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2008-02-05 15:24:31
mikkel
Member
+383|7030

Ollie wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Ollie wrote:


I wouldn't have said so. We were mostly discussing the reasons why cannabis is illigal, and why it should be legal. Lets not be pedantic.
Pedantic? This discussion is about the legalisation of cannabis, the legalisation of consuming an intoxicating substance. If that doesn't deal with freedom of choice, I don't know what does. I wouldn't say it's pedantic to keep track of the discussion.

I would, however, say that it's entirely unproductive to cite the premise of a discussion as a resting argument. There's no sense in bringing us full circle. Do you have any comments to my previous reply?
What I was getting at was this: It should be out choice whether we consume those intoxicating substances. The government shouldn't be telling us what we can eat, smoke, drink or inject. It should be our choice. More problems come from prohibition than would come about if thse currently illigal substances were safely controlled and people we're taught the dangers and benefits without any bias. Within reason, I definitely wouldn't advocate the legalisation of things like meth or heroin. However, having said that most of the deaths from these substances come from uneducated abusers, dirty needles or paraphernalia and the chemicals being cut with harmful substances. These risks would be all but wiped out if drugs and paraphernalia were freely available from legitimate sources.

I know this is a pretty far out opinion for a discus ion about the legality of marijuana but I needed to put it out there.

Now, you might just think I'm speaking as a "typical" druggie and just want to get my fix easier. But to be honest the majority of the substances out there I wouldn't dream of touching.

It just seems silly that a seemingly innocuous plant like hemp should be illegal when much more dangerous products are freely available, such as alcohol and caffeine.
Well, see, here you have a case of contradiction. You seem to have been arguing exclusively from an opinion that there should be no legislation regarding what you can consume, yet you still advocate legislation against consuming certain substances that you don't agree with yourself.

You may have your reasons for supporting one thing, and not another, but it's still an arbitrary limitation on substance ingestion dictated by your morals and opinions, which brings us right back to the question of where the limit goes, and back to a reality where a majority of people still feel that cannabis exceeds that limit. What we should and shouldn't do is typically decided by the majority in a democracy, and whether you like it or not, you simply have to yield.
2008-02-05 15:30:13
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

mikkel wrote:

You may have your reasons for supporting one thing, and not another, but it's still an arbitrary limitation on substance ingestion dictated by your morals and opinions, which brings us right back to the question of where the limit goes, and back to a reality where a majority of people still feel that cannabis exceeds that limit. What we should and shouldn't do is typically decided by the majority in a democracy, and whether you like it or not, you simply have to yield.
It IS an arbitrary value-judgement.  However, do you really think there is a majority of people that still feel that way (cannabis should be illegal)?  Do you agree that media hype and moral-based agendas have fueled opinion regarding that supposed public perception?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-05 15:30:49)

2008-02-05 15:33:34
Ollie
Formerly known as Larkin
+215|6413|Halifax, West Yorkshire

mikkel wrote:

Ollie wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Pedantic? This discussion is about the legalisation of cannabis, the legalisation of consuming an intoxicating substance. If that doesn't deal with freedom of choice, I don't know what does. I wouldn't say it's pedantic to keep track of the discussion.

I would, however, say that it's entirely unproductive to cite the premise of a discussion as a resting argument. There's no sense in bringing us full circle. Do you have any comments to my previous reply?
What I was getting at was this: It should be out choice whether we consume those intoxicating substances. The government shouldn't be telling us what we can eat, smoke, drink or inject. It should be our choice. More problems come from prohibition than would come about if thse currently illigal substances were safely controlled and people we're taught the dangers and benefits without any bias. Within reason, I definitely wouldn't advocate the legalisation of things like meth or heroin. However, having said that most of the deaths from these substances come from uneducated abusers, dirty needles or paraphernalia and the chemicals being cut with harmful substances. These risks would be all but wiped out if drugs and paraphernalia were freely available from legitimate sources.

I know this is a pretty far out opinion for a discus ion about the legality of marijuana but I needed to put it out there.

Now, you might just think I'm speaking as a "typical" druggie and just want to get my fix easier. But to be honest the majority of the substances out there I wouldn't dream of touching.

It just seems silly that a seemingly innocuous plant like hemp should be illegal when much more dangerous products are freely available, such as alcohol and caffeine.
Well, see, here you have a case of contradiction. You seem to have been arguing exclusively from an opinion that there should be no legislation regarding what you can consume, yet you still advocate legislation against consuming certain substances that you don't agree with yourself.

You may have your reasons for supporting one thing, and not another, but it's still an arbitrary limitation on substance ingestion dictated by your morals and opinions, which brings us right back to the question of where the limit goes, and back to a reality where a majority of people still feel that cannabis exceeds that limit. What we should and shouldn't do is typically decided by the majority in a democracy, and whether you like it or not, you simply have to yield.
I was giving my opinion on how I believe it should be, all drugs should be freely and legally available for use, thats not to say I would use them all. As I said, I certainly wouldn't advocate heroin use, but others would. Theres plenty of others I wouldn't adovcate the use of but my belief is that it should be freedom of choice. If someone wants to mainline smack into their arm, let them...but I wouldn't do it. Theres no contradiction there.

Anyway, I'm off to bed pretty tired. I'll check back on this thread tommorow.

EDIT: Oh, and I also realise that the chances of all drugs being legalised are a million to one, but this isn't going to stop me and millions of others using them, and therein lies the problem.

Last edited by Ollie (2008-02-05 15:36:44)

2008-02-05 15:51:57
mikkel
Member
+383|7030

Ollie wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Ollie wrote:


What I was getting at was this: It should be out choice whether we consume those intoxicating substances. The government shouldn't be telling us what we can eat, smoke, drink or inject. It should be our choice. More problems come from prohibition than would come about if thse currently illigal substances were safely controlled and people we're taught the dangers and benefits without any bias. Within reason, I definitely wouldn't advocate the legalisation of things like meth or heroin. However, having said that most of the deaths from these substances come from uneducated abusers, dirty needles or paraphernalia and the chemicals being cut with harmful substances. These risks would be all but wiped out if drugs and paraphernalia were freely available from legitimate sources.

I know this is a pretty far out opinion for a discus ion about the legality of marijuana but I needed to put it out there.

Now, you might just think I'm speaking as a "typical" druggie and just want to get my fix easier. But to be honest the majority of the substances out there I wouldn't dream of touching.

It just seems silly that a seemingly innocuous plant like hemp should be illegal when much more dangerous products are freely available, such as alcohol and caffeine.
Well, see, here you have a case of contradiction. You seem to have been arguing exclusively from an opinion that there should be no legislation regarding what you can consume, yet you still advocate legislation against consuming certain substances that you don't agree with yourself.

You may have your reasons for supporting one thing, and not another, but it's still an arbitrary limitation on substance ingestion dictated by your morals and opinions, which brings us right back to the question of where the limit goes, and back to a reality where a majority of people still feel that cannabis exceeds that limit. What we should and shouldn't do is typically decided by the majority in a democracy, and whether you like it or not, you simply have to yield.
I was giving my opinion on how I believe it should be, all drugs should be freely and legally available for use, thats not to say I would use them all. As I said, I certainly wouldn't advocate heroin use, but others would. Theres plenty of others I wouldn't adovcate the use of but my belief is that it should be freedom of choice. If someone wants to mainline smack into their arm, let them...but I wouldn't do it. Theres no contradiction there.

Anyway, I'm off to bed pretty tired. I'll check back on this thread tommorow.

EDIT: Oh, and I also realise that the chances of all drugs being legalised are a million to one, but this isn't going to stop me and millions of others using them, and therein lies the problem.
The contradiction lies in you stating in your previous post that you wouldn't advocate the legalisation of harder drugs, whereas in your latest post, you've changed that to simply not condoning the use of these. That's a pretty sharp contrast.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

mikkel wrote:

You may have your reasons for supporting one thing, and not another, but it's still an arbitrary limitation on substance ingestion dictated by your morals and opinions, which brings us right back to the question of where the limit goes, and back to a reality where a majority of people still feel that cannabis exceeds that limit. What we should and shouldn't do is typically decided by the majority in a democracy, and whether you like it or not, you simply have to yield.
It IS an arbitrary value-judgement.  However, do you really think there is a majority of people that still feel that way (cannabis should be illegal)?  Do you agree that media hype and moral-based agendas have fueled opinion regarding that supposed public perception?
Oh, absolutely. The media influences everything, but I feel that it goes both ways. The basis for believing that a majority supports the criminalisation of cannabis, excluding first-hand perception, is likely main-stream media, but the basis for believing that a majority supports the legalisation of cannabis, again excluding first-hand perception, is a campaign made very visible using the very same media. As the recent example of Ron Paul's election campaign showed us, creative use of media can make support for any cause seem a lot bigger than it really is.

Naturally, I can only comment on what I see in my everyday life, and whenever the subject has come up, I've always experienced an overwhelming support for keeping cannabis illegal. I firmly believe that the majority are against the legalisation of cannabis.
2008-02-05 16:13:19
MysteryJake
Member
+12|6637|California
If a woman has the choice to abort a baby then why can't I smoke a bowl every once in a while?
Sure there are reasons to legitimately abort a baby(ie. Rape, incest) just as there are reasons to legitimately smoke marijuana(ie. Glaucoma, Cancer patient). But the fact sill remains that a woman can abort a baby, take another persons life, even if she knew full and well the possible consequences of her actions when she engaged in sexual activity. I'm not even allowed to potentially do harm to myself but others have the authority to take another persons life, what kind of shit is this.
2008-02-05 16:25:20
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6979|CH/BR - in UK

MysteryJake wrote:

If a woman has the choice to abort a baby then why can't I smoke a bowl every once in a while?
Sure there are reasons to legitimately abort a baby(ie. Rape, incest) just as there are reasons to legitimately smoke marijuana(ie. Glaucoma, Cancer patient). But the fact sill remains that a woman can abort a baby, take another persons life, even if she knew full and well the possible consequences of her actions when she engaged in sexual activity. I'm not even allowed to potentially do harm to myself but others have the authority to take another persons life, what kind of shit is this.
That's a different discussion altogether. I don't see a fetus as a human being, so your argument makes no sense to me.

-konfusion
2008-02-05 16:32:58
aimless
Member
+166|6554|Texas
One of my old high school professors was comparing the outlawing of marijuana to the prohibition. How it would all eventually become legal one day.
2008-02-05 16:33:40
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

konfusion wrote:

MysteryJake wrote:

If a woman has the choice to abort a baby then why can't I smoke a bowl every once in a while?
Sure there are reasons to legitimately abort a baby(ie. Rape, incest) just as there are reasons to legitimately smoke marijuana(ie. Glaucoma, Cancer patient). But the fact sill remains that a woman can abort a baby, take another persons life, even if she knew full and well the possible consequences of her actions when she engaged in sexual activity. I'm not even allowed to potentially do harm to myself but others have the authority to take another persons life, what kind of shit is this.
That's a different discussion altogether. I don't see a fetus as a human being, so your argument makes no sense to me.

-konfusion
rofl, wow. hes making the argument of civil liberties, which i see as the best argument so far.

answer it though, why can a woman kill a baby, but we cant put a smoke in our bodies which doesnt affect anyone else?
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2008-02-05 16:34:52
geNius
..!.,
+144|6871|SoCal

usmarine wrote:

...they want to make it a more serious crime. 

"Senior police officers are to tell government advisers that cannabis should be upgraded from a Class C to a more dangerous Class B drug."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7227651.stm

I am not sure what to think of this.  There is a big movement in the US to relax pot crime punishment.  Yet it seems a country where the punishment was not as strict as it is here, wants it to be tougher.
Generating revenue is the basis for most drug enforcement laws; the heavier the punishment, the stiffer the fines.
https://srejects.com/genius/srejects.png
2008-02-05 16:39:31
Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6558|817---->907
coffee and donuts for everyone
2008-02-05 16:42:20
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6909|Somewhere else



how I feel pretty much
2008-02-05 16:47:28
topthrill05
Member
+125|7007|Rochester NY USA
In regards to legalization in the US, I am 100% for it. How do we allow alcohol but not pot? When in my experence alcohol has been much much worse. The fact is and I believe someone has already stated this, but the only real reasons it isn't legal is because of misconceptions, political suicide and the government realizing they are totally wrong.

But NO I am not for legalizing anything further up the totem pole, do we really want heroin on store shelves? No of coarse not.
2008-02-05 16:54:18
Ollie
Formerly known as Larkin
+215|6413|Halifax, West Yorkshire

mikkel wrote:

The contradiction lies in you stating in your previous post that you wouldn't advocate the legalisation of harder drugs, whereas in your latest post, you've changed that to simply not condoning the use of these. That's a pretty sharp contrast.
Sorry about that, it was a slip of the keyboard. What I meant was I myself wouldn't do these drugs but I believe that everyone should have the right to use them.

Can I ask you why you think marijuana should stay illigal?

...and yeah, I'm back. Couldn't sleep.
2008-02-05 17:34:15
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA
its ridiculous to restrict what i can do to myself. -.-
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2008-02-05 17:42:47
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|7146|Riva, MD

Locoloki wrote:

usmarine wrote:

...they want to make it a more serious crime. 

"Senior police officers are to tell government advisers that cannabis should be upgraded from a Class C to a more dangerous Class B drug."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7227651.stm

I am not sure what to think of this.  There is a big movement in the US to relax pot crime punishment.  Yet it seems a country where the punishment was not as strict as it is here, wants it to be tougher.
ghey, its not like anyone ever od'd on weed
You would have to smoke 3 times your weight in pot to OD on it, or so I hear.
2008-02-05 17:44:55
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

_j5689_ wrote:

Locoloki wrote:

usmarine wrote:

...they want to make it a more serious crime. 

"Senior police officers are to tell government advisers that cannabis should be upgraded from a Class C to a more dangerous Class B drug."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7227651.stm

I am not sure what to think of this.  There is a big movement in the US to relax pot crime punishment.  Yet it seems a country where the punishment was not as strict as it is here, wants it to be tougher.
ghey, its not like anyone ever od'd on weed
You would have to smoke 3 times your weight in pot to OD on it, or so I hear.
nah, lol, like 3 pounds of like mids or regular weed.

but i heard in the UK some kid had a mild overdose on some like, top shelf shit, smoked like 3 or 4 ounces in blunts or joints or something and he had a mild od.

or so i heard ^^
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2008-02-05 18:29:14
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7258|Grapevine, TX
If you od on pot you go to sleep, pretty much where ever you last sat down at -.-
2008-02-05 18:35:39
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

Des.Kmal wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Locoloki wrote:


ghey, its not like anyone ever od'd on weed
You would have to smoke 3 times your weight in pot to OD on it, or so I hear.
nah, lol, like 3 pounds of like mids or regular weed.

but i heard in the UK some kid had a mild overdose on some like, top shelf shit, smoked like 3 or 4 ounces in blunts or joints or something and he had a mild od.

or so i heard ^^
I heard one time someone took acid and turned into a glass of orange juice and couldn't fall over or else he'd be dead.

What is a "mild od"?  You only get half as hungry?  Only one eye becomes glossy?  Think about that for a second.

Your lungs wouldn't be able to handle the amount of pot it would take to smoke 'til you OD.  You could theoretically concentrate THC into a liquid and inject it to OD though, or plausibly swallow a concentrated amount and OD.
2008-02-05 19:26:15
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:


You would have to smoke 3 times your weight in pot to OD on it, or so I hear.
nah, lol, like 3 pounds of like mids or regular weed.

but i heard in the UK some kid had a mild overdose on some like, top shelf shit, smoked like 3 or 4 ounces in blunts or joints or something and he had a mild od.

or so i heard ^^
I heard one time someone took acid and turned into a glass of orange juice and couldn't fall over or else he'd be dead.

What is a "mild od"?  You only get half as hungry?  Only one eye becomes glossy?  Think about that for a second.

Your lungs wouldn't be able to handle the amount of pot it would take to smoke 'til you OD.  You could theoretically concentrate THC into a liquid and inject it to OD though, or plausibly swallow a concentrated amount and OD.
yeah, i heard about that too, wasnt he in a hospital? i definately remember that. lol. 

i also remember this shit called angel trumpet, very popular in my dads town in louisiana, baton rouge, and this kid thought his arm was a roast beef sandwich and ate part of it off and lost most of his blood. i rofl'd.

anyway, u can OD on something and die, or u can OD on something and have a seizure or something. there are levels son.

yeah, probably, idk, maybe this kid smoked a shit load and ate some in brownies or cakes and drank some weed tea. ooohhh!!! im gonna try that. lmfao
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2008-02-05 19:31:41
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

Des.Kmal wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I heard one time someone took acid and turned into a glass of orange juice and couldn't fall over or else he'd be dead.

What is a "mild od"?  You only get half as hungry?  Only one eye becomes glossy?  Think about that for a second.

Your lungs wouldn't be able to handle the amount of pot it would take to smoke 'til you OD.  You could theoretically concentrate THC into a liquid and inject it to OD though, or plausibly swallow a concentrated amount and OD.
yeah, i heard about that too, wasnt he in a hospital? i definately remember that. lol. 

i also remember this shit called angel trumpet, very popular in my dads town in louisiana, baton rouge, and this kid thought his arm was a roast beef sandwich and ate part of it off and lost most of his blood. i rofl'd.

anyway, u can OD on something and die, or u can OD on something and have a seizure or something. there are levels son.

yeah, probably, idk, maybe this kid smoked a shit load and ate some in brownies or cakes and drank some weed tea. ooohhh!!! im gonna try that. lmfao
Angel Trumpet is "hells bells" or "Belladonna" or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DaturaStramonium-plant-sm.jpg

There are variations too.  The ones I took were off a bush.  I will never take anything like that again, or condone it.  It quite literally could make you insane.

The story I said about the glass of OJ is just an example of bullshit urban myths that go follow stoner/hippy culture.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-05 19:37:17)

2008-02-05 19:32:51
trackstarr
Member
+18|7131|Swing and a miss
Alcohol causes way more problems then weed tbh
2008-02-05 19:36:49
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

ken jenningslol wrote:

Angel Trumpet is "hells bells" or "Belladonna" or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Datu … ant-sm.jpg

There are variations too.  The ones I took were off a bush.  I will never take anything like that again, or condone it.  It quite literally could make you insane.

The story I said is just an example of bullshit urban myths that go follow stoner/hippy culture.
that shit is bad. lmfao, u boil the seeds or some shit i think, then eat them iirc.

i couldnt follow u. what were u trying to say in the last line?
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2008-02-05 19:39:13
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

Des.Kmal wrote:

ken jenningslol wrote:

Angel Trumpet is "hells bells" or "Belladonna" or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Datu … ant-sm.jpg

There are variations too.  The ones I took were off a bush.  I will never take anything like that again, or condone it.  It quite literally could make you insane.

The story I said is just an example of bullshit urban myths that go follow stoner/hippy culture.
that shit is bad. lmfao, u boil the seeds or some shit i think, then eat them iirc.

i couldnt follow u. what were u trying to say in the last line?
About the dude and glass of OJ.  Bullshit urban myth.

The belladonnas I had were crushed and boiled.  I have never experienced anything like it to this day.  It is like a psychotic episode I think.  I remember nothing about the trip, and only remember what my friends told me later.
2008-02-05 19:42:03
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7047|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

ken jenningslol wrote:

Angel Trumpet is "hells bells" or "Belladonna" or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Datu … ant-sm.jpg

There are variations too.  The ones I took were off a bush.  I will never take anything like that again, or condone it.  It quite literally could make you insane.

The story I said is just an example of bullshit urban myths that go follow stoner/hippy culture.
that shit is bad. lmfao, u boil the seeds or some shit i think, then eat them iirc.

i couldnt follow u. what were u trying to say in the last line?
About the dude and glass of OJ.  Bullshit urban myth.

The belladonnas I had were crushed and boiled.  I have never experienced anything like it to this day.  It is like a psychotic episode I think.  I remember nothing about the trip, and only remember what my friends told me later.
hm.. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/orange.asp  yep, i heard that exact story lmao.

anyway, yeah, that angel trumpet is bad, kids were getting fucked up ALL over louisiana, it was an "epidemic" last summer lol.
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2008-02-05 19:57:45
ig
This topic seems to have no actual posts
+1,199|6951

Des.Kmal wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:


that shit is bad. lmfao, u boil the seeds or some shit i think, then eat them iirc.

i couldnt follow u. what were u trying to say in the last line?
About the dude and glass of OJ.  Bullshit urban myth.

The belladonnas I had were crushed and boiled.  I have never experienced anything like it to this day.  It is like a psychotic episode I think.  I remember nothing about the trip, and only remember what my friends told me later.
hm.. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/orange.asp  yep, i heard that exact story lmao.

anyway, yeah, that angel trumpet is bad, kids were getting fucked up ALL over louisiana, it was an "epidemic" last summer lol.
my friend went nuts on acid when we were down in the keys a few years ago. he thought he was a fish, so he decided to take all his clothes off and kept trying to jump in the canal. we had to block all of the doors so he wouldn't run outside and fuck himself up. worst night of my life...

 

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