Penetrator
Certified Twat
+296|6936|Bournemouth, South England
From Daily Telegraph:

It seems strange that so few people are making a fuss about the fact that local authorities in Britain have, for the past 10 years or so, been resurfacing roads with a material that is so lethally slippery that its use is banned elsewhere. One of the ingredients of this material, Stone Mastic Asphalt (SMA), is an oil-based substance that remains slippery until it is worn off the surface of the road by the passage of traffic. How long this takes depends on the amount and weight of traffic using the road. It can take up to two years - or, in the case of the strip between the wheel tracks of four-wheeled vehicles, where motorcyclists can be expected to ride, never.

   
Hidden menace? Roads surfaced with SMA can be dangerously slippery
In a reply to a petition to the Prime Minister to have SMA banned in this country, it was admitted that the Highways Agency had, in the early 1990s, conducted trials but "decided not to continue its use following concerns regarding skid resistance". Later in that decade, the Government apparently decided it knew better than the experts and reversed this decision.

The BBC then aired a number of programmes drawing attention to "the hidden menace on Britain's roads" and the Transport Research Laboratory carried out another investigation into SMA, concluding, among other things, that "dry friction on new asphalt can be lower... by up to 30-40 per cent at intermediate and higher speeds", and also that, "at very low speeds, wet friction can exceed dry friction" (ie, it is less slippery when wet than when dry). Believe it or not, one of the recommendations was that a warning about newly laid road surfaces should be included in the Highway Code, which suggests the TRL recognised there was a problem but was not confident the Government would do anything about it other than issuing advice.

I have first-hand experience of the dangers of SMA. As a 70-year-old retired police inspector who has ridden motorcycles for 54 years, I am an experienced rider. But just before noon on a sunny day in November 2006, I was riding a Moto Guzzi Breva 750 at about 45mph along an almost deserted A1244 in Essex when a car some distance ahead indicated to turn right. I reached for the brake lever to check my speed slightly, and a split second later found myself bouncing along the road, sans motorcycle. I broke my left wrist so badly that I was kept in hospital for four days. A police officer who attended the scene could find no sign of gravel or diesel, but said the road surface "felt greasy". It had been resurfaced six months previously with SMA.

I have since learnt of a number of instances where vehicles have gone out of control on SMA, sometimes with fatal consequences. The British Horse Society has succeeded in having several stretches of SMA-surfaced roads treated with quartzite grit, because horses were losing their footing on it.

SMA has a few properties that would appeal to local authorities - it is cheap and quick to lay - but does this justify being so reckless about the safety of road users?

Here


This is really bad, the local councils rant and rave about safer driving, but then go and throw this crap onto the roads, making it more of a case of when you crash, not if!
Bull3t
stephen brule
+83|6730
so the road is still slippery even though dried?
Penetrator
Certified Twat
+296|6936|Bournemouth, South England
Yeah, it seeps an oily substance for years.  Seeing as motorbikes don't follow the usual tyre tracks of other vehicles, it may never full wear away.
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|7083

Hooray! Another instance of dumbass politicians going against intelligent, research-backed engineers and scientists!

Hopefully they fix those roads and do things right. I guess citizens' lives aren't worth the amount of money they save by going with the cheap, unsafe gravel
Bull3t
stephen brule
+83|6730

Penetrator wrote:

Yeah, it seeps an oily substance for years.  Seeing as motorbikes don't follow the usual tyre tracks of other vehicles, it may never full wear away.
most car tires have treads in which case bikes do have treads but not enough to wear and tear the oil?
Tehremos
Parcel of ol' Crams
+128|6836|Somersetshire
welcome to the UK, a place full of hidden dangers, not like those more traditional countries like America, where everyone knows guns are a danger lol
Penetrator
Certified Twat
+296|6936|Bournemouth, South England
The bike will tend to ride in the centre of the lane, where a cars wheelbase would sit towards either edge of the lane.  Plus there are many more cars over here, so the areas commonly used by cars and lorries will stop secreting oils many years before the centre areas will.
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|7145|Riva, MD
Not to mention you can be all over the lane if you're on a bike so there's still gonna be oil on some part of it no matter how much time goes by.  The center of the lane isn't as well defined as the sides that you would drive a car on many times over on the exact same spot.
mcgid1
Meh...
+129|7145|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX

Bull3t wrote:

Penetrator wrote:

Yeah, it seeps an oily substance for years.  Seeing as motorbikes don't follow the usual tyre tracks of other vehicles, it may never full wear away.
most car tires have treads in which case bikes do have treads but not enough to wear and tear the oil?
The article seems to say that even though the bikes have tire treads, there are not enough bikes on the road to completely wear away the substance.  I would also think the fact that a bike is significantly lighter than a car would have something to do with the bike's ability to wear away this substance.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Maybe lawyers struck a deal with the U.K.'s transportation ministry....
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6534|eXtreme to the maX
I don't know, motorcyclists are real whingers.
I saw a motorcyclist overtake on a blind bend in pouring rain, find himself in the path of an oncoming car, panic and let go of his bike which slid down the road and hit the - now stationary - car. He landed on the tarmac breaking his arm.
He spent the time waiting for the ambulance griping about the quality of the roads and the quality of his tires.
My friends who are bikers think the roads are their personal playground.

If you don't want to die buy a car.
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6839|'Murka

You could make the same argument about the douchebags who "pimp out" their POS cars and race on the streets...endangering and often killing others. At least with a motorcycle, you're only likely to endanger/kill yourself with your stupidity.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6534|eXtreme to the maX
You could make the same argument about the douchebags who "pimp out" their POS cars and race on the streets...endangering and often killing others. At least with a motorcycle, you're only likely to endanger/kill yourself with your stupidity.
Generally speaking yes, but having a motorcyle fly through your windshield is no laughing matter.
Agreed on micro-dick street racers - car or bike.

The OP was about motorcyclists complaining about increased risk of injury to themselves.
If you don't want to get hurt I would suggest:
- Don't ride a bike
- Don't belt around just for fun - go to a track where they will have good tarmac and few diesel spills.

Still, the bulk of motorcycle accidents involve no other vehicle so maybe you're part right - for once

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-02-13 04:10:43)

Fuck Israel
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6928|so randum
Motorcyclists often make the best drivers - they have to be so much aware.

Personally i want a motorbike, for financial and fun reasons, and i wasnt aware of this road surface thing, certainly made me think.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
{HMS}_Sir_Del_Boy
Member
+69|7137|th3 unkn0wn

FatherTed wrote:

Motorcyclists often make the best drivers - they have to be so much aware.

Personally i want a motorbike, for financial and fun reasons, and i wasnt aware of this road surface thing, certainly made me think.
If in doubt get a tricycle from Fisher Price. It's a financially sound idea and you'll have loads of fun
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6839|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Still, the bulk of motorcycle accidents involve no other vehicle so maybe you're part right - for once
I don't know about the UK, but the bulk of serious injury/fatal motorcycle accidents in the US are the result of four-wheeled vehicles "not seeing" the motorcyclist. Being a former rider myself, I'm in full agreement with Ted.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Locoloki
I got Mug 222 at Gritty's!!!!
+216|7068|Your moms bedroom

Dilbert_X wrote:

My friends who are bikers think the roads are their personal playground.

If you don't want to die buy a car.
I have 4-5 friends all ride hi-powered top end bikes, they all wanted me to take my car and videotape them doing wheelies on the highway at 75 mph

Last edited by Locoloki (2008-02-13 04:54:13)

13rin
Member
+977|6907

Dilbert_X wrote:

You could make the same argument about the douchebags who "pimp out" their POS cars and race on the streets...endangering and often killing others. At least with a motorcycle, you're only likely to endanger/kill yourself with your stupidity.
Generally speaking yes, but having a motorcyle fly through your windshield is no laughing matter.
Agreed on micro-dick street racers - car or bike.

The OP was about motorcyclists complaining about increased risk of injury to themselves.
If you don't want to get hurt I would suggest:
- Don't ride a bike
- Don't belt around just for fun - go to a track where they will have good tarmac and few diesel spills.

Still, the bulk of motorcycle accidents involve no other vehicle so maybe you're part right - for once
The government has a responsibility to protect their citizens.  In this instance they should have provided reasonable road surfaces to all drivers, not just cars.   By surfacing the roads with this particular type of  material, the government has overlooked/ignored a segment of the mobile populous.  That incident described in the OP happened to a retired law enforcement officer with decades of experience on a motorcycle achieved through responsible operation, not some asshole doing reckless shit on a motorcycle.  Motorcycles are more dangerous than cars, but your logic is flawed for both vehicles have the same right to be on the same road.  I wonder if instead of Princess Diane dying on a Paris road, if she had died in England on a road surfaced with the shit the OP is writing about -what do you think the outcry would have been?

*edit: speeling

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-02-13 05:12:49)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
{HMS}_Sir_Del_Boy
Member
+69|7137|th3 unkn0wn

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

You could make the same argument about the douchebags who "pimp out" their POS cars and race on the streets...endangering and often killing others. At least with a motorcycle, you're only likely to endanger/kill yourself with your stupidity.
Generally speaking yes, but having a motorcyle fly through your windshield is no laughing matter.
Agreed on micro-dick street racers - car or bike.

The OP was about motorcyclists complaining about increased risk of injury to themselves.
If you don't want to get hurt I would suggest:
- Don't ride a bike
- Don't belt around just for fun - go to a track where they will have good tarmac and few diesel spills.

Still, the bulk of motorcycle accidents involve no other vehicle so maybe you're part right - for once
I wonder if instead of Princess Diane dying on a Paris road, if she had died in England on a road surfaced with the shit the OP is writing about -what do you think the outcry would have been?

*edit: speeling
Princess Diana died because she wosn't wearing her crash helmet. Nuff said
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6875|Chicago, IL
Alright England, time to buy every chav a motorcycle with greased wheels.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6534|eXtreme to the maX
The government has a responsibility to protect their citizens.  In this instance they should have provided reasonable road surfaces to all drivers, not just cars.
OK, so it sucks having crap tarmac - I agree, I was trying to wind people up TBH.
Sorry, I have spent a lot of time listening to dreary motorcycle bores blaming the whole world but themselves for their problems and conversely how fast they've managed to get from A to B and gone around corners X, Y and Z though.

That incident described in the OP happened to a retired law enforcement officer with decades of experience on a motorcycle
They're more FOS than anyone else on earth in my direct experience, on almost every subject you can think of.
A senior police officer, with responsibility for road safety, once advised me: If I thought I was about to have a collision not to brake - so skidmarks couldn't be measured. What a dick.
Fuck Israel
13rin
Member
+977|6907

Dilbert_X wrote:

The government has a responsibility to protect their citizens.  In this instance they should have provided reasonable road surfaces to all drivers, not just cars.
OK, so it sucks having crap tarmac - I agree, I was trying to wind people up TBH.
Sorry, I have spent a lot of time listening to dreary motorcycle bores blaming the whole world but themselves for their problems and conversely how fast they've managed to get from A to B and gone around corners X, Y and Z though.
That's cool.  I get pissed off at poor quality roads too.  The county in the state I live in has the highest taxes (in the state) and some of the shittiest services & roads.

I'd tell the biker boys to piss off when they start telling their stories.  They really don't impress anyone except other dickhead riders with their recklessly irresponsible antics. They should feel pretty lucky every time they get off their bike alive in one piece without hurting anyone else.


Dilbert_X wrote:

That incident described in the OP happened to a retired law enforcement officer with decades of experience on a motorcycle
They're more FOS than anyone else on earth in my direct experience, on almost every subject you can think of.
A senior police officer, with responsibility for road safety, once advised me: If I thought I was about to have a collision not to brake - so skidmarks couldn't be measured. What a dick.
Yea, I agree that's a pretty inappropriate thing to say.  I'm sorry that your experiences with law enforcement have left you with a negative opinion of them, but I don't doubt the author of the article - there appears to be factual supporting data.

Oh, I ride too... My bike?  Harley Davidson 2008 Nightster.  I don't speed around though...

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/DBBrinson/bike.jpg
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

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