PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Nappy wrote:

lol @ the dumb fucks that say "bans on guns arent going to do shit, look at australia"

when was the last time we had a shooting?

the last one i know of wasnt a gun, it was a crossbow. and that was like 7 years ago, and it was in the leg
At what cost.. GG

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=15304
The cost of having a third of the US homicide rate.
The cost of having a tenth of the firerms homicide rate of the US.

Poor them...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g … 00-000-pop
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

Kmarion wrote:

Nappy wrote:

lol @ the dumb fucks that say "bans on guns arent going to do shit, look at australia"

when was the last time we had a shooting?

the last one i know of wasnt a gun, it was a crossbow. and that was like 7 years ago, and it was in the leg
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&am … 1130796263
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009268780
http://news.theage.com.au/trio-get-45-y … -1hjy.html

well... you asked.
lulz...stupid fucking statements on a video game forum.  Why even bother Kmarion?  Just let people have their heads up their asses.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

PureFodder wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Nappy wrote:

lol @ the dumb fucks that say "bans on guns arent going to do shit, look at australia"

when was the last time we had a shooting?

the last one i know of wasnt a gun, it was a crossbow. and that was like 7 years ago, and it was in the leg
At what cost.. GG

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=15304
The cost of having a third of the US homicide rate.
The cost of having a tenth of the firerms homicide rate of the US.

Poor them...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g … 00-000-pop
nationmaster = phail
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6997|Mountains of NC

now they have given a face and a name to the killer

https://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/NIU4.jpg


I don't think they should do this ....... all its giving is fame to the killer that other fucked up people want
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

SEREMAKER wrote:

now they have given a face and a name to the killer

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/NIU4.jpg


I don't think they should do this ....... all its giving is fame to the killer that other fucked up people want
How long has that dude lived in the US?  He looks like a regular Russian Navy sailor.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6764|Oregon
To be very honest, I think that some of the right-wingers here have kinda swayed my view on gun control. I have to think that controlling guns would have minimal effect.
The best thing we as people can do is to be compassionate towards all other people.
Hope_is_lost117
Psy squad
+49|6425|Belgium
Don't Miss

    * WQAD: See local coverage of shooting
    * WLS: More local coverage of shooting
Kind of lucky us, in Belgium I haven't heard of any school shootings, just racially motivated , not that that is better...
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California
Be nice if someone would think of an actual solution..since gun control didn't work (most campuses like this are "gun-free" zones! lol).

On a gun forum i frequent, the topic of school shootings had some good suggestions.  My input was that there should be something in place like on airplanes...plainclothes armed guards mixed in.  Uniformed armed guards would be stupid since they'd be easy targets...yet still deterrents.  If it were known on campus (policy made public) that there were such armed guards mixed in, it would immediately reduce the likelyhood of a brazen shootout...because yes, an armed population is a polite one.  You don't see these shootings in areas where people conceal carry..at all!

Another alternative I suggested was to offer teachers CCW permits and training..even specific crisis training for their environment.  OBviously they would be voluntary..and be paid some type of hazard stipend.  Of course such a volunteer CCW teacher would not be able to divulge their CCW status, or ever let students know they'd be armed..so they'd have to conceal it pretty good.  And with the reality that a campus has volunteer armed teachers...well you can guess the likelyhood of such shootings would plummet.

People, "gun-free" zones have the OPPOSITE effect that are intended by them.  Just think about it.  Think about the opportunistic shooter.  They have access to a gun, either their own (rarely), or from someone they know (fault is with that person for not securing said weapons).  They are at the bottom of their ropes, are attention starved like usmarine, and they have a need to be seen and "go out with a bang."  Their motive is usually to kill those who made fun of them, broke up with them, or otherwise general slaughter of innocents for the media attention.  Their success depends on there being no guns on campus for at least a few minutes (cops arriving).  If that perception was missing, they would know their success would be shortened or stopped completely...then they'd go to a mall or just go home and kill themselves.

In short, arming trained, responsive, reliable people (CCW holders) is a much better answer than trying to stem the tide of gun proliferation, gun modifications (microstamping), doing pretty much anything the Brady's think is helpful, etc.  If there aren't such shootouts among armed people, then there is no more debate about this topic...gun control advocates have NEVER been right, and likely never will be.


djphetal wrote:

To be very honest, I think that some of the right-wingers here have kinda swayed my view on gun control. I have to think that controlling guns would have minimal effect.
The best thing we as people can do is to be compassionate towards all other people.
Not to be rude, and this not pointed just at you, but to EVERY ignorant person on this message board that throws around "left-wing" "right-wing" "liberal" "neocon" labels based loosely on such topics.  This has nothing to do with political leaning.  I"m a liberal, as are many gun owners who understand this basic topic of gun "safety."  There's often topics on here where someone will say "liberal media" or something stupid and it doesn't even apply or have an ounce of veracity to it.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-15 10:54:36)

apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6959|The lunar module

IRONCHEF wrote:

Think about the opportunistic shooter.  They have access to a gun, either their own (rarely), or from someone they know (fault is with that person for not securing said weapons).  They are at the bottom of their ropes, are attention starved like usmarine, and they have a need to be seen and "go out with a bang."  Their motive is usually to kill those who made fun of them, broke up with them, or otherwise general slaughter of innocents for the media attention.
Remove the access to a gun, and they cannot go out with a bang. No?
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6823|The Gem Saloon

apollo_fi wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Think about the opportunistic shooter.  They have access to a gun, either their own (rarely), or from someone they know (fault is with that person for not securing said weapons).  They are at the bottom of their ropes, are attention starved like usmarine, and they have a need to be seen and "go out with a bang."  Their motive is usually to kill those who made fun of them, broke up with them, or otherwise general slaughter of innocents for the media attention.
Remove the access to a gun, and they cannot go out with a bang. No?
this is something that most people dont seem to get.

where the US is today, regarding the gun issue, would NOT allow for all the guns to be collected up so NO ONE has access to them.


so, propose how every citizen in this country would be willing to turn in all of the guns they own.
oh, but by the way, we cant promise that the criminals wont have them.....JUST the people that follow the laws.
no thanks bro....as long as bad people can arm themselves in this country, i will also.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California
Precisely.  Getting rid of access to a gun is about as likely or effective as deporting 12 million mexicans back to mexico.  And yes, they'll come back.

And even if you did get rid of all guns, then there'd be "school machete attacks" instead of school shootings.  Hell, there might be a new sword revolution with dual katana wielding psychos.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-15 11:23:30)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

usmarine wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The cost of having a third of the US homicide rate.
The cost of having a tenth of the firerms homicide rate of the US.

Poor them...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g … 00-000-pop
nationmaster = phail
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses … urder.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html
Australia has a third of Americas homicide rate or is the FBI phail too?
It also shows that the homicide rate in Australia has been falling.

Last edited by PureFodder (2008-02-15 11:23:18)

IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California

PureFodder wrote:

usmarine wrote:

PureFodder wrote:


The cost of having a third of the US homicide rate.
The cost of having a tenth of the firerms homicide rate of the US.

Poor them...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g … 00-000-pop
nationmaster = phail
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses … urder.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html
Australia has a third of Americas homicide rate or is the FBI phail too?
It also shows that the homicide rate in Australia has been falling.
What was the homicide rate before the disarming of Australia?  Did the disarming of Australia reduce that rate any?  Citations would be good.

Further, a US model of that scenario proved that gun violence doesn't decrease.  Look at D.C.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

Parker wrote:

apollo_fi wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Think about the opportunistic shooter.  They have access to a gun, either their own (rarely), or from someone they know (fault is with that person for not securing said weapons).  They are at the bottom of their ropes, are attention starved like usmarine, and they have a need to be seen and "go out with a bang."  Their motive is usually to kill those who made fun of them, broke up with them, or otherwise general slaughter of innocents for the media attention.
Remove the access to a gun, and they cannot go out with a bang. No?
this is something that most people dont seem to get.

where the US is today, regarding the gun issue, would NOT allow for all the guns to be collected up so NO ONE has access to them.


so, propose how every citizen in this country would be willing to turn in all of the guns they own.
oh, but by the way, we cant promise that the criminals wont have them.....JUST the people that follow the laws.
no thanks bro....as long as bad people can arm themselves in this country, i will also.
Absolutely, If tomorrow there was a countrywide ban on guns in the US it would be an unmitigated disaster. Getting rid of firearms successfully is a process that would have to take years to impliment in a country with high firearms ownership.
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|7114|Espoo, Finland

SEREMAKER wrote:

not downplaying anything here but these shootings happen in " Gun Free Zones " ie lawfull CWP holders can not carry - I would bet some serious money that these (some maybe not all) shootings woudl not happen if they killer thought they were in a area with people carrying
Yes, I suicidal mass murderer is going to think twice if there is a change he'll die by someone else.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

usmarine wrote:

nationmaster = phail
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses … urder.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html
Australia has a third of Americas homicide rate or is the FBI phail too?
It also shows that the homicide rate in Australia has been falling.
What was the homicide rate before the disarming of Australia?  Did the disarming of Australia reduce that rate any?  Citations would be good.

Further, a US model of that scenario proved that gun violence doesn't decrease.  Look at D.C.
The DC example is as stupid as gun free zones. There's nothing to stop firearms from the rest of the country getting to DC. The supply for the criminals remains as high as if guns were legal, but the positives from the possibility of people being able to defend themselves gets removed. Banning guns in DC was a stupid idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
Skip down to the Measuring the effects of firearms law bit.

It looks like there has been a slight reduction in the homicide rate after the new gun laws, estimates around 250 lives are saved each year from less homicide/suicide.

There hasn't been an explosion in the homicide rate. I guess Australians aren't geting mown down left, right and centre now that they have less access to guns with which to defend themselves.
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6997|Mountains of NC

Gawwad wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

not downplaying anything here but these shootings happen in " Gun Free Zones " ie lawfull CWP holders can not carry - I would bet some serious money that these (some maybe not all) shootings woudl not happen if they killer thought they were in a area with people carrying
Yes, I suicidal mass murderer is going to think twice if there is a change he'll die by someone else.
well we don't know that tell they drop these " Gun Free Zones " against the lawful ............ but I believe that it would work

You ( the mass murderer) wants to go on a killing spree in a Mall, you know that people can't carry in there bc of " Gun Free Zone " law ... so this would be a good place ( as proven )

Now we drop that law, You now know that people can carry, You want to do a killing spree but you know that you could get killed before you get a shot off, You sit there trying to think of somewhere else to go to do shootings ...... nothing is popping up, Your angry and Your need for attention on the media could be nothing but a mention on the news that armed gunman was stepping through the doors of the local mall when he taking down by lawful citizen
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California
Did you know gun ownership in Pakistin is illegal, yet it's one of the most heavily armed societies in the world.

As for the United States.  If you've ever read our Constitution, you'll have read that we believe God endowed us with certain unalienable rights, among which are LIFE, LIBERTY, and the Pursuit of Happiness.  We have a Bill of Rights that goes with this Constitution.  The amendment in those rights that ensures ALL the others is the protection from the government from taking away our right to arms.  Let me rephrase that...  The right to have guns is already implied to Americans...it can't be taken away or suspended.  The 2nd amendment is that the government cannot infringe upon that right.  Sure it is under attack by fools who think they're smarter than history who wish to disarm Americans.  Sure they thought banning hand guns in D.C would slow gun crime.  Sure they thought an assault weapons ban would reduce gun crime.  Sure they think microstamping cartidge casings with identification will help police identify shooters.  Sure there's alot of "gun-control" laws in place...  But as is proven over and over and over...they don't work.  Historically, what works is not restricting armed citizens.

Our freedom of speech means nothing if we can't defend it's guaranteed use.  Sorry Australia has an assbackwards system meant for tyranny and enslavement.  And if you think Australia's disarming of it's citizens will keep guns out of Australia, you're sorely mistaken.  There are men who sell guns (see movie "Lord of War") and will take advantage of that lucrative market to sell guns illegally.  Give Australia some time and you'll see the guns come back..and most likely to the people who mean to use them for crime.

The DC example is as stupid as gun free zones. There's nothing to stop firearms from the rest of the country getting to DC. The supply for the criminals remains as high as if guns were legal, but the positives from the possibility of people being able to defend themselves gets removed. Banning guns in DC was a stupid idea.
Do you think the magical canadian and mexican borders would prevent guns from coming in?  Hence my Mexican deportation analogy.  How do you equate lawful gun owners giving up their guns and crooks getting them as productive?  Getting rid of guns, while impossible, is and always will be the worst idea possible.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-15 11:50:56)

HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|6426

PureFodder wrote:

Don't let the kids have guns, don't let the teacher have guns, but do have a small, well trained buch of armed security to respond to any problems.
Interesting proposal.  I can't imagine someone hasn't suggested this before.  This is a brilliant idea, this "force" of armed individuals who are to "police" an area with defined boundaries known as a "jurisdiction."  Wait... why does that sound vaguely familiar?  Oh, that's right.  It's because your idea is not novel and is actually instituted in every city and town across the nation.  They're called the fucking police.  We can all see how fast the cops can respond to something like this, and it's not nearly fast enough.  And even after they arrive on the scene, with the gunman still blasting away (see: Columbine) they'll just sit on their asses outside and plan their entry, and all the while people inside are getting shot the fuck up.

Think before you speak.
HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|6426

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

truth is:

it´s not the free men, who bear arms - it´s the psychos.
I can't believe no one's called you out for the idiocy and assholery you just displayed.

So I'm doing it.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California

HollisHurlbut wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't let the kids have guns, don't let the teacher have guns, but do have a small, well trained buch of armed security to respond to any problems.
Interesting proposal.  I can't imagine someone hasn't suggested this before.  This is a brilliant idea, this "force" of armed individuals who are to "police" an area with defined boundaries known as a "jurisdiction."  Wait... why does that sound vaguely familiar?  Oh, that's right.  It's because your idea is not novel and is actually instituted in every city and town across the nation.  They're called the fucking police.  We can all see how fast the cops can respond to something like this, and it's not nearly fast enough.  And even after they arrive on the scene, with the gunman still blasting away (see: Columbine) they'll just sit on their asses outside and plan their entry, and all the while people inside are getting shot the fuck up.

Think before you speak.
True, police are not even liable or required to protect you. 


Arm teachers voluntarily!
PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

IRONCHEF wrote:

HollisHurlbut wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't let the kids have guns, don't let the teacher have guns, but do have a small, well trained buch of armed security to respond to any problems.
Interesting proposal.  I can't imagine someone hasn't suggested this before.  This is a brilliant idea, this "force" of armed individuals who are to "police" an area with defined boundaries known as a "jurisdiction."  Wait... why does that sound vaguely familiar?  Oh, that's right.  It's because your idea is not novel and is actually instituted in every city and town across the nation.  They're called the fucking police.  We can all see how fast the cops can respond to something like this, and it's not nearly fast enough.  And even after they arrive on the scene, with the gunman still blasting away (see: Columbine) they'll just sit on their asses outside and plan their entry, and all the while people inside are getting shot the fuck up.

Think before you speak.
True, police are not even liable or required to protect you. 


Arm teachers voluntarily!
I was going for having a couple of armed security preople specifically for the school/college/university.

The problem with arming teachers is teaching can be a very stressful job, nervous breakdowns unfortunately aren't uncommon in teaching.

You can figure out where this is going....

Oh and in the Columbine incident the local populace, who presumably consisted of many armed people also did bugger all to help. Also the last thing the police want when responding to an emergency is lots of armed people all running around as they'll obviously have to disarm all of them before they can get around to determining which one is the criminal.

Picture this, A shooting begins on a campus. Lots of people respond by running around with a gun trying to figure out which of the people running around with a gun is the one they're trying to stop. If there's only one nutter with a gun it's way easier identify the nutter.

Last edited by PureFodder (2008-02-15 13:08:45)

IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California
Oh, I thought of that.  And having been taught in the public school system, I know plenty of teachers who shouldn't have guns.  But that's what the CCW permit process hopefully covers! 

Furhter, think of the insta-respect teachers would get once a program like that started?  A program where teachers were allowed CCW permits and even specific training for school shootings.  And I have to believe the teachers will have considerably less stress knowing they'll be respected more.  But yes, as soon as there's a teacher who shoots up his class room or an unruly student, then the anti-gunners have some serious leverage for aborting our 2a rights and basic rights of protection.

Anyway, my first choice is plainclothes armed guards.  The don't even have to be there 24/7 but can have a random schedule.  Many people put alarm company stickers on their doors and it's enough to send a burglar to the next house.  If a school is known to have armed undercover guards in it, that may save lives.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6823|The Gem Saloon

IRONCHEF wrote:

Hell, there might be a new sword revolution with dual katana wielding psychos.
god, i could only hope.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7143|US

IRONCHEF wrote:

Anyway, my first choice is plainclothes armed guards.
There are people willing to do that for free!...and they are generally well trained.  They are called CCW holders.
See: New Life Church Shooting as an example.

Illinois once again proved how "safe" gun-control can make a society.  There are no carry rights for average citizens.  If you are an ex-DELTA/anti-terrorism guy, you would still have trouble getting PERMISSION from the "Great State of Illinois" to carry.  So, good guys can't carry, but criminals still do.  The least we could do is equalize the situation.  Having both sides armed is a realistic and simple option.  It certainly beats the status quo!

I don't know how much good CCW laws would have on school shootings, as most students are too young to get a permit.  There is hope that older college students and teachers could stop such incidents.  I know several students at my school who have CCW permits, but cannot carry on campus.

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