Pages: 1

 

Poll

What do you think of Fundamentalists?

They Brainwash their kids and mess with society77%77% - 17
They're entitled to their beliefs and don't bother me18%18% - 4
They are right on, back to the days of the Bible!4%4% - 1
Total: 22
2008-02-29 17:15:04
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA
I watch the show "Wife Swap" often, and a few episodes pissed me off.  One family had three very young girls that were forced to wear dresses and little bows in their hair, and the kids were homeschooled and taught nothing except Bible crap, another family had 5 girls who were brainwashed by the father to be "good respectful wives" and other bullshit.  I don't like fundamentalists, honestly - they take everything in the Old Testament as the direct word of god.  Here's a question, if they believe in biblical law so much, do they stone their kids to death if they disrespect them?

They brainwash their children to irrational beliefs, and end up as a lost part of society.  It sickens me how children of Fundamentalist parents are brainwashed.  Girls are told that they're the butt of society, and they're trained to think they're subhuman.  It's sort of like a Jewish Neo-nazi or a gay republican, it's insane.  Men certainly get the big cut of the pie - boys are brainwashed to think that women are subservient to them and that a "wife" is property and whatnot.

I see brainwashing children as a form of child abuse.  For example, it's wrong to teach "Intelligent Design" in school, because it's not a theory, it's a belief.  Do we teach about the tooth fairy or santa claus in school as an actual segment?  We don't, wanna know why?  There is no evidence that santa or the tooth fairy exist and there is a ton of evidence against the existence of either.  If people want to believe something, fine, just don't make your kids believe in it.  Hypothetically, if I ever had kids, and some stupid parents made intelligent design required, I'd take the kids out of school and move to Canada.

Opinions?  P.S sorry for all the threads I make, I'm just a very opinionated person.
2008-02-29 17:25:59
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Um... you would despise North Carolina.  We're the Bible Belt.  Women here (outside of the colleges) are mostly very domesticated.

That being said, I can't say I agree with the fundamentalists on much of anything, but I've made a few friends among them, and how they choose to raise their kids is their business.

Although, I do have to say that Islamic fundamentalists bother me a lot more than the Christian ones.  Forcing their women to wear a sheet or veil is rather stupid IMHO.

If you want to hate on a religion, you might as well hate on Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientologists and Mormons.
2008-02-29 17:27:42
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA
I respect all religion's right to exist, but I don't respect their tactics of making sure their religion survives, IE brainwashing children.
2008-02-29 17:28:38
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6997|Portland, OR, USA
That's the only way you get children to join a religion..  Religion is brainwashing
2008-02-29 17:33:55
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

FallenMorgan wrote:

I respect all religion's right to exist, but I don't respect their tactics of making sure their religion survives, IE brainwashing children.
Um...  I can assure you that this is just a fact of life.  Every society has cultural mores that it places on children.  Some are just more religious societies than others.  You really can't escape the fact that, to some extent, each of us is merely a product of our environment.

Besides, can you imagine how twisted things would become if the government had the power to tell parents how to raise their kids?
2008-02-29 17:36:53
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker
^^ Qft

Even the most fundamentalist families I knew as a child were not brainwashing their children.  They were simply raising their kids with their values just like every other parent.  Being a "respectful wife" is not a bad thing, girls are not taught they're the "butt of society" or "subhuman", nor are women property.  A Christian man is given a huge responsibility as the head of his family because he is accountable for the actions of his wife and children.  Included in that responsibility is the command to love their wife as Christ loved the Church.

I don't know what I would do without my wife and her perspective and support.  She has an equal role, so even though I'm the head of the house, it's not because I'm more important, it's just the role I have.  When a wife is loved by her husband like he should, she will have no problem giving him respect.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-02-29 17:51:24)

2008-02-29 17:53:58
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA

Stingray24 wrote:

^^ Qft

Even the most fundamentalist families I knew as a child were not brainwashing their children.  They were simply raising their kids with their values just like every other parent.  Being a "respectful wife" is not a bad thing, girls are not taught they're the "butt of society" or "subhuman", nor are women property.  A Christian man is given a huge responsibility as the head of his family because he is accountable for the actions of his wife and children.  Included in that responsibility is the command to love their wife as Christ loved the Church.
The Old Testament though says so many things that can be seen as degrading to women.  Sure, married people have to love eachother and supposedly treat eachother equally, but that's not exactly what the old testament says...

I see nothing wrong with a woman being the "head" of a family while the man is the one who takes care of the kids and whatnot.  It happens alot and whatnot.  Never gonna happen to me simply because I wanna get a vasectomy but hypothetically if I had kids I wouldn't want to teach them about stereotypical gender roles.
2008-02-29 18:04:19
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker
Would you mind posting what you feel is degrading to women in the OT?  I'd be happy to discuss it.  The OT does focus on more strict "law", however it is actually the NT that contains the command for wives to respect and husbands to love.  You'll find the focus and tone of the teachings of Jesus in the NT to be much different than the OT.  What I'm referring to with "head" of the family is ultimate responsibility before God, not who does the household duties.  I happily take care of the children, help clean the house, do dishes, etc.
2008-02-29 18:08:03
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA

Stingray24 wrote:

Would you mind posting what you feel is degrading to women in the OT?  I'd be happy to discuss it.  The OT does focus on more strict "law", however it is actually the NT that contains the command for wives to respect and husbands to love.  You'll find the focus and tone of the teachings of Jesus in the NT to be much different than the OT.  What I'm referring to with "head" of the family is ultimate responsibility before God, not who does the household duties.  I happily take care of the children, help clean the house, do dishes, etc.
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Biblical_Sexism

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

That's not degrading to women?
2008-02-29 18:08:33
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

FallenMorgan wrote:

The Old Testament though says so many things that can be seen as degrading to women.  Sure, married people have to love eachother and supposedly treat eachother equally, but that's not exactly what the old testament says...

I see nothing wrong with a woman being the "head" of a family while the man is the one who takes care of the kids and whatnot.  It happens alot and whatnot.  Never gonna happen to me simply because I wanna get a vasectomy but hypothetically if I had kids I wouldn't want to teach them about stereotypical gender roles.
Fallen, much of the Old Testament comes from patriarchal societies.  Most modern Christians have adapted their beliefs to reflect modern standards.

If any group is guilty of taking the sexism of Judea-Christian religion far too strictly, it is Islam.  Mormonism is also guilty of some sexism.  I think you'll find most Christians (at least in America) are fairly egalitarian in their treatment of women, although there are certain groups that need to improve some.
2008-02-29 18:21:27
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker

FallenMorgan wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Would you mind posting what you feel is degrading to women in the OT?  I'd be happy to discuss it.  The OT does focus on more strict "law", however it is actually the NT that contains the command for wives to respect and husbands to love.  You'll find the focus and tone of the teachings of Jesus in the NT to be much different than the OT.  What I'm referring to with "head" of the family is ultimate responsibility before God, not who does the household duties.  I happily take care of the children, help clean the house, do dishes, etc.
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Biblical_Sexism

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

That's not degrading to women?
Imo, no.  The man being the head of the home is in no way degrading to the woman he loves.  He has greater responsibility and is held accountable for the action of his wife and his children.  You missed the man being addressed later in the passage which puts things in proper perspective.
2008-02-29 18:27:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
It seems like the main problem with sexism in religion is that many things are done with the idea of "protection" in mind.

For example, a lot of the reason for why women have to cover up so much in parts of the Islamic World is the Muslim mindset that women must be protected from the lust of men, and that covering them up helps do that.  Yet, imposing such a mindset often accomplishes the opposite effect.  By making more of a women's body taboo to look upon, it only increases the libido of certain men.  Rape is quite common in the Islamic World partially because of attitudes on sexuality.

To a lesser extent, the same protection problem could be said of certain branches of Christianity that prohibit women from holding higher offices in the church.  There is a certain paternalistic attitude that women should be homemakers first and foremost among certain Christians and Mormons.
2008-02-29 18:43:53
BigOrangeArmy
Don't tase me, bro!
+12|6423|Dallas

Turquoise wrote:

To a lesser extent, the same protection problem could be said of certain branches of Christianity that prohibit women from holding higher offices in the church.  There is a certain paternalistic attitude that women should be homemakers first and foremost among certain Christians and Mormons.
Its not that they are sexist or anything...they just hold that women have certain roles, and men have others. Like some people think men should only be in the military because they seem physically more fit for it.

I mean, I think women and men have certain roles (to a reasonable extent), but whats wrong with a man doing dishes or a women going to work?
2008-02-29 18:45:06
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA
Agreed Turquoise, it also seems like the central idea with all religions is "this is how it was and it'll always be like this."  Why can't religions evolve their ideas a bit?  I mean, creationists are so keen to discredit any evidence their theories are bullshit.

BigOrangeArmy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

To a lesser extent, the same protection problem could be said of certain branches of Christianity that prohibit women from holding higher offices in the church.  There is a certain paternalistic attitude that women should be homemakers first and foremost among certain Christians and Mormons.
Its not that they are sexist or anything...they just hold that women have certain roles, and men have others. Like some people think men should only be in the military because they seem physically more fit for it.

I mean, I think women and men have certain roles (to a reasonable extent), but whats wrong with a man doing dishes or a women going to work?
I despise the idea of only men being allowed on the frontlines.  During World War II there were many female Russian snipers and whatnot.  It's not like some blonde bimbo who cares soooo much about her hair would join the army.  Very likely that women who join the army would be more like the butch-type.  If their gripe is "fraternizing" too much, well, recruit lesbians, just like how gays can't be in the army.  That wouldn't work because they'd do things with other women, but uh, it's not really the same as Private Bill and Corporal Steve getting it on.

Last edited by FallenMorgan (2008-02-29 19:41:51)

2008-02-29 21:28:58
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Religions do evolve, but they often take their sweet time doing it.  Islam is long overdue for a Reformation.

As for the Creationists, the old earth ones are ok, but the young earth ones are just ridiculous.
2008-02-29 21:42:29
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6341|Glendale, CA

Turquoise wrote:

Religions do evolve, but they often take their sweet time doing it.  Islam is long overdue for a Reformation.

As for the Creationists, the old earth ones are ok, but the young earth ones are just ridiculous.
Christianity had it's reforming of ideas.  That would be great if Islam had something like the reformation.  They already have their various splinters off of regular Islam though.
2008-02-29 21:45:51
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7193|Cambridge (UK)
They brainwash their kids.

But then so does everyone.
2008-02-29 21:48:48
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|7257|Denver colorado

FallenMorgan wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Religions do evolve, but they often take their sweet time doing it.  Islam is long overdue for a Reformation.

As for the Creationists, the old earth ones are ok, but the young earth ones are just ridiculous.
Christianity had it's reforming of ideas.  That would be great if Islam had something like the reformation.  They already have their various splinters off of regular Islam though.
And that leads to people being murdered in huge numbers... It reminds me of the protestants back in the reformation.
2008-02-29 21:50:39
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

FallenMorgan wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Religions do evolve, but they often take their sweet time doing it.  Islam is long overdue for a Reformation.

As for the Creationists, the old earth ones are ok, but the young earth ones are just ridiculous.
Christianity had it's reforming of ideas.  That would be great if Islam had something like the reformation.  They already have their various splinters off of regular Islam though.
From what I can tell, most of the branching off of Islam had to do with differences in who was holy and who wasn't.  Islam's spectrum of literalist vs. allegorical interpretations seem to vary more within each branch rather than varying by branch.

For example, there are both ultraconservative Shia and reformist Shia.  Neither the Sunni nor the Shia sect is implicitly more reformist.  However, Shia leadership tends to lean more in the ultraconservative direction than the Sunni leadership.
2008-02-29 21:52:24
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

lavadisk wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Religions do evolve, but they often take their sweet time doing it.  Islam is long overdue for a Reformation.

As for the Creationists, the old earth ones are ok, but the young earth ones are just ridiculous.
Christianity had it's reforming of ideas.  That would be great if Islam had something like the reformation.  They already have their various splinters off of regular Islam though.
And that leads to people being murdered in huge numbers... It reminds me of the protestants back in the reformation.
Sometimes, it takes bloodshed in the present to prevent even more of it in the future.
2008-02-29 21:55:58
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|7257|Denver colorado

Turquoise wrote:

lavadisk wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:


Christianity had it's reforming of ideas.  That would be great if Islam had something like the reformation.  They already have their various splinters off of regular Islam though.
And that leads to people being murdered in huge numbers... It reminds me of the protestants back in the reformation.
Sometimes, it takes bloodshed in the present to prevent even more of it in the future.
And we can get the world record for the largest glass bowl ever. ;D

 

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