This is proof that these are made up laws of men, not God. Thank a certain series of events that I'm not Catholic nor do I live in a Catholic nation.
Last edited by Superior Mind (2008-03-10 19:01:57)
- Superior Mind
- (not macbeth)
- +1,755|7120
Yay pious hypocritical douche bags thinking they're better than everyone else because they have a 2000 year old fictional book about a woman who covered up her adultery with a neat story about immaculate conception.
#1 "sin" in my book is spreading false hope to the ignorant.
#1 "sin" in my book is spreading false hope to the ignorant.
but..but...how else can they seize enormous wealth and betray the trust of children without such a tale!CommieChipmunk wrote:
Yay pious hypocritical douche bags thinking they're better than everyone else because they have a 2000 year old fictional book about a woman who covered up her adultery with a neat story about immaculate conception.
#1 "sin" in my book is spreading false hope to the ignorant.
1 - genetic modification,
2 - carrying out experiments on humans,
3 - polluting the environment,
4 - causing social injustice,
5- causing poverty,
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy
7 - taking drugs
So hypothetically if I'm a test subject (#2) in a drug trial (#7) which cures cancer by altering my genetic code(#1), and the drug company, who intends to sell it at a price just high enough to require people to sell most of their assets to obtain it (#5), will pay me $10m (#6)...am I doomed? Ps. Side effects: uncontrollable rage and tourette's (#4) and diarrhea (#3).
Some thoughts:
What if a scientist develops a cure for cancer that alters the genetic code?
Bill Gates is insanely rich...but he gives an insane amount of money to charity?
Seems like a lot of these are in the gray area and subjective. For instance - social injustice is a point of view, how much money is insanely rich, isn't taking medicine a form of modification & taking drugs, define polluting the environment - do you mean altering it?, the bully at school causing injustice, or maybe we need to bring up the endless legalization of drugs issue...
2 - carrying out experiments on humans,
3 - polluting the environment,
4 - causing social injustice,
5- causing poverty,
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy
7 - taking drugs
So hypothetically if I'm a test subject (#2) in a drug trial (#7) which cures cancer by altering my genetic code(#1), and the drug company, who intends to sell it at a price just high enough to require people to sell most of their assets to obtain it (#5), will pay me $10m (#6)...am I doomed? Ps. Side effects: uncontrollable rage and tourette's (#4) and diarrhea (#3).
Some thoughts:
What if a scientist develops a cure for cancer that alters the genetic code?
Bill Gates is insanely rich...but he gives an insane amount of money to charity?
Seems like a lot of these are in the gray area and subjective. For instance - social injustice is a point of view, how much money is insanely rich, isn't taking medicine a form of modification & taking drugs, define polluting the environment - do you mean altering it?, the bully at school causing injustice, or maybe we need to bring up the endless legalization of drugs issue...
Alright, I double-majored in both Religious Studies and Catholic Studies in college.
First: you guys are being highly offensive. Why do you stand up for Muslims but not for Catholics?
Second: If you REALLY want to know what the church said, don't read news articles, read what the Vatican released. ...after a lot more scourging of the news, I have found nothing about it in official church documents. Evidently all this came from an interview with the 2nd place guy in the city newspaper. This is not dogma, people
Third: I think that a truly wise person would try to find out WHY people believe these things before passing judgment on them. Otherwise, you lose all credibility in a debate with a knowledgeable person.
What this means is, Forgiveness is not something that is GRANTED, it is something offered that we must accept. Asking forgiveness is an act of humility. Demanding forgiveness isn't a sincere request.
For example, to believe that whatever it is that you have done is too bad to be forgiven is, logically, unforgivable. It means that you truly believe that God's love, compassion, and forgiveness are finite, and that you have managed to basically outperform God. This is (ironically) immensely prideful, not repentant.
Another example is the sin of presumption. That is to say, "eh, I can do this because I can always ask God's forgiveness and He has to forgive me." This, again, is you thinking you have outperformed God. Naturally, if you are not truly sorry, you cannot be forgiven.
In an earthly perspective, we've all met highly obnoxious people. And if you can ever get them to apologize for anything, they definitely only say it to get you the hell away from them because you're breathing their oxygen.
One needs to be repentant to be forgiven. Like I said, it is not a demand we make of God that he has to deliver. It is a gift that He offers us that we often reject. The concept of repentance involves penance. The humility we feel in genuinely asking forgiveness is a penance. To be prideful is the opposite, and this is why it is unforgivable.
An unforgivable sin is called that not because of what God lacks, but because the forgiveness does not happen due to an insincerity on our part.
I hope that makes more sense to you.
And one more thing. All of us were given the gift of free will. We are blessed to be able to choose what we want to believe and what we do not want to believe. However, there is an objective truth. What we believe or do not believe does not change the truth. We all search to find this truth. Many of us are still in school, and we look that way. Once we leave school, we are all still students of life, looking for that truth. Some call it fulfillment, some call it happiness...call it what you will. You can choose to agree or disagree with the Church. That's fine.
However, understand that the Catholic Church has done WAY more research, and collectively knows WAY more about these things -SCIENTIFICALLY, as well as spiritually- than you do. It is foolish to assume that you know more.
Do not be a victim of your own emotions. If the Church's position on experimenting with the human body offends you, learn more about it. It may offend you because you take that personally. However, if you just leave it at that, all you are saying is, you feeling good about yourself is the ultimate good.
Is it?
That's a question we all ought to answer.
First: you guys are being highly offensive. Why do you stand up for Muslims but not for Catholics?
Second: If you REALLY want to know what the church said, don't read news articles, read what the Vatican released. ...after a lot more scourging of the news, I have found nothing about it in official church documents. Evidently all this came from an interview with the 2nd place guy in the city newspaper. This is not dogma, people
Third: I think that a truly wise person would try to find out WHY people believe these things before passing judgment on them. Otherwise, you lose all credibility in a debate with a knowledgeable person.
now. Stingray, your point is actually a really good one, which is why I quoted it. God can forgive all sins. Any sin that is unforgivable is unforgivable because, by its nature, the person committing the sin rejects God's forgiveness.Stingray24 wrote:
If you research the authorship of the Bible you will find it to be quite consistent. The "new rules" continue the idea that there are sins that God is unable to forgive, which is false. The old and new "mortal sins" set by the Catholic Church were off base from the beginning. Either God can forgive all sin or He cannot. Anything in the middle is not logical.
What this means is, Forgiveness is not something that is GRANTED, it is something offered that we must accept. Asking forgiveness is an act of humility. Demanding forgiveness isn't a sincere request.
For example, to believe that whatever it is that you have done is too bad to be forgiven is, logically, unforgivable. It means that you truly believe that God's love, compassion, and forgiveness are finite, and that you have managed to basically outperform God. This is (ironically) immensely prideful, not repentant.
Another example is the sin of presumption. That is to say, "eh, I can do this because I can always ask God's forgiveness and He has to forgive me." This, again, is you thinking you have outperformed God. Naturally, if you are not truly sorry, you cannot be forgiven.
In an earthly perspective, we've all met highly obnoxious people. And if you can ever get them to apologize for anything, they definitely only say it to get you the hell away from them because you're breathing their oxygen.
One needs to be repentant to be forgiven. Like I said, it is not a demand we make of God that he has to deliver. It is a gift that He offers us that we often reject. The concept of repentance involves penance. The humility we feel in genuinely asking forgiveness is a penance. To be prideful is the opposite, and this is why it is unforgivable.
An unforgivable sin is called that not because of what God lacks, but because the forgiveness does not happen due to an insincerity on our part.
I hope that makes more sense to you.
And one more thing. All of us were given the gift of free will. We are blessed to be able to choose what we want to believe and what we do not want to believe. However, there is an objective truth. What we believe or do not believe does not change the truth. We all search to find this truth. Many of us are still in school, and we look that way. Once we leave school, we are all still students of life, looking for that truth. Some call it fulfillment, some call it happiness...call it what you will. You can choose to agree or disagree with the Church. That's fine.
However, understand that the Catholic Church has done WAY more research, and collectively knows WAY more about these things -SCIENTIFICALLY, as well as spiritually- than you do. It is foolish to assume that you know more.
Do not be a victim of your own emotions. If the Church's position on experimenting with the human body offends you, learn more about it. It may offend you because you take that personally. However, if you just leave it at that, all you are saying is, you feeling good about yourself is the ultimate good.
Is it?
That's a question we all ought to answer.
Last edited by G3|Genius (2008-03-10 20:44:44)
..and we are punished for using it.Stingray24 wrote:
And one more thing. All of us were given the gift of free will.
Excellent post. You did a proper job explaining your position, G3. +1 when my karma recharges
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-03-10 21:35:14)
I think in this case, one can only turn scripture, which is what Jesus, the real founder of Christianity, and Son of God said; the only deadly sin is to reject God completely and utterly, willingly condemning yourself.
I don't think anybody here who tried to condemn themselves would do it seriously or be old enough to know what they're doing, so I'm not too worried about.
I don't think anybody here who tried to condemn themselves would do it seriously or be old enough to know what they're doing, so I'm not too worried about.
They forgot the 8th sin.
Grabbing little boys penises.
Grabbing little boys penises.
excess-- excess in anything is bad... Period.
Thankfully, you are wrong. I do not believe in any god/gods/deities/demigods/ or other miscellaneous fictional beings (fictional in my opinion.) I full heartedly and willingly reject your God or any other god without regret. I cannot imagine a Being which would condemn it's creations for utilizing the very power given to them, free will so you say. Why create a universe, if only to damn your creations. Sound's like a terrible and angry God to me.The_Mac wrote:
I think in this case, one can only turn scripture, which is what Jesus, the real founder of Christianity, and Son of God said; the only deadly sin is to reject God completely and utterly, willingly condemning yourself.
I don't think anybody here who tried to condemn themselves would do it seriously or be old enough to know what they're doing, so I'm not too worried about.
And no, I'm not a child, I've been touched by terrible life experiences, and I'm quite serious.
oh, and another thing. If all that is was created in six days, how important do you think you are? If we made "the creator" mad enough, he'd just wipe us clean with a holy fire and have a new universe going in a couple days.
+1 heresy
The catholic church ceased to be relevant a while ago.
I'm not going to take any notice of a bunch of dress-wearing pedos.
I'm not going to take any notice of a bunch of dress-wearing pedos.
Fuck Israel
I guess they missed child abuse. Why would that be?
George Carlin edited the ten commandments to make more sense in one of his routines.
I have answered this question in past threads...I found one thread, but there are more.liquix wrote:
Thankfully, you are wrong. I do not believe in any god/gods/deities/demigods/ or other miscellaneous fictional beings (fictional in my opinion.) I full heartedly and willingly reject your God or any other god without regret. I cannot imagine a Being which would condemn it's creations for utilizing the very power given to them, free will so you say. Why create a universe, if only to damn your creations. Sound's like a terrible and angry God to me.
The other thread was about the meaning of life, but it is still a legitimate response to your issue with free will, and how we can be condemned for flagrantly exercising it.
The meaning of life is to love. Consider this: Genesis tells us that God created us in His own image. The apostle John tells us in his first epistle that God is love. St. Paul writes that God's love is made perfect through us.
Then why does so much bad shit happen? Why do people do bad things? Why does God allow bad things?
The answer lies in exploring the nature of Love. We cannot force anyone to love. We cannot be forced to love anyone. If someone does not like me, that is their choice. They can decide not to like me. If we were all forced to love, then would it really be love? Absolutely not. So, in order to be able to love perfectly, we need to be able to chose NOT to love.
That is what the whole tree in the garden of eden is about. Whether there ever was an adam and an eve and a garden and a tree and an apple and a snake...it's all irrelevent. The point is, God created us to love perfectly, so he gave us the ability to choose not to love if we so want to.
That is the meaning of life. And some of us will choose to love, and some of us will choose not to love. And some of us will be kind to those who choose to love, and others will flame. It's all part of package
or a flood? lolAnd no, I'm not a child, I've been touched by terrible life experiences, and I'm quite serious.
oh, and another thing. If all that is was created in six days, how important do you think you are? If we made "the creator" mad enough, he'd just wipe us clean with a holy fire and have a new universe going in a couple days.
+1 heresy
as far as the whole six day theory, read Genesis 1, and then read Genesis 2-3. This is one of the things that makes it difficult for many bible-bangers to argue with those who believe in both sacred scripture and sacred tradition.
There's no such thing as "earning" that much money. Unless you can somehow work %100,000 harder than someone else who already works their ass off.Gooners wrote:
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy
What!? You can't help it can you? If you've earned your way there, then how can it be a sin?
1 - genetic modification, not yet
2 - carrying out experiments on humans, yes
3 - polluting the environment, yes
4 - causing social injustice,
5- causing poverty, nty already there
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy, never happen
7 - taking drugs , always
looks like im going to hell in a bucket ..but at least i,m enjoying the ride
2 - carrying out experiments on humans, yes
3 - polluting the environment, yes
4 - causing social injustice,
5- causing poverty, nty already there
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy, never happen
7 - taking drugs , always
looks like im going to hell in a bucket ..but at least i,m enjoying the ride
you learn the true meaning of life when you see houses and cars blow by like leaves on a windy day.
Sure there is. Earning is not just about "sweat equity". You can earn by taking risks others don't/won't take.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
There's no such thing as "earning" that much money. Unless you can somehow work %100,000 harder than someone else who already works their ass off.Gooners wrote:
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy
What!? You can't help it can you? If you've earned your way there, then how can it be a sin?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I understand that some people should make a more than others. But the gaps are sometimes way too ridiculous to call it earning. Exploitation is a much better word.FEOS wrote:
Sure there is. Earning is not just about "sweat equity". You can earn by taking risks others don't/won't take.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
There's no such thing as "earning" that much money. Unless you can somehow work %100,000 harder than someone else who already works their ass off.Gooners wrote:
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy
What!? You can't help it can you? If you've earned your way there, then how can it be a sin?
Sounds more like jealousy.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
I understand that some people should make a more than others. But the gaps are sometimes way too ridiculous to call it earning. Exploitation is a much better word.FEOS wrote:
Sure there is. Earning is not just about "sweat equity". You can earn by taking risks others don't/won't take.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
There's no such thing as "earning" that much money. Unless you can somehow work %100,000 harder than someone else who already works their ass off.
To make a subjective assessment of "ridiculous" because you, based on some intuitive rationale, deem someone else unworthy of their income is incredibly (somehow) elitist and communist at the same time.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
The Catholic church hordes millions yet deem being wealthy a sin. Hypocrites the lot.
Was that seriously meant to be funny?Funky_Finny wrote:
Readthen stopped reading.IG-Calibre wrote:
The Catholic church
loled as soon as i saw the word "Catholic"
screw them and their "sins".....genetic modification is opening up a new
era in medicine, and wtf is this wealthy shit?...if you earned it and worked hard
it should be yours for the taking...
screw them and their "sins".....genetic modification is opening up a new
era in medicine, and wtf is this wealthy shit?...if you earned it and worked hard
it should be yours for the taking...
No, imagine having like, £50 billion, then imagine buying 5 £20 million mansions, then getting 50 cars, then NOT donating to charity, then making more money.RAVENMkXV wrote:
loled as soon as i saw the word "Catholic"
screw them and their "sins".....genetic modification is opening up a new
era in medicine, and wtf is this wealthy shit?...if you earned it and worked hard
it should be yours for the taking...
I guess the catholic church is living in sin. GJ you self righteous douche nozzles.IG-Calibre wrote:
6 - becoming obscenely wealthy