OH, sorry for the misunderstanding. It is the USA's fault for all the violence from the Middle East. I'm sure it was a peaceful place before the US invaded Iraq.CameronPoe wrote:
No, not really. I haven't encountered problems in my life with Sunni or Sh'ia. It just seems that anyone from that particular oil-rich region of the world that the US hands a gun to tends to want to shoot the US in the face thereafter. You fucked up their country quite nicely - the least you can expect is an eternity of hatred from those affected...Lotta_Drool wrote:
Are you saying that MUSLIMS are the problem? It sounded like that. It really sounded like that. Sunni and Shi'a are the problem and shouldn't have weapons?
Ahhhh, Cameron, you are a racist bigot just like me.
I win or I lose, that wasn't the point. Creating one thread after another, dissing a whole religion is just pathetic.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Excellent Point. You win.r'Eeee wrote:
Cry more Lotta
You expressed all of that in those 3 little words " Cry more Lotta ".r'Eeee wrote:
I win or I lose, that wasn't the point. Creating one thread after another, dissing a whole religion is just pathetic.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Excellent Point. You win.r'Eeee wrote:
Cry more Lotta
Just for the sake of diversity I will create my next thread on a different topic like " Hillary vs Obama " or " Women vs Blacks " or " Arkansas vs Illinios " or maybe a good old " Are all people that don't eat pork bad? " thread.
You got any good suggestions?
Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-03-31 14:04:23)
That's the nice thing about cash payments in the arms business, you can't really tell who paid the tab for anything can you?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
thats just one country, today. Im talking about 50 years of cold war proliferation. Most countries in the region were supplied by the reds. The Iraqi Army, 4th largest in the world at one time, was made up of munitions of from the USSR for the most part. France a good amount as well. French military influence is very apparent in the levant especially. More so, most the countries outside of Iran, Israel and Saudi Arabia dont have American weapons for the most part. Egypt and Lebanon, to an extent. But Im certain european weapons armed those people mostly.
As a side note, you want to see a logistics nightmare? Check out Turkish Gendarme units. The one I was stationed with was a 12 member squad, and everyone had a different "standard weapon". 1 Squad, 7 different calibre's of ammo (5.56 nato, 7.62 nato, 7.62 and 5.45 WP, 7.65, 9mm, and a sniper rifle I couldn't ID - Russian-made but not a Dragunov) . They said this was normal, they distributed weapons like that, not by soldier request but by some sort of "distribution system" to spread out the different guns.
No I don't. Create w/e thread you like, it doesn't make a difference to me. It is the Internet afterall. But, having said that, relaxing your brain, from the typical "I hate Islam" threads, could help.Lotta_Drool wrote:
You expressed all of that in those 3 little words " Cry more Lotta ".r'Eeee wrote:
I win or I lose, that wasn't the point. Creating one thread after another, dissing a whole religion is just pathetic.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Excellent Point. You win.
Just for the sake of diversity I will create my next thread on a different topic like " Hillary vs Obama " or " Women vs Blacks " or " Arkansas vs Illinios " or maybe a good old " Are all people that don't eat pork bad? " thread.
You got any good suggestions?
ORB estimatesGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
1 million?Braddock wrote:
What I'm saying is that other religions can't get up on their high horse when they have equally dark pasts themselves. For the record I will admit that ELEMENTS within the Muslim world are intolerant and violent, this doesn't mean they all are though.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Don't forget the cheese whiz.
Um, wtf are you talking about? Are you saying that since Islam is such a young religion it is retarded (still can't bring yourself to say intolerant or violent eh?). Well I am sure that the Mormons and Scientologists will be happy to hear they get a free pass if they decide to brutalize women and kill people that don't conform to their views and beliefs.
On a sidenote, the US invasion of Iraq, carried out on the back of George Bush not being able to tolerate the Saddam regime, is responsible for the deaths of more than one million people... will you admit that America is violent and intolerant in that sense?
thats worse than the lancet. I dont think its accurate at all.
Well it's kind of impossible to get truly accurate figures... I should have just said loads and loads!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
thats worse than the lancet. I dont think its accurate at all.
Well it was a relatively peaceful place during Ottoman rule up until some wiseguy had the idea of carving Israel into it upon breakup of the empire. Thus ensued several decades of political meddling, sponsored coups, resource exploitation and dictator backing at the hands of the west: I wonder why some of them don't like us, eh?Lotta_Drool wrote:
OH, sorry for the misunderstanding. It is the USA's fault for all the violence from the Middle East. I'm sure it was a peaceful place before the US invaded Iraq.
The US invaded Iraq at the end of the Ottoman Empire and made the Middle East a bad place?CameronPoe wrote:
Well it was a relatively peaceful place during Ottoman rule up until some wiseguy had the idea of carving Israel into it upon breakup of the empire. Thus ensued several decades of political meddling, sponsored coups, resource exploitation and dictator backing at the hands of the west: I wonder why some of them don't like us, eh?Lotta_Drool wrote:
OH, sorry for the misunderstanding. It is the USA's fault for all the violence from the Middle East. I'm sure it was a peaceful place before the US invaded Iraq.
Cameron, Nothing you said in that post is the truth.
The Middle East was a war torn area run by thugs, dictators, clans, and a violent religion long before the USA existed. The only thing that has changed over there is that Oil has given them Money, Power, and the Spotlight.
The US backing X vs Y never mattered a wit to how Fucked up the Middle East is and probably has done more to stablize it than anything else. If the USA wasn't around I am sure China, Russia, France, or Germany would have annexed the Oil fields by now.
I am sure Ireland has never benifited from the USA policing the world and keeping countries envious of potatoe rich territories from invading it, but many other countries have so why don't you go throw rocks at another country for awhile and give it a rest.
Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-03-31 15:43:59)
This is why Islam is currently more dangerous than most religions. The proportion of extremists among the general Muslim population is higher than that of other major religions. Granted, Evangelicals seem to be in a race with them for first place.Braddock wrote:
Here's a newsflash for you... most religions are totally fucked up; some have been around longer and have moderated their views somewhat over the course of history, others haven't been around as long and still have retarded views.Lotta_Drool wrote:
OH, my bad. It really could have been any of the religions promoting killing in the name of their God because all the religions are the same and they all do that stuff all the time. I learnt that from reading posts on this forum.
It's true, Christianity is something of a creaking old machine of a religion these days (well the Catholic Church is at least). It mumbles something insignificant to it's apathetic followers every now and again with all the pomp of it's glory days as if it still has a huge effect on the everyday world. Years ago it was powerful enough to send armies of people on bloodthirsty rampages through the Middle East. It could inspire incredible acts of cruelty in people and yet also give them the belief that a place in heaven would be secured for them after performing such things.Turquoise wrote:
This is why Islam is currently more dangerous than most religions. The proportion of extremists among the general Muslim population is higher than that of other major religions. Granted, Evangelicals seem to be in a race with them for first place.Braddock wrote:
Here's a newsflash for you... most religions are totally fucked up; some have been around longer and have moderated their views somewhat over the course of history, others haven't been around as long and still have retarded views.Lotta_Drool wrote:
OH, my bad. It really could have been any of the religions promoting killing in the name of their God because all the religions are the same and they all do that stuff all the time. I learnt that from reading posts on this forum.
Islam is like a young angry man among religions. Full of passion and energy, energy which is often horribly misdirected. Similar to the Christian crusades Islam can inspire followers to embark on missions to kill infidels with the promise of virgins and eternal happiness waiting for them in heaven. To make matters worse the US has opted to play political football with the Muslim extremists on this issue... a very dangerous thing because unlike Communism this 'battle' is both religious and political. Extremists will see US foreign policy as a further validation of their extremist views.
As bad as the Catholic Church is, I'd venture to say that Protestantism has actually killed more people throughout time. The Protestant equivalents of inquisitions killed more people than the Catholic ones. Granted, it's hard to really calculate exactly how many people the Catholics killed in what became Mexico and South America.Braddock wrote:
It's true, Christianity is something of a creaking old machine of a religion these days (well the Catholic Church is at least). It mumbles something insignificant to it's apathetic followers every now and again with all the pomp of it's glory days as if it still has a huge effect on the everyday world. Years ago it was powerful enough to send armies of people on bloodthirsty rampages through the Middle East. It could inspire incredible acts of cruelty in people and yet also give them the belief that a place in heaven would be secured for them after performing such things.
Well, if recent history is any indication, the "young angry man" might end up a dead man soon if the moderates and reformists don't quell the extremists. I'm not saying America's judgment has been very good through all this, but there's no question that we can crush whatever is thrown at us, and that if we're pushed hard enough, killing millions of people is something we're more than capable of.Braddock wrote:
Islam is like a young angry man among religions. Full of passion and energy, energy which is often horribly misdirected. Similar to the Christian crusades Islam can inspire followers to embark on missions to kill infidels with the promise of virgins and eternal happiness waiting for them in heaven. To make matters worse the US has opted to play political football with the Muslim extremists on this issue... a very dangerous thing because unlike Communism this 'battle' is both religious and political. Extremists will see US foreign policy as a further validation of their extremist views.
It's not something I'm proud of, but it is something I'm willing to admit....
Fuck. You're right. I hate that.CameronPoe wrote:
Well you should have a fairly accurate idea of what they could do - you sold them every weapon they own.... Just as well there's an Atlantic Ocean, a Mediterranean sea and a 3000+ nuclear arsenal separating the two of ye (just in case any of those kids turn nasty). That's the problem with you dumb cons - you arm your potential enemies because you're so fucking short-sighted.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Yes, I should just not worry about it. I mean what could 19 Muslims in Saudi Arabia do to hurt me in the USA.
Lotta_Drool wrote:
I made a simple error. I am currently looking for the Christain group's video that promotes killing current world leaders in the name of God.ATG wrote:
Devils advocacy Spit?
I am sure I will find one any minute now.
Ann Coulter may not be a "Christian group," but she speaks for the whole of Christianity about as accurately as the radicals you quote speak for the whole of Islam.Ann Coulter wrote:
The United States should bomb all Muslim centers, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
..............but you are generalizing, a bigot and a racist, if you disagree with those views.Braddock wrote:
Here's a newsflash for you... most religions are totally fucked up; some have been around longer and have moderated their views somewhat over the course of history, others haven't been around as long and still have retarded views.Lotta_Drool wrote:
OH, my bad. It really could have been any of the religions promoting killing in the name of their God because all the religions are the same and they all do that stuff all the time. I learnt that from reading posts on this forum.
Oh come on now, this is the best you can do? An incomplete quote that is out of context from a Republican talk show parrot. Give me one fucking break, you proved my point.Home wrote:
Lotta_Drool wrote:
I made a simple error. I am currently looking for the Christain group's video that promotes killing current world leaders in the name of God.ATG wrote:
Devils advocacy Spit?
I am sure I will find one any minute now.Ann Coulter may not be a "Christian group," but she speaks for the whole of Christianity about as accurately as the radicals you quote speak for the whole of Islam.Ann Coulter wrote:
The United States should bomb all Muslim centers, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
The Westboro Baptist Church is pretty out there.
Are they the snake handlers?Turquoise wrote:
The Westboro Baptist Church is pretty out there.
They are the funeral protesters...Lotta_Drool wrote:
Are they the snake handlers?Turquoise wrote:
The Westboro Baptist Church is pretty out there.
wow, you need a brief history lesson. First off it was the British and French who split up the Middle East after they defeated the Ottomans, and their German and Austrian allies in 1918. At the time US President Woodrow Wilson was strongly opposed to this, so were everyone living in the middle east. The United States hasn't had major influence in the Middle East until after World War Two where they wanted allies against the Soviets, however since the US was to quick to accept allies they supported the creation of Israel, as it would create a new, US friendly country. Now the Israels were fighting the Palestinians and British for control of the West Bank since the British dissolved the Ottoman Empire and established the colonies of Palestine, Iraq and a third one I forgot, the French got Syria but they lost it in 1940 before any major fighting broke out there so its not as important.Major_Spittle wrote:
The US invaded Iraq at the end of the Ottoman Empire and made the Middle East a bad place?
Cameron, Nothing you said in that post is the truth.
The Middle East was a war torn area run by thugs, dictators, clans, and a violent religion long before the USA existed. The only thing that has changed over there is that Oil has given them Money, Power, and the Spotlight.
The US backing X vs Y never mattered a wit to how Fucked up the Middle East is and probably has done more to stain the ME blize it than anything else. If the USA wasn't around I am sure China, Russia, France, or Germany would have annexed the Oil fields by now.
So really it was the British and French who started the mess for screwing those guys over big time but the US didn't help keep the situation from worsening. But really, the reason they continue to hate us is because we are rich forgineirs who have exploited them in the past and are right now using military force against them whenever they retaliate for what is going on, which just leads to us attacking them more which will cause them to attack us more and unless one side stops being a dick we aren't going to get anywhere.
meh
..and the story goes further than that. Ever since the U.K. and the U.S. did what they could to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran, we've created a legacy of supporting fanatics and dictators over democracy as long as it serves our interests in the oil trade.
We essentially helped the rise of Wahhabism by aiding the mujahideens in Afghanistan against the Soviets and by our continued support of the Saudi family.
Until very recently, we've done everything possible to subvert democracy and promote extremism in the Middle East. Now, we're having to undo a lot of the damage we've contributed to.
We essentially helped the rise of Wahhabism by aiding the mujahideens in Afghanistan against the Soviets and by our continued support of the Saudi family.
Until very recently, we've done everything possible to subvert democracy and promote extremism in the Middle East. Now, we're having to undo a lot of the damage we've contributed to.
An incomplete quote that is out of context? Not really, but OK, here's the full one, just for you:Lotta_Drool wrote:
Oh come on now, this is the best you can do? An incomplete quote that is out of context from a Republican talk show parrot. Give me one fucking break, you proved my point.Home wrote:
Lotta_Drool wrote:
I made a simple error. I am currently looking for the Christain group's video that promotes killing current world leaders in the name of God.
I am sure I will find one any minute now.Ann Coulter may not be a "Christian group," but she speaks for the whole of Christianity about as accurately as the radicals you quote speak for the whole of Islam.Ann Coulter wrote:
The United States should bomb all Muslim centers, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
Now that we have that trivial matter out of the way, (didn't change the argument whatsoever) we can move on to the "Republican talk show parrot" thing. It really doesn't prove your point at all, considering the video you used in the OP holds about as much weight in the whole of Islam as Coulter does to the whole of Christianity. You actually proved my point.Ann Coulter wrote:
"This is no time to be precious about locating the exact individuals directly involved in this particular terrorist attack.... We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
KKK? Crusades? Any christian extremist, pretty much?
-konfusion
edit: Why did I bother posting? He's not going to listen to any valid points anyways...
-konfusion
edit: Why did I bother posting? He's not going to listen to any valid points anyways...
Last edited by konfusion (2008-03-31 19:39:01)
He is probably just waiting for a valid point to be made.konfusion wrote:
KKK? Crusades? Any christian extremist, pretty much?
-konfusion
edit: Why did I bother posting? He's not going to listen to any valid points anyways...
When it is posted that Islam is negativly affecting western society it is argued that there is hardly any Muslims in western society to be a significant impact. So, when the argument is made that Islam is violent and intolerant, you try and use that same "INSIGNIFICANT" group of Muslims as proof that it is not....... A little inconsistancy there.
When a point is made that Islam is violent and intolerant, you want to compare it Christianity. Well when I do the comparisons you will not acknowledge the differences. In time, or in teachers, or in teachings, but you insist on comparing...another inconsistancy.
Now, I got Cam saying as an argument that it is none of my business how Islam acts, because I am not a Muslim, but apparently thsat only applies to me, since he is not Palestinian or Jewish yet he is very opinionated and verbal about their conflict and who he thinks is right and wrong.( still haven't gotten a response to that counter point yet)
I post a site which lists several articles written by ex-muslims, you know people who lived the life, this was dismissed by Serge and everyone else as biased and half truths, but for the real info about this religion and culture one only needs to turn to our very own Poseidon on this gaming forum.....yet again inconsistant.
I would not get accused of "GENERALIZING" from any of you if I said the Nazi Party is violent and intolerant of Jews, even though the truth is the majority of them probably didn't kill any Jews or have anything to with it, but since you are in agreement with me that Nazis suck, I will not be painted with that brush. A little inconsistant there as well.
you guys are all over the spectrum on this one. Ya just can't say yeah, Islam is one fucked up violent and intolerant religion, but I have met some nice Muslims.