lowing wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
lowing wrote:
Ummmmmm, so this video is a complete falsehood, misleading and a pack of lies huh??
It appears, to me, to be a distortion of the truth at the very least.
Please point out those parts that are distorted or if it all is distored please explain how.
I really can't be arsed to type out essentially the same things as Braddock posted, so I'll let him answer for me:
Braddock wrote:
Okay, I'll start with the editing...It is to be commended for it's non-sensationalist approach and it doesn't use any atmospheric music to put a slant on any of the segments (Michael Moore could take note!) so no complaints there.
In relation to the speakers...Robert Spencer's views have to be taken with a pinch of salt as he has often been criticized, not only by obvious opponents such as CAIR, but by respected journalists like Brian Whitaker (Middle Eastern Editor for The Guardian, who himself has a degree in Arabic from the university of Westminster) and Dinesh D'Souza and religious experts such as Karen Armstrong for obsessively pursuing an agenda that seeks to present only the negative elements of Islam (a look through his bibliography gives you an idea of his particular take on things). The same could be said about Bat Ye'Or (a Jewish woman), these people have even been described in certain academic circles as 'crack pots', though that may be going a bit far.
Early on in the film Bat Ye'Or makes reference to Islamic expansionism. This expansionist element to Islam that she describes is no different to the expansionist attitude of Israel (as symbolised by their flag), who themselves have a state that favours one creed and faith over others (another criticism made about the Islamic faith - recognition of one faith as superior to others).
The film proves that the Koran is contradictory in places (like we didn't know that!). Certain verses (verses which are not organised chronologically) suggest religious freedom for all people while other verses suggest intolerance towards other faiths. Walid Shoebat points out that it's the extremist schools of thought that claim the 'verse of the Sword' nullifies the peaceful verses, more moderate schools of thought do not necessarily not follow this. The film says the Koran supposedly claims that after Ramadan Muslims should actively seek to kill non-believers...I have mixed with Muslims immediately after Ramadan and never once has an attempt been made on my life - that would suggest there are multiple interpretations of that particular part in that case (or lots of lazy Muslims who don't carry out their religious duties!). The overall impression I get of the Koran from this film is how human Mohammed obviously was and how his statements and claims got more vitriolic and self-satisfied as his position of importance within the world rose (sounds like he was a bit of a dick tbh).
Serge Trifkovic makes the assertion that the Islamic nations are in a state of perpetual battle with other nations, well the exact same thing can be applied to America post WW2...Vietnam, Korea, Central and South America, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing missions in Somalia and so on and so on. He appears to have a very selective view of world conflict, claiming that if all the Islamic-led battles are taken out of the equation the world "is a pretty peaceful place" (57:38 in the film); he seems happy to completely discount tribal conflicts in Rwanda, Congo and other parts of Africa, battles between the Colombian Government and leftist guerillas, the Tibetan struggle for independence against the Chinese, The Shining Path movement in Peru, Basque separatism in Spain etc. etc.
Similarly Trifkovic goes on to make the connection between Islam and Communism and their similar desire to spread throughout the entire world. The same could be said about American Capitalism (the other side of the cold war coin). America has been notorious in it's meddling attempts to 'democratise' the rest of the world. The American empire is even more violent in this regard because it has recently stepped up a gear in this quest, going from covert support of rebellions in these countries to actual declarations of war (as seen in Iraq and Afghanistan).
At 01:04 Trifkovic starts to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Everything he says about the Muslims 'knowing how to play the game' with the Western world in their quest to gain control sounds just the same as someone talking about the Jewish/Zionist conspiracy for world domination.
At 01:21 we get to see a rather intimidating Muslim public protest. When I was last in London I saw a public gathering of a similar scale where smiling, friendly Muslims were giving out free DVDs about moderate interpretations of Islam so there's always two sides to every coin.
At one point in the film a fairly woeful association between Nazism and Islam is made by drawing the obvious parallel between the terms 'Jihad' and 'Mein Kampf' simply because they both mean 'My Struggle'; the speaker doesn't follow the thought any further than the fact that they simply translate the same.
Finally and most importantly...
The film is 1 hour and 39 minutes long and only in the last ten minutes does it posit that American interference in the Middle East may be a possible cause for heightened tensions between Middle Eastern and Western culture. It tip toes around the issue a few times but never once does it ask what effect does American bombing missions and invasions have on the mentality of the average Middle Eastern Muslim, a pretty important factor when you're judging the attitudes of a large religious cross section. The very brief handling of this topic consists of Spencer dismissing out of hand the possibility that recent American history has anything to do with the 'battle' between Islam and the West claiming that the battle has been raging for years irrespective of recent conflicts. On the whole the film panders to the Islamophobic mentality by looking at only the very worst elements of the Islamic world while ignoring examples of moderate Islamic states like Turkey, where church and state are separate and serves to create a view that supports the idea of an impending Muslim apocalypse. I do agree that old school hardline interpretations of Islam have no place in the Western world but I honestly feel that Muslims are not actively trying to infiltrate Europe in an attempt to sneak it in under our feet, it's conspiracy theory nonsense and such a thing would take so long to implement I'd be long dead before it became a reality.
