FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6339|Glendale, CA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms … f_marriage

The remnants of older, arguably antiquated, ideas can be found in today's wedding ceremonies and traditional practices. For example, women may be symbolically "given away" by their fathers. Some brides vow to "love and obey" their husbands and some grooms vow to "care for" their wives. A groom might remove his bride's garter, a symbol of her virginity, as a public representation of his claim on her sexuality.

I dislike many of the traditions that go back to an idea of the girl as simple breeding stock.  For example, the concept of "giving away" the bride.  Back in ancient times, the woman's new husband was seen as a 'guardian', replacing her father, and with the ability to cut off all her ties with her family.  Our society refuses to grow up - why don't we wash off the thousand year old stain from our shirts, and let go of archaic little traditions?

Until either the late 1800s or early 1900s in America, a woman who was married could not own property, and her husband had the legal right to be able to hit her if she was 'out of line'.  Today men and women in America are almost nearly equal in a legal sense, yet society has a different view.  There are men who think their wives are property, and there are communities who think in the 1800s.  Conservatives want to re-instate all this bullcrap.  Sure, many people ditch all the traditions, but this is a critique of those traditions.

I'll probably write a longer blog with more profanity, but generally I wanted to express my opinion of this whole subject.  Feel free to share.  This isn't about the choice to do these, it's about the traditions themselves.  Also - maybe someone can give me a GOOD reason why marriage is important and can't be substituted for a couple just being together.

Last edited by FallenMorgan (2008-04-10 14:20:52)

SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6555|North Tonawanda, NY
Some of these are just traditions, and hold very little (if any) meaning in today's world.  Like having the father walk down the aisle with his daughter.  That doesn't mean 'I'm giving you away' anymore.

Edit:
You can forgo the religious and traditional marriage with a civil ceremony.

FallenMorgan wrote:

Also - maybe someone can give me a GOOD reason why marriage is important and can't be substituted for a couple just being together.
Also, there are a lot of legal benefits and protections afforded to married couples.  If you are just living together, you need to do so for a period of time before you are common law married.

Last edited by SenorToenails (2008-04-10 14:31:11)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7197|PNW

If marriage ceremony is denigrating to women, then how come it is women who want all the fluffery associated with it? Besides which, Toenails is right. Many of these archaic traditions no longer mean what they used to, and many people hardly give them a second thought (i.e., 'one nation, under God').
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6339|Glendale, CA

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

If marriage ceremony is denigrating to women, then how come it is women who want all the fluffery associated with it? Besides which, Toenails is right. Many of these archaic traditions no longer mean what they used to, and many people hardly give them a second thought (i.e., 'one nation, under God').
The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6555|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6339|Glendale, CA

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
Yes they are being brainwashed.  You think it's so cute that every little girl wants to get married some day?  How 'bout I rephrase this:

Every little girl wants to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants.

Most of these girls who subscribe to the fairy-tale bullshit seem to seek after older sucessful men, so that he can work and she doesn't have to, and she can just take care of the kids and bullshit.  I think that's crap.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6872|Chicago, IL

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
quite.


Modern marriage is more an expression of commitment than a religious ceremony, and I do indeed plan to get married and live happily ever after. Although the whole ceremony means little to me, I have every intention of eventually holding one, even if it only serves as a pseudo family reunion (always a blast) and a "give me $$$, I'm married" ceremony.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6555|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

Yes they are being brainwashed.  You think it's so cute that every little girl wants to get married some day?  How 'bout I rephrase this:

Every little girl wants to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants.

Most of these girls who subscribe to the fairy-tale bullshit seem to seek after older sucessful men, so that he can work and she doesn't have to, and she can just take care of the kids and bullshit.  I think that's crap.
So you have a grudge against 'gold diggers'?  Newsflash:  Most women don't do that.

I disagree that little girls are being brainwashed into wanting "to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants".

Marriage is symbol (as S.Lythberg said) and nothing more.  There is nothing wrong with it.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6819|The Gem Saloon

FallenMorgan wrote:

Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.
you little rebel, you.


so you dont agree with it, then dont get married. most people do, as its the normal thing to do....i know, seeing "the normal thing" makes you want to rebel in the form of text over the internets, but most people would like to settle down, GET MARRIED and raise a family.
you may yet understand this when you get older.

blog away.
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6339|Glendale, CA

Parker wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.
you little rebel, you.


so you dont agree with it, then dont get married. most people do, as its the normal thing to do....i know, seeing "the normal thing" makes you want to rebel in the form of text over the internets, but most people would like to settle down, GET MARRIED and raise a family.
you may yet understand this when you get older.

blog away.
Most people feel compelled by society to "settle down" and have kids.  If none of my dreams come true, I just want to get an apartment and live out the rest of my life how I please.  I don't work well with others, especially when those others might be a bitchy girl I'm largely stuck with, or an annoying kid.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7074

FallenMorgan wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
Every little girl wants to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants.
You're crazy if you think marriage is like that. If anything it's the opposite.
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6993|Mountains of NC

FallenMorgan wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
Yes they are being brainwashed.  You think it's so cute that every little girl wants to get married some day?  How 'bout I rephrase this:

Every little girl wants to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants.

Most of these girls who subscribe to the fairy-tale bullshit seem to seek after older sucessful men, so that he can work and she doesn't have to, and she can just take care of the kids and bullshit.  I think that's crap.
sounds like someone got left at the alter
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6555|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

Most people feel compelled by society to "settle down" and have kids.  If none of my dreams come true, I just want to get an apartment and live out the rest of my life how I please.  I don't work well with others, especially when those others might be a bitchy girl I'm largely stuck with, or an annoying kid.
So, because it is a societal norm, it has to be bad?

As for you living in an apartment for the rest of your life ... what's stopping you?
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6870|The Land of Scott Walker
There is nothing more beautiful than a good marriage.  Is my marriage perfect?  Heck no.  That doesn't mean I should toss it instead of working on it.   Are women annoying at times?  Yes, but the good far outweighs the bad.  For the record I have never seen a more beautiful sight than when my bride stepped into view on her stepfather's arm.  And no, I never saw my wife as property I was receiving, gimme a break.  Any man that thinks that now days will never get past the 1st date.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6912|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Its funny a 16yr old saying marriage is old fashion.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6819|The Gem Saloon

SgtHeihn wrote:

Its funny a 16yr old saying marriage is old fashion.
seriously, this kid is 16?

i mean, i knew he was young, but come on!
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6967|Texas - Bigger than France

FallenMorgan wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_the_institution_of_marriage

The remnants of older, arguably antiquated, ideas can be found in today's wedding ceremonies and traditional practices. For example, women may be symbolically "given away" by their fathers. Some brides vow to "love and obey" their husbands and some grooms vow to "care for" their wives. A groom might remove his bride's garter, a symbol of her virginity, as a public representation of his claim on her sexuality.

I dislike many of the traditions that go back to an idea of the girl as simple breeding stock.  For example, the concept of "giving away" the bride.  Back in ancient times, the woman's new husband was seen as a 'guardian', replacing her father, and with the ability to cut off all her ties with her family.  Our society refuses to grow up - why don't we wash off the thousand year old stain from our shirts, and let go of archaic little traditions?

Until either the late 1800s or early 1900s in America, a woman who was married could not own property, and her husband had the legal right to be able to hit her if she was 'out of line'.  Today men and women in America are almost nearly equal in a legal sense, yet society has a different view.  There are men who think their wives are property, and there are communities who think in the 1800s.  Conservatives want to re-instate all this bullcrap.  Sure, many people ditch all the traditions, but this is a critique of those traditions.

I'll probably write a longer blog with more profanity, but generally I wanted to express my opinion of this whole subject.  Feel free to share.  This isn't about the choice to do these, it's about the traditions themselves.  Also - maybe someone can give me a GOOD reason why marriage is important and can't be substituted for a couple just being together.
do you have a lot of experience in being in a long term relationship?

i wanna know if you are an expert.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6912|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Parker wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

Its funny a 16yr old saying marriage is old fashion.
seriously, this kid is 16?

i mean, i knew he was young, but come on!
Yup, said it in one of his first threads.


Also I have been married once before and and am going to get married again(I am living with her now)

Marriage now is a a bond not a subservient set of shackles for a women. If I told my girl to get up and make me a sandwich because you must honor me, she would tell me to fuck off and to get the hell out.
chittydog
less busy
+586|7260|Kubra, Damn it!

Pug wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_the_institution_of_marriage

The remnants of older, arguably antiquated, ideas can be found in today's wedding ceremonies and traditional practices. For example, women may be symbolically "given away" by their fathers. Some brides vow to "love and obey" their husbands and some grooms vow to "care for" their wives. A groom might remove his bride's garter, a symbol of her virginity, as a public representation of his claim on her sexuality.

I dislike many of the traditions that go back to an idea of the girl as simple breeding stock.  For example, the concept of "giving away" the bride.  Back in ancient times, the woman's new husband was seen as a 'guardian', replacing her father, and with the ability to cut off all her ties with her family.  Our society refuses to grow up - why don't we wash off the thousand year old stain from our shirts, and let go of archaic little traditions?

Until either the late 1800s or early 1900s in America, a woman who was married could not own property, and her husband had the legal right to be able to hit her if she was 'out of line'.  Today men and women in America are almost nearly equal in a legal sense, yet society has a different view.  There are men who think their wives are property, and there are communities who think in the 1800s.  Conservatives want to re-instate all this bullcrap.  Sure, many people ditch all the traditions, but this is a critique of those traditions.

I'll probably write a longer blog with more profanity, but generally I wanted to express my opinion of this whole subject.  Feel free to share.  This isn't about the choice to do these, it's about the traditions themselves.  Also - maybe someone can give me a GOOD reason why marriage is important and can't be substituted for a couple just being together.
do you have a lot of experience in being in a long term relationship?

i wanna know if you are an expert.
If he's 16, the answer is no.

If you don't agree with marriage, don't get married. Easy as pie.
Ratzinger
Member
+43|6817|Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Together 24 years, 1 child, NO WEDDING, I try not to participate in pointless exercises.....









Except for posting on these forums.

Last edited by Ratzinger (2008-04-10 16:11:42)

Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6424|The Mitten

FallenMorgan wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The ones who go crazy and want it to be perfect are the ones who have been brainwashed to feel they can only be happy if they're married.  Seriously, I'm sick of five year old girls dreaming of their wedding day.  Many little girl princess stories end with them getting married and living 'happily ever after.'  That's the major thing that's wrong with society.
So they are brainwashed because they don't think the same as you?
Yes they are being brainwashed.  You think it's so cute that every little girl wants to get married some day?  How 'bout I rephrase this:

Every little girl wants to make some lazy older guy a sandwich and be there for sex whenever he wants.

Most of these girls who subscribe to the fairy-tale bullshit seem to seek after older sucessful men, so that he can work and she doesn't have to, and she can just take care of the kids and bullshit.  I think that's crap.
I think that's smart investing, tbh.
EE (hats
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina
Most traditions are nothing more than repetitive actions designed to give people comfort.  That being said, things like marriage are necessary for the simple fact that most people are incapable of the kind of self-control and patience that monogamy requires without having some kind of societal pressure on them to hold onto their union.

I often find myself getting bored and restless after a mere matter of months into a relationship -- I can't even fathom what being with someone for years upon years would be like.  Yet, I know that if I were to tie the knot with my "soul mate", I'd do everything possible to keep things together.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6954|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

Most traditions are nothing more than repetitive actions designed to give people comfort.  That being said, things like marriage are necessary for the simple fact that most people are incapable of the kind of self-control and patience that monogamy requires without having some kind of societal pressure on them to hold onto their union.

I often find myself getting bored and restless after a mere matter of months into a relationship -- I can't even fathom what being with someone for years upon years would be like. Yet, I know that if I were to tie the knot with my "soul mate", I'd do everything possible to keep things together.
It's a combination of knowing how to work each other better than strangers ever could and visualization.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6715|Éire

Stingray24 wrote:

There is nothing more beautiful than a good marriage.  Is my marriage perfect?  Heck no.  That doesn't mean I should toss it instead of working on it.   Are women annoying at times?  Yes, but the good far outweighs the bad.  For the record I have never seen a more beautiful sight than when my bride stepped into view on her stepfather's arm.  And no, I never saw my wife as property I was receiving, gimme a break.  Any man that thinks that now days will never get past the 1st date.
Marriage as an institution (religion aside) has a lot of good points. There is the sense of security it provides for any children that might be brought into the family and I'm sure there are plenty of tax aspects that make marriage good sense. On a symbolic level (again, religion aside) it is also nice.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6715|Éire
Not to mention the pay day it provides for flower and cake companies...


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