I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.PureFodder wrote:
In the west it's obvious that fossil fuels are running out and so alternatives are being persued such as wind, solar and nuclear energy.
Unless the middle east secretly contains unlimited fossil fuels, they too will need to move to things like nuclear, wind, solar of which nuclear is the most tried, tested and reliable method. Remember that Iran has done nothing wrong. As signitories of the NPT they have the right to make nuclear fuel for civillian use. Also remember that getting Iran nuclear power is an American plan and relied chiefly on US support.
We have nuclear power and are planning to make more of it, does this automatically mean we're trying to make some kind of superweapon capable of destroying the planet?
There's no evidence against Iran, just hysteria. If you want to see some impressively concerning developments regarding the proliferation of WMDs then go look at the US's recent record of puling out of almost every WMD related treaty signed. That's scary.
France, Germany, and most of the Gulf States would disagree with your assessment.PureFodder wrote:
There's no evidence against Iran, just hysteria.
Could've sworn the OP was about Iran...PureFodder wrote:
If you want to see some impressively concerning developments regarding the proliferation of WMDs then go look at the US's recent record of puling out of almost every WMD related treaty signed. That's scary.
Israel have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
Yeah so what is one more crazy nation with nukes? I get the picture, now what is your point? Iran wants to share nukes with every nation assumably that is sympathetic to its cause. You really see no problem with that?Bertster7 wrote:
Israel have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
The Russians have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The Chinese have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The North Koreans have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The Pakistanis have nukes. They're.....
..... well, you get the picture.
Since when has Iran been crazy? Remember that Ahmenejad isn't the supreme leader of Iran.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.PureFodder wrote:
In the west it's obvious that fossil fuels are running out and so alternatives are being persued such as wind, solar and nuclear energy.
Unless the middle east secretly contains unlimited fossil fuels, they too will need to move to things like nuclear, wind, solar of which nuclear is the most tried, tested and reliable method. Remember that Iran has done nothing wrong. As signitories of the NPT they have the right to make nuclear fuel for civillian use. Also remember that getting Iran nuclear power is an American plan and relied chiefly on US support.
We have nuclear power and are planning to make more of it, does this automatically mean we're trying to make some kind of superweapon capable of destroying the planet?
There's no evidence against Iran, just hysteria. If you want to see some impressively concerning developments regarding the proliferation of WMDs then go look at the US's recent record of puling out of almost every WMD related treaty signed. That's scary.
Perhaps we pulled out of these treaties because the reality is, no one would honor it anyway?
I agree, so the answer is to give nukes to ALL of ISLAM?!PureFodder wrote:
Since when has Iran been crazy? Remember that Ahmenejad isn't the supreme leader of Iran.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.PureFodder wrote:
In the west it's obvious that fossil fuels are running out and so alternatives are being persued such as wind, solar and nuclear energy.
Unless the middle east secretly contains unlimited fossil fuels, they too will need to move to things like nuclear, wind, solar of which nuclear is the most tried, tested and reliable method. Remember that Iran has done nothing wrong. As signitories of the NPT they have the right to make nuclear fuel for civillian use. Also remember that getting Iran nuclear power is an American plan and relied chiefly on US support.
We have nuclear power and are planning to make more of it, does this automatically mean we're trying to make some kind of superweapon capable of destroying the planet?
There's no evidence against Iran, just hysteria. If you want to see some impressively concerning developments regarding the proliferation of WMDs then go look at the US's recent record of puling out of almost every WMD related treaty signed. That's scary.
Perhaps we pulled out of these treaties because the reality is, no one would honor it anyway?
Most of the WMD related treaties have been followed very well by the great majority of the worlds countries. Remember that if the US decides to ratchet up it's WMDs, stick them in space, make mini-nukes, research bio-weapons or anti-ballistic missile systems then Russia has to respond to the threat, China responds to the Russian threat, India responds to China, Pakistan responds to India and everyone else reacts to all the nuclear states. The US sytem has encountered many false alarms and fuck-ups. The Russian system is presumably far more old and decrepid. If nuclear proliferation continues at some point someone will fuck up and that'll be the end of the species.
The IAEA found no evidence of it and they're the experts.FEOS wrote:
France, Germany, and most of the Gulf States would disagree with your assessment.PureFodder wrote:
There's no evidence against Iran, just hysteria.
No discussion about nuclear weapons, fuel or proliferation can pretend that Iran is an isolated nation and there's nothing going on in the rest of the world. The basis of the NPT was that the non-nuke owning countries will not make nukes on the basis that they can get access to nuclear power and that the nuke owners would make good faith efforts to eliminate nuclear weapons. You can't bitch at Iran for supposedly breaking the NPT while your country (as well as all the nuke owning countries) are definitely breaking it unless you're a complete hypocrite.FEOS wrote:
Could've sworn the OP was about Iran...PureFodder wrote:
If you want to see some impressively concerning developments regarding the proliferation of WMDs then go look at the US's recent record of puling out of almost every WMD related treaty signed. That's scary.
Of course I see a problem with that. I don't want Iran to have nukes. Nor do I want the chance of nuclear material becoming more widely available. Both of these things are bad.lowing wrote:
Yeah so what is one more crazy nation with nukes? I get the picture, now what is your point? Iran wants to share nukes with every nation assumably that is sympathetic to its cause. You really see no problem with that?Bertster7 wrote:
Israel have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
The Russians have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The Chinese have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The North Koreans have nukes. They're pretty damn crazy.
The Pakistanis have nukes. They're.....
..... well, you get the picture.
That's not exactly true. Have you read the terms of the NPT?PureFodder wrote:
You can't bitch at Iran for supposedly breaking the NPT while your country (as well as all the nuke owning countries) are definitely breaking it unless you're a complete hypocrite.
No, the answer is to put ALL fissile material into international hands and use an international body to make and supply nuclear fuel to any country that has genuine need for nuclear fuel for civillian power plants. A proposal that Iran actually openly supports.lowing wrote:
I agree, so the answer is to give nukes to ALL of ISLAM?!PureFodder wrote:
Since when has Iran been crazy? Remember that Ahmenejad isn't the supreme leader of Iran.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
Perhaps we pulled out of these treaties because the reality is, no one would honor it anyway?
Most of the WMD related treaties have been followed very well by the great majority of the worlds countries. Remember that if the US decides to ratchet up it's WMDs, stick them in space, make mini-nukes, research bio-weapons or anti-ballistic missile systems then Russia has to respond to the threat, China responds to the Russian threat, India responds to China, Pakistan responds to India and everyone else reacts to all the nuclear states. The US sytem has encountered many false alarms and fuck-ups. The Russian system is presumably far more old and decrepid. If nuclear proliferation continues at some point someone will fuck up and that'll be the end of the species.
Ya mean an organization governed by the world kinda like..............the UN? I do not endorse such a move as I do not endorse the US being in a position to have to rely on other countries for its own progress. Since basically the US dumps most of the money into R & D for shit the world uses.PureFodder wrote:
No, the answer is to put ALL fissile material into international hands and use an international body to make and supply nuclear fuel to any country that has genuine need for nuclear fuel for civillian power plants. A proposal that Iran actually openly supports.lowing wrote:
I agree, so the answer is to give nukes to ALL of ISLAM?!PureFodder wrote:
Since when has Iran been crazy? Remember that Ahmenejad isn't the supreme leader of Iran.
Most of the WMD related treaties have been followed very well by the great majority of the worlds countries. Remember that if the US decides to ratchet up it's WMDs, stick them in space, make mini-nukes, research bio-weapons or anti-ballistic missile systems then Russia has to respond to the threat, China responds to the Russian threat, India responds to China, Pakistan responds to India and everyone else reacts to all the nuclear states. The US sytem has encountered many false alarms and fuck-ups. The Russian system is presumably far more old and decrepid. If nuclear proliferation continues at some point someone will fuck up and that'll be the end of the species.
The US shouldn't have to rely on on other countries for it's own progress, but Iran should? All this means is that the fuel will come from an international body and the US will apply for fuel and get it as long as it's for civillian use. All the reactors and technology will remain in US control.lowing wrote:
Ya mean an organization governed by the world kinda like..............the UN? I do not endorse such a move as I do not endorse the US being in a position to have to rely on other countries for its own progress. Since basically the US dumps most of the money into R & D for shit the world uses.PureFodder wrote:
No, the answer is to put ALL fissile material into international hands and use an international body to make and supply nuclear fuel to any country that has genuine need for nuclear fuel for civillian power plants. A proposal that Iran actually openly supports.lowing wrote:
I agree, so the answer is to give nukes to ALL of ISLAM?!
Nope the US should not have to beg to use technology IT developed. Any world body that was given such power would be abused if nothing else than politically. No thanks.PureFodder wrote:
The US shouldn't have to rely on on other countries for it's own progress, but Iran should? All this means is that the fuel will come from an international body and the US will apply for fuel and get it as long as it's for civillian use. All the reactors and technology will remain in US control.lowing wrote:
Ya mean an organization governed by the world kinda like..............the UN? I do not endorse such a move as I do not endorse the US being in a position to have to rely on other countries for its own progress. Since basically the US dumps most of the money into R & D for shit the world uses.PureFodder wrote:
No, the answer is to put ALL fissile material into international hands and use an international body to make and supply nuclear fuel to any country that has genuine need for nuclear fuel for civillian power plants. A proposal that Iran actually openly supports.
Iran is crazy? That's your response? I'd like to see you explain why Iran's government is crazier than any other government including your own, especially countries that own nukes already.lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
Perhaps we pulled out of these treaties because the reality is, no one would honor it anyway?
So in this case what might the USA's interests be for signing out of nukes treaties?FEOS wrote:
I agree that if a country pulls out or doesn't honor a given treaty, it shouldn't bitch about others doing the same. It does, however, always maintain the right to protect its interests...which could mean pulling out of or not honoring a given treaty. Just shouldn't bitch about others doing it. imo.
By that logic, countries that developed other WMDs, chemical and biological weapons, for example, should be allowed to use them. Countries like the UK (who traded chemical weapons research for nuclear weapons research with the US - VX for nukes I think it was).lowing wrote:
Nope the US should not have to beg to use technology IT developed. Any world body that was given such power would be abused if nothing else than politically. No thanks.
Also why should a country like the US that did all of the leg work to make such technology possible all of a sudden have to ask for permission to use it?
Because failing to resolve the issue of nuclear weapons and nuclear fuel is probably the most serious threat to the US and the rest of the world's populace. On an interesting note, the US polulace and the Iranian populace are in good agreement on the issue. They both believe that Iran should have niclear power but not nuclear weapons. Giving up some of world power commanded by the nuclear countries to ensure the survival of the species seems like a pretty reasonable stance. If the issues around nukes and nuclear power aren't solved at some point someone or something will fuck up and we'll all die. Not a very nice situation to pass on to our kids.lowing wrote:
Nope the US should not have to beg to use technology IT developed. Any world body that was given such power would be abused if nothing else than politically. No thanks.PureFodder wrote:
The US shouldn't have to rely on on other countries for it's own progress, but Iran should? All this means is that the fuel will come from an international body and the US will apply for fuel and get it as long as it's for civillian use. All the reactors and technology will remain in US control.lowing wrote:
Ya mean an organization governed by the world kinda like..............the UN? I do not endorse such a move as I do not endorse the US being in a position to have to rely on other countries for its own progress. Since basically the US dumps most of the money into R & D for shit the world uses.
Also why should a country like the US that did all of the leg work to make such technology possible all of a sudden have to ask for permission to use it?
I don't know. But the people who made the decision certainly felt it was worth the blowback politically.oug wrote:
So in this case what might the USA's interests be for signing out of nukes treaties?FEOS wrote:
I agree that if a country pulls out or doesn't honor a given treaty, it shouldn't bitch about others doing the same. It does, however, always maintain the right to protect its interests...which could mean pulling out of or not honoring a given treaty. Just shouldn't bitch about others doing it. imo.
Please remind us how many nations have used nuclear weapons on civilian targets in - say - the last 100 years?Lowing wrote:
I would agree with you except for the small point that Iran is crazy, and crazy nations ought not play with nukes.
If the Iranians can develop it themselves why should they need to ask for permission?Also why should a country like the US that did all of the leg work to make such technology possible all of a sudden have to ask for permission to use it?
The US signs up to a lot of stuff it then ignores.So in this case what might the USA's interests be for signing out of nukes treaties?
