ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command
China owns $340 billion of Fannie and Freddie mortgage-backed securities -
That's odd. China is a major player in a set of companies that are bankrupt and folding. These investments by China were probably encouraged by our government. http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/09/0 … olders-by/

And Chinese mega banks are biding on Lehman. Crazy stuff.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f3586ede-80ca … 07658.html


The U.S. government seems content to sit by while the dollars value plummets. Every lowering of the prime rate increases the odds of inflation and further devalues the dollar. Why? Because " if the U.S. sneezes the world catches a cold. "

The U.S. government seems willing to bring economic havoc to it's own people if on the odd chance it may slow down the Chinese economy, er...something.

Last edited by ATG (2008-09-13 00:54:15)

Laika
Member
+75|6363
To me it seems that America needs smarter leaders and a more educated public in order to correct our problems. This is why I think our educational system blows, we aren't taught about the stuff the really matters; like the kind of stuff you just posted. Most of what I have learned in 11.5 years of school isn't worth shit. Future generations need to learn about important world matters and how to solve global/national problems, not fucking trigonometry.
TSI
Cholera in the time of love
+247|6400|Toronto

Ataronchronon wrote:

To me it seems that America needs smarter leaders and a more educated public in order to correct our problems. This is why I think our educational system blows, we aren't taught about the stuff the really matters; like the kind of stuff you just posted. Most of what I have learned in 11.5 years of school isn't worth shit. Future generations need to learn about important world matters and how to solve global/national problems, not fucking trigonometry.
Indeed so. Where has the art of rhetoric gone? What about political systems? Where is the business management/data managenment course?
I beseech you, see our schools as the useless messes they are. It's been proven all the math we will ever use (for the majority, that is) has been learned by grade 7. I don't need to know how to dolve matrices, I've got a fucking calculator. What about chemistry? Will I ever care to know what the empirical formula or the STP value of a gaseous compiund is? NO!!
Get on to it, government. The school of life is failing you, and we aren't far behind.
I like pie.
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6872|Ontario, Canada
I think the best part was "if the U.S. sneezes the world catches a cold." lol, its so true.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7020|132 and Bush

d4rkst4r wrote:

I think the best part was "if the U.S. sneezes the world catches a cold." lol, its so true.

pierro wrote:

(Cold's are short annoyances and this one won't be an exception))
lol.. nice.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command

pierro wrote:

There's alot to address in the OP, but I think I should speak to the fact that you are assuming alot of competition (against China, for resources, with the education etc...) but this is simply not the case, other nations doing better helps the United States, they are not competing for pieces of the pie, alhtough Americans are doing worse comparitively to other nations, they are getting better in absolute terms. The fact that the rest of the world is catching up so quickly is a blessing, things will and have been improving but not as much as they should be...Americans don't need heroes to avoid seeing some of the failings: that the primary education system is a mess, that there are to many subsidies for the wrong things, that the politicians are all trained liars lawyers etc... because the quality of life will improve because of the (relatively) stable economic framework. Although there alot of problems with the United States, America is a country great enough so that even GWB couldn't take it off the rails. Sure there'll be a slight downturn due to the subprime mortgage crisis, but that was because of overspending (low interest rates because a partisan hack used to lead the fed, a poor taxation scheme and not enough regulation of certain finnancial institutions) which is being fixed or can be fixed easily...and even then it will be, at worst, the equivalent of the dot com bubble bursting (Cold's are short annoyances and this one won't be an exception)...to sum it up, although we may not be headed in the perfect direction and although there will be hard times ahead, the future looks bright (so i gotta wear shades)
Post more often.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6910|Northern California
Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7051|949

ATG wrote:

The U.S. government seems content to sit by while the dollars value plummets. Every lowering of the prime rate increases the odds of inflation and further devalues the dollar. Why? Because " if the U.S. sneezes the world catches a cold. "

The U.S. government seems willing to bring economic havoc to it's own people if on the odd chance it may slow down the Chinese economy, er...something.

Our leaders are subsidizing ethanol and mandating that a certain percentage of our national intake of fuels be from corn when it is ruining food prices among the worlds poor. I posit that if left unchecked, this will be a pogrom that will lead to the starvation of tens of millions. Why?

What other answer can there be that there is a paranoia that if the worlds population is not culled there will not be enough resources to go around?

Vast tracts of land could be farmed. The U.S. could export enough grain and rice to feed the world. Nuclear desalination plants could be built, eliminating a big cause of pollution ( coal fired energy ) and transforming barren ground to farmable land with fresh water. But we don't.

The Jewish people have perfected the art of green house farming. If the Arab populations would adopt some of the concepts like green house farming, and the Jews would help them get them going and they worked together towards  law and order and democracy of a sort the world would not seem half as dangerous. But they don't.

Governments could work together, yet we are drawn back to warfare, always.



Why some nations create war.
The people of some nations actually create war (or support it) in their quest to express a sense of nationalistic heroism. Failing nations need heroes, and when those heroes are no longer found in the realms of science, art, politics or global achievement, they will be fabricated from the false victories of war.

The tearful American mom whose son dies in Iraq is, indeed, suffering a tremendous personal loss, but her loss is a necessary part of feeding the population's desire to proclaim there are heroes among them. Through the sacrificing of young men who are killed in Iraq, the people of America can find common connection, righteousness, and purpose where none existed before. War gives meaning to empty lives, and it delivers a masochistic form of entertainment to those who are too young, too old or too wealthy to participate. This is precisely why, throughout human history, the leaders of failing nations have habitually turned to military imperialism as a method to distract the people from far more serious problems at home. When the sons of a nation are returning home in body bags, nobody pays much attention to failures in education or the economy.
Kind of odd how the world seems suddenly heading towards real economic hard times, and major issues regarding food and water, which could be the trigger for a big war. That's often what they surmise the next wars will be about. Countries are openly discussing lobbing nukes around. Californias foreclosure "surge": Up 327% from '07 levels indicating the meltdown is picking up speed. I argue that the homes prices have been falsely elevated to facilitate an economic collapse.


3 years, eight months  from now. What do you think the world will be like?


2012. We collectively, seem hell bent on fulfilling the prophecies of doom and ruin.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/imf-al … 90977.html


my apolgies to kmarion for another doom and gloom thread.
Ah, I love the classic ATG super post of tangents somehow interconnected to a "the world is doomed" worldview.

The US government is run by power elite.  That group has its own best interests in mind for the most part.  Simple economic and social concessions (much like FDR enacted with the New Deal) create a buffer through the middle class between the elites and the poor.  The position occupied by the government (on virtually all levels of federal and to some extent state government) in regards to fiscal policy is very contrived, and not in a way that benefits you and me (everyday people; middle class) and most certainly is detrimental to the poorest people.  As long as they (power elite) can shore up their power through fiscal policy, and the taxpayers fail to hold them to task for massive bailouts and detrimental action, the status-quo will change minimally.

What we need is for power to be consolidated among the people as a whole, not funnelled to an elite minority.

The population growth vs. arable land argument has been going on at least since Thomas Malthus theorized on it.  Feel free to look at the numerous threads in this section debating the possible solutions and consequences.

The idea of war and it's effect on society and the control of resources both have been debated endlessly throughout the world and on this website too - feel free to check out those discussions.  If you would like I could spend about 10 minutes of my time posting links to those very discussions.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

The US government is run by power elite.  That group has its own best interests in mind for the most part.  Simple economic and social concessions (much like FDR enacted with the New Deal) create a buffer through the middle class between the elites and the poor.  The position occupied by the government (on virtually all levels of federal and to some extent state government) in regards to fiscal policy is very contrived, and not in a way that benefits you and me (everyday people; middle class) and most certainly is detrimental to the poorest people.  As long as they (power elite) can shore up their power through fiscal policy, and the taxpayers fail to hold them to task for massive bailouts and detrimental action, the status-quo will change minimally.

What we need is for power to be consolidated among the people as a whole, not funnelled to an elite minority.
Ken, you make some good observations but offer no way to achieve change, nor what to change to. You seem like the ' cynically optimistic ' type. Meaning one who is cynical about the state of the world, but optimistic about your own prospects.

What about median income vrs. median home prices?

I may be a semi-hinged militant kookball, but you sir are a wannabe limousine liberal. It may not reflected in your income, but prevails in your views.

Funny how some people here get on my case when I get pessimistic, then often go right a head and make a pessimistic post whilst offering no argument on how to achieve a change.


Old topics are irrelevant. Situations change.  Maybe you should review all my " we're doomed " threads, compare them to reality and try and convince me how I'm wrong.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7020|132 and Bush

Americans have had fallen into a comfort zone. A pre-requisite for a successful democracy is the need for the people to pay attention to government. Ultimately it is their job to hold representatives accountable. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. When things are going well we live our lives without the slightest interest in politics. When Americans feel the sting of their own ignorance they rally in mass for change. It's time to wake the sleeping giant.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7051|949

ATG wrote:

Ken, you make some good observations but offer no way to achieve change, nor what to change to. You seem like the ' cynically optimistic ' type. Meaning one who is cynical about the state of the world, but optimistic about your own prospects.

What about median income vrs. median home prices?

I may be a semi-hinged militant kookball, but you sir are a wannabe limousine liberal. It may not reflected in your income, but prevails in your views.

Funny how some people here get on my case when I get pessimistic, then often go right a head and make a pessimistic post whilst offering no argument on how to achieve a change.


Old topics are irrelevant. Situations change.  Maybe you should review all my " we're doomed " threads, compare them to reality and try and convince me how I'm wrong.
Haha "limousine liberal"...what does that mean exactly?

I am many things.  On occasion you will find me nihilist, materialistic, existential, rational, and yes, pessimistic and cynical.  To peg me as one or the other is to do a disservice to my moody, ever-changing and evolving brain and persona.

And no, buddy, you aren't semi-hinged.  The door is off the frame
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

ATG wrote:

Ken, you make some good observations but offer no way to achieve change, nor what to change to. You seem like the ' cynically optimistic ' type. Meaning one who is cynical about the state of the world, but optimistic about your own prospects.

What about median income vrs. median home prices?

I may be a semi-hinged militant kookball, but you sir are a wannabe limousine liberal. It may not reflected in your income, but prevails in your views.

Funny how some people here get on my case when I get pessimistic, then often go right a head and make a pessimistic post whilst offering no argument on how to achieve a change.


Old topics are irrelevant. Situations change.  Maybe you should review all my " we're doomed " threads, compare them to reality and try and convince me how I'm wrong.
Haha "limousine liberal"...what does that mean exactly?

I am many things.  On occasion you will find me nihilist, materialistic, existential, rational, and yes, pessimistic and cynical.  To peg me as one or the other is to do a disservice to my moody, ever-changing and evolving brain and persona.

And no, buddy, you aren't semi-hinged.  The door is off the frame
]


It means your a hypocrite, just like me.
imortal
Member
+240|7084|Austin, TX

IRONCHEF wrote:

Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
Protecus
Prophet of Certain Certainties
+28|6941

imortal wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
They hate the President that cut their pay checks, but loves the president that cuts their ranks....
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6910|Northern California

imortal wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
Yeah, cuz Bush and Cheney haven't cut ANY pay, benefits, healthcare, or closed ANY bases since they took office and conducted warfare in two nations! lol  Go suck on your Fox noise channel silly goose.  You just blamed Clinton for no uparmored Humvees and exhonerated Rumsfeld.  That could ONLY come from one "news" source.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7155|Salt Lake City

IRONCHEF wrote:

imortal wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
Yeah, cuz Bush and Cheney haven't cut ANY pay, benefits, healthcare, or closed ANY bases since they took office and conducted warfare in two nations! lol  Go suck on your Fox noise channel silly goose.  You just blamed Clinton for no uparmored Humvees and exhonerated Rumsfeld.  That could ONLY come from one "news" source.
LOL...you sounded like Big Gay Al when you said that...you silly goose! 
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6830|'Murka

IRONCHEF wrote:

imortal wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Which is why it's time to put another democrat in office...for responsible-ish financial prowess.  of course we lose our sovereignty with it, but hey, the republican "plan" of fiscal conservitiveness didn't work..as always.
...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
Yeah, cuz Bush and Cheney haven't cut ANY pay, benefits, healthcare, or closed ANY bases since they took office and conducted warfare in two nations! lol  Go suck on your Fox noise channel silly goose.  You just blamed Clinton for no uparmored Humvees and exhonerated Rumsfeld.  That could ONLY come from one "news" source.
Bush raised pay and extended benefits to the reserves. Yes, bases were slated to be closed (but won't actually be closed until 2011 or so).

And the fiscal "discipline" of the Bush administration is completely at odds with the Republican platform. Most conservatives don't consider him truly conservative, and most Republicans don't consider neocons to be true Republicans. Quit lumping those groups together out of convenience.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6824|North Carolina
Bush also cut battle pay and introduced stop loss programs.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command
OP updated.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6704
A weak dollar value is good news for the export market and encourages people to buy nationally produced stuff.

A weakened dollar isn't all doom and gloom.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7040|London, England
You people are morons. The only fucking thing you can talk about is Military budget when it comes to economic policy like it's the only thing that matters and fuck everything else. I guess you can't expect anything else on a video game forum about a war game, but still.
aerodynamic
FOCKING HELL
+241|6172|Roma
The chinese have bought the US debts and now the China has power in the market.
If the China throws the debts in the market we will all be shitting bricks.

Last edited by aerodynamic (2008-09-13 03:35:05)

https://bf3s.com/sigs/8ea27f2d75b353b0a18b096ed75ec5e142da7cc2.png
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7109|Tampa Bay Florida

FEOS wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

imortal wrote:


...Yes, what we need is a democrat who balances the budget by cutting spending in the military down to barely effective levels.  Yes, that is useful.  (After all, why would the military need spare parts for its vehicles?) 

And people wonder why miltary people hated Clinton.
Yeah, cuz Bush and Cheney haven't cut ANY pay, benefits, healthcare, or closed ANY bases since they took office and conducted warfare in two nations! lol  Go suck on your Fox noise channel silly goose.  You just blamed Clinton for no uparmored Humvees and exhonerated Rumsfeld.  That could ONLY come from one "news" source.
Bush raised pay and extended benefits to the reserves. Yes, bases were slated to be closed (but won't actually be closed until 2011 or so).

And the fiscal "discipline" of the Bush administration is completely at odds with the Republican platform. Most conservatives don't consider him truly conservative, and most Republicans don't consider neocons to be true Republicans. Quit lumping those groups together out of convenience.
Then time to make a new party... because the GOP still reeks of neocon propaganda.

and when you do... sign me up.  If the conservatives you're talking about really are so conservative.... they'll probably be better than the Democrats.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6948|Global Command

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

You people are morons. The only fucking thing you can talk about is Military budget when it comes to economic policy like it's the only thing that matters and fuck everything else. I guess you can't expect anything else on a video game forum about a war game, but still.
What the hell are you talking about?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7180

ATG wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

You people are morons. The only fucking thing you can talk about is Military budget when it comes to economic policy like it's the only thing that matters and fuck everything else. I guess you can't expect anything else on a video game forum about a war game, but still.
What the hell are you talking about?
lol

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