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2008-04-24 17:44:52
Major.League.Infidel
Make Love and War
+303|6902|Communist Republic of CA, USA
BBC
CNN
Associated Press

https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44598000/jpg/_44598902_bbc466x220compare.jpg

The Associated Press wrote:

WASHINGTON - A top member of the House intelligence committee said classified information being shared with members of Congress Thursday shows that an alleged Syrian nuclear reactor built with North Korean help and destroyed last year by Israeli jets threatened to spread nuclear weapons technology.

"This is a serious proliferation issue, both for the Middle East and the countries that may be involved in Asia," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich.

The Syrian reactor was similar in design to a North Korean reactor that has in the past produced small amounts of plutonium, a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information. The reactor was not yet complete but was far enough along to demonstrate a resemblance to the North Korean reactor at Yongbyon.
The Syrians said the Israelis bombed an empty warehouse.  Guess not.  I for one am glad.  If you want Nuclear Power, go about it in a way that doesn't happen to conveniently leave you Weapons Grade Plutonium.
2008-04-24 17:46:25
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6953|Global Command
Send Carter back to negotiate.
2008-04-24 17:46:52
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6385|Washington DC
Agreed on the last point you made. Or at least make sure the region you're in isn't susceptible to corruption, fanatical leaders, and links to terrorist groups.
2008-04-24 18:57:13
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6603
Is it that hard for nations seeking nuclear power to just say "hey, here we are, we have nuclear power, take a look". Obviously, if a nation isn't open to showing what they have, as far as nuclear plants (including America) then that government shouldn't be trusted and the world should try to find out. It goes for ANY country.

I am not saying, have all the governments tour plants and have a picture days. I am talking about independent bodies being able to confirm what is going on at a specific or suspect site. If you can't simply allow verification then you have something to hide. It is pretty clear that many middle east countries are making an effort for nuclear weapons or at least trying to learn about how to do it, just quit using excuses or try to hide it and then call everyone else a liar when this kind of proof slaps you in the face.

Anyhow, all these governments, including our own, act like a bunch of playground children. "you started it first", "stop staring at me", "im going to tell on you".  Geez....people need to grow up and take responsibility for your actions and be honest about it. This cold war shit is getting old and tiresome. I guess the world has always been at war and I see nothing changing anytime soon.
2008-04-25 00:52:08
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979
I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-25 00:52:54)

2008-04-25 01:03:51
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7265|Cologne, Germany

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
with the kind of rhetoric used towards Iran on this mattter, I wonder how far the US and their israeli friends are willing to go to avoid the spreading of nuclear technology in the middle east.
2008-04-25 01:36:38
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

B.Schuss wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
with the kind of rhetoric used towards Iran on this mattter, I wonder how far the US and their israeli friends are willing to go to avoid the spreading of nuclear technology in the middle east.
They'll do whatever it takes, fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated and kill whoever they want to kill. Israel is the number one most ruthless country on the face of the planet today. I think Pakistan however is one step too far beyond their control.

On another note, more than at any other time in history the Arabs in OPEC should be pushing for an oil embargo on the west to force the Israel issue. I wonder why they haven't done so.
2008-04-25 01:39:15
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6577|what

If this was known about for 8 months, why has it only now been revealed to us?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2008-04-25 02:03:21
Ottomania
Troll has returned.
+62|6945|Istanbul-Turkey
Didnt we hear the same lies before the invasion of Iraq??
2008-04-25 02:03:57
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6835|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
with the kind of rhetoric used towards Iran on this mattter, I wonder how far the US and their israeli friends are willing to go to avoid the spreading of nuclear technology in the middle east.
They'll do whatever it takes, fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated and kill whoever they want to kill. Israel is the number one most ruthless country on the face of the planet today. I think Pakistan however is one step too far beyond their control.

On another note, more than at any other time in history the Arabs in OPEC should be pushing for an oil embargo on the west to force the Israel issue. I wonder why they haven't done so.
So are you claiming that the photos showing the nature of the Syrian reactor were fabricated?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-25 02:05:05
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

FEOS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

with the kind of rhetoric used towards Iran on this mattter, I wonder how far the US and their israeli friends are willing to go to avoid the spreading of nuclear technology in the middle east.
They'll do whatever it takes, fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated and kill whoever they want to kill. Israel is the number one most ruthless country on the face of the planet today. I think Pakistan however is one step too far beyond their control.

On another note, more than at any other time in history the Arabs in OPEC should be pushing for an oil embargo on the west to force the Israel issue. I wonder why they haven't done so.
So are you claiming that the photos showing the nature of the Syrian reactor were fabricated?
No I'm not. I think it probable given that Syria didn't cry foul and tidied away the mess post haste that they did in fact have some kind of clandestine program going on there. You can't tell anything much from satellite imagery though. I'm going on logic not powerpoint presentations. I trust neither Israel or the US when it comes to 'photos' or 'information'.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-25 02:07:13)

2008-04-25 02:05:12
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6835|'Murka

TheAussieReaper wrote:

If this was known about for 8 months, why has it only now been revealed to us?
Probably the declassification process and ensuring the source is adequately protected, since those were obviously taken by a person inside the reactor building while it was under construction.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-25 02:06:20
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6835|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


They'll do whatever it takes, fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated and kill whoever they want to kill. Israel is the number one most ruthless country on the face of the planet today. I think Pakistan however is one step too far beyond their control.

On another note, more than at any other time in history the Arabs in OPEC should be pushing for an oil embargo on the west to force the Israel issue. I wonder why they haven't done so.
So are you claiming that the photos showing the nature of the Syrian reactor were fabricated?
No I'm not. I think it probable given that Syria didn't cry foul and tidied away the mess post haste that they did in fact have some kind of clandestine program going on there.
Then why "fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated"?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-25 02:08:06
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

FEOS wrote:

Then why "fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated"?
That was a general phrase describing how underhand they are prepared to be to attain their particular political goals.
2008-04-25 02:25:15
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6603

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Then why "fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated"?
That was a general phrase describing how underhand they are prepared to be to attain their particular political goals.
I guess Syria has never been underhanded...just those pesky jews...
2008-04-25 02:31:43
Dec45
Member
+12|7065

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
If only the generic brand 'Arab world', (whatever that dull and homogenized term, that only an armchair general white dude living in the western world would use), would just come to the 'Debate and Serious Talk' section of Bf2s.com. They'd have all of their questions answered. Have you ever called up the 'Arab world', and asked them if they'd hire you as their economist/military advisor?
2008-04-25 02:31:49
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6966|Outer Space

FEOS wrote:

Probably the declassification process and ensuring the source is adequately protected, since those were obviously taken by a person inside the reactor building while it was under construction.
Yeah, the Israelis weren't too thrilled about US going public according to some of their news outlets. I take it the spy that took them is pretty much useless after this, since the Syrians definitely know there was someone on the inside now.
2008-04-25 02:35:23
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Then why "fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated"?
That was a general phrase describing how underhand they are prepared to be to attain their particular political goals.
I guess Syria has never been underhanded...just those pesky jews...
Why must you infer from a statement made about Israel alone that the same does not apply to anyone else with a political goal? You take words out of my mouth that aren't there.
2008-04-25 02:37:00
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

Dec45 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
If only the generic brand 'Arab world', (whatever that dull and homogenized term, that only an armchair general white dude living in the western world would use), would just come to the 'Debate and Serious Talk' section of Bf2s.com. They'd have all of their questions answered. Have you ever called up the 'Arab world', and asked them if they'd hire you as their economist/military advisor?
Funnily enough I'm not an economist or a soldier. I'm an engineer. This is a forum on which people express opinions. If you don't like it then this place is not for you and therefore you should STFU. If you want to make a comment pertaining to any of the issues being discussed here then feel free.
2008-04-25 02:44:25
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6603

CameronPoe wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

That was a general phrase describing how underhand they are prepared to be to attain their particular political goals.
I guess Syria has never been underhanded...just those pesky jews...
Why must you infer from a statement made about Israel alone that the same does not apply to anyone else with a political goal? You take words out of my mouth that aren't there.
Its your history of reactions and statements here that tell me how you look at the world. Israel can do no right in your eyes and anyone against Israel is basically excused for their actions. Honestly, I rarely see anything different from you. At least Serge, who I often don't agree with, can see the bigger picture and isn't so focused on big, bad America or the evil empire of Israel.

Now you treat what happened in Syria as everyone else's fault. Syria is pretty clearly messing around, using UNDERHANDED tactics to produce weapons that most of the world does not want a country like Syria to have. Instead of laying blame where it should be in this case...Syria...you lay blame on Israel for its actions and almost claim that what happened was probably made up.

If you are going to come in here and lay blame at Israel for the Palestinian issue, lay blame on America for the Iraqi situation, then lay blame on Syria for the actions it is taking. Lay blame where it should be, not where it fits your agenda of who you like or dislike. The Syrian government is very underhanded, please don't play dumb and believe anything else....you are smarter than that.

Last edited by DeathBecomesYu (2008-04-25 02:46:12)

2008-04-25 02:44:53
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7265|Cologne, Germany

CameronPoe wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
with the kind of rhetoric used towards Iran on this mattter, I wonder how far the US and their israeli friends are willing to go to avoid the spreading of nuclear technology in the middle east.
They'll do whatever it takes, fabricate whatever needs to be fabricated and kill whoever they want to kill. Israel is the number one most ruthless country on the face of the planet today. I think Pakistan however is one step too far beyond their control.

On another note, more than at any other time in history the Arabs in OPEC should be pushing for an oil embargo on the west to force the Israel issue. I wonder why they haven't done so.
Because they sell most of that oil to western nations, and couldn't keep their economies going without us pumping our currencies into the middle east.

That's why it is so vital for the west to develop alternative energy ressources as quickly as possible. At the moment, our economy - our way of life really -  relies heavily on oil.
The earlier we can show the towelheads ( excuse the profanity ) the finger and power ourselves with something else than oil, the earlier we can leave the middle east for good and let them handle their affairs themselves.
Unfortunately, due to the apparent short-sightedness in the industry, that's not going to happen any time soon.
I don't think I'll live to see the day, actually.
2008-04-25 02:49:53
Dec45
Member
+12|7065

CameronPoe wrote:

Dec45 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think the Arab world will ultimately have to rely on Pakistan to level the playing field with Israel. When an Islamic revolution a la Iran happens in Pakistan the technology will be exported to the entire Arab and Muslim world. The Arab world should concentrate solely on imposing economic hardships on Israel and on guerilla warfare until such time.
If only the generic brand 'Arab world', (whatever that dull and homogenized term, that only an armchair general white dude living in the western world would use), would just come to the 'Debate and Serious Talk' section of Bf2s.com. They'd have all of their questions answered. Have you ever called up the 'Arab world', and asked them if they'd hire you as their economist/military advisor?
Funnily enough I'm not an economist or a soldier. I'm an engineer. This is a forum on which people express opinions. If you don't like it then this place is not for you and therefore you should STFU. If you want to make a comment pertaining to any of the issues being discussed here then feel free.
Hey there authoritarian internet guy, with the big virtual whip in your hand... I never said I didn't like it. I realize that this is a forum in which people express opinions, which is specifically why I stated my opinion, that I think your opinion sucks ass. If you don't like it, you can shut the fuck up. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by making a valid point, albeit a highly witty one.

But you make an interesting point in asking me to talk about the issues being discussed here, because I wasn't aware that Syria's reactors had anything to do with your wet dream fantasies about how to go about destroying Israel. And to extrapolate that, it means that you are in fact strategizing economics and military strategy. So, as long as that's true, I believe I'm well within my rights to call you out on your lame attempt thereof.
2008-04-25 03:01:22
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

Dec45 wrote:

Hey there authoritarian internet guy, with the big virtual whip in your hand... I never said I didn't like it. I realize that this is a forum in which people express opinions, which is specifically why I stated my opinion, that I think your opinion sucks ass. If you don't like it, you can shut the fuck up. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by making a valid point, albeit a highly witty one.

But you make an interesting point in asking me to talk about the issues being discussed here, because I wasn't aware that Syria's reactors had anything to do with your wet dream fantasies about how to go about destroying Israel. And to extrapolate that, it means that you are in fact strategizing economics and military strategy. So, as long as that's true, I believe I'm well within my rights to call you out on your lame attempt thereof.
You didn't make a valid point. In fact you didn't really address anything. You just came into the thread and flamed because you didn't like my opinion. Arabs hate Israel. FACT. I know that from the rather obvious fact I can not travel to pretty much any Arab nation bar Jordan and Egypt because I have an Israeli stamp on my passport. Arab popular opinion despises Israel. The Arab goal is to get rid of Israel. I just expounded on potential paths to said goal. If you think my assessment of the situation is wrong then please explain.
2008-04-25 03:08:38
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I guess Syria has never been underhanded...just those pesky jews...
Why must you infer from a statement made about Israel alone that the same does not apply to anyone else with a political goal? You take words out of my mouth that aren't there.
Its your history of reactions and statements here that tell me how you look at the world. Israel can do no right in your eyes and anyone against Israel is basically excused for their actions. Honestly, I rarely see anything different from you. At least Serge, who I often don't agree with, can see the bigger picture and isn't so focused on big, bad America or the evil empire of Israel.

Now you treat what happened in Syria as everyone else's fault. Syria is pretty clearly messing around, using UNDERHANDED tactics to produce weapons that most of the world does not want a country like Syria to have. Instead of laying blame where it should be in this case...Syria...you lay blame on Israel for its actions and almost claim that what happened was probably made up.

If you are going to come in here and lay blame at Israel for the Palestinian issue, lay blame on America for the Iraqi situation, then lay blame on Syria for the actions it is taking. Lay blame where it should be, not where it fits your agenda of who you like or dislike. The Syrian government is very underhanded, please don't play dumb and believe anything else....you are smarter than that.
I am biased against Israel. I believe the creation of the state of Israel at the expense of the inhabitants of Palestine was unjust. It's as simple as that. Syria are still technically at war with Israel. No peace agreement was signed. As such, they should be attempting to better themselves imilitarily to defend themselves from Israeli attacks and to attempt to take back territory of theirs that Israel annexed. Every protagonist in a war will do WHATEVER it takes to beat the opponent, by means both underhand and honest. I expect Syria to be as underhand as Israel if they want to get ahead. I don't blame them for wanting nuclear weapons when their neighbour, with whom they are at war, has by some estimates 100 nuclear warheads. I wouldn't exactly be surprised at their attempts or feel what they are doing is morally reproachable in the context of Israel's nuclear arsenal (which you seem to overlook, correct me if I'm wrong).

Israel IS TO BLAME for the Palestinian issue btw. There is no other culprit (perhaps maybe the UN).

I guess it's one rule for Israel and another rule for everyone else.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-25 03:12:14)

2008-04-25 03:27:18
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6835|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

Israel IS TO BLAME for the Palestinian issue btw. There is no other culprit (perhaps maybe the UN).

I guess it's one rule for Israel and another rule for everyone else.
Or perhaps the Palestinians themselves?

It certainly sounds like you've got one rule for Israel and another rule for everyone else, Cam.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

 

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