BF2S Forums An entire team of snipers...

So let me get this straight...
Medic:
Running around killing people = bad
medic-whoring (throwing bags/reviving) = bad
Support:
Running around killing people = bad
support-whoring (throwing bags) = bad
Spec-Ops:
Not blowing the enemy assests = bad
Wasting time not killing people because I went to blow the enemy assests = bad
Anti-tank:
Not being able to properly utilize the AT weap on IO map = bad
Using the AT weap to kill 2 or 3 guys at once = bad
Assault:
Noob-toobing = bad
Using the rifle instead of shooting grenades for a distance = bad
Engineer:
(Dropping AT mines on an IO only map = funny)
Running around killing people at close range with a shotgun = bad
Not killing enough people because I'm too busy repairing the assets = bad
Sniper:
Staying back and spotting baddies for your teammates who are capping a flag = bad
Killing baddies trying to sneak up on your teammates = bad
One-shot, one-kill = bad
Protecting myself with the claymores = bad

General:
Throwing a lot of grenades = bad
Getting the armor/jet/heli (because I'm smart enough to spawn back at the un-cap and you're not) everytime it spawns = bad
Being commander every round (because no one else wants to) = bad

...looks like there are no good kits on BF2.  Maybe you all should quit playing and let me have it all to myself.

ah, derailed to the max. another Sniper v the world thread.

Carry on.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

A medic can maul down 10 snipers if he is skilled.

In a single encounter? Are you on crack?

Throughout the game? Well duh. But then any decent sniper might have killed 10 or more medics in the same timeframe.

If you were talking about the first case there are plenty of people who play sniper that could take down a lone medic in a one-on-one confrontation; in all seriousness, excluding fairly short-range situations (maybe 70m and less) the sniper always has the advantage. The closer the range the more it favours the medic, obviously.

Most medics (we are making gross generalisations in this thread, aren't we? so we're not focussing on good/superior players here) couldn't take out any decent snipers at ranges in excess of that, period, much less if they're shooting at each other. Beyond 100m and you can practically forget it; few infantry players other than snipers get kills, reliably and repeatably, at that kind of range.

Ssandstorm wrote:

I have 7026 claymore kills.

My percentage is higher LOL

And I use them better (better for the team goal) which is why my flag points are about double yours I think.

tahadar wrote:

these discussions dont go anywhere.

That's true. But the way I see it, if you can reach the one guy...

tahadar wrote:

...both sides (at least in the snipers suck Vs snipers rock) have valid points...

As a rule I don't think that's quite true. The 'snipers suck' camp are generally unencumbered by logic or reason... as anyone but they can see.

Let's face it, in the game as it currently exists all kits have a role, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either stupid or ignorant.

As has been mentioned before in a couple of threads, sniper and assault share a similar difficulty: they are the only two classes with no basic function other than to kill the enemy. So you can't directly compare either to engineers maintaining armour, medics reviving and healing etc. etc.

First off, Assault is much better than sniper. While the sniper sits around with his thumb up his ass, taking potshots at random people, with the occasional claymore flag defend. First off, snipers aren't even that good at defense. Any enemy with a brain would use cover, hide behind walls, and use smoke grenades, which is going to make it a lot harder to kill them with the rifle. That leaves the claymores. Our squad attacking the flag is going to have a medic in it, so if someone is killed by a claymore, they'll just be revived. Once they're at the flag, the sniper is useless against the other kits. Even AT, with the weak SMG's, is more than a match for the sniper, who only has a pistol available at short range. Also, that's assuming that armor isn't involved. The only time a sniper is remotely useful is on IO, since it doesn't matter how good you are, any vehicle pilot/gunner with a brain will kill you in half a second.

I still think there should be a no explosives mode.

greenhaven wrote:

First off, Assault is much better than sniper. While the sniper sits around with his thumb up his ass, taking potshots at random people, with the occasional claymore flag defend.

Well I don't think I've read such a well-balanced, reasoned assessment of the relative charactertics of the two kits in a long while

Want to try to stack the argument any more in your favour, I'm not sure you laid it on quite thickly enough.

Let me elucidate:
Any enemy with a brain would use cover, hide behind walls, and use smoke grenades, which is going to make it a lot harder to kill them with the rifle.
What's the sniper doing in your fantasy, standing in the middle of the street?

And since it's apparently escaped your notice in 160 hours of play it's smoke grenade, singular.

Want to reverse this scenario? Sniper sees assault player capping flag, shoots assault player once, taking him down to 40% or only two bars, depending on rifle. If he's at the right range he might lob a 'nade and if there's any damage the assault guy is nearly certain to be dead. If he's really close he switches to the pistol and will often win with one or two quick shots (not always of course). But in practice you'll usually get the assault player trying to shoot back, and often you can hit him with the rifle a second time before he's hit you enough to kill.*

And this is assuming the sniper didn't get a clean headshot in the first place, from cover, 90m away. Or kill the assault player with a carefully-placed claymore.

Our squad attacking the flag...
So you're assuming a squad attacking the flag defended by a lone player. What's the average assault guy going to be able to do against an entire squad by himself, kill one and maybe wound two or three of the remainder? 99 times out of 100 there's no way he'll prevail.

...is going to have a medic in it, so if someone is killed by a claymore, they'll just be revived.
Or the clay might kill all of them; it's happened... wanna see screenshots? Or it might kill the point man and the medic in the #2 spot and the other players are too stupid to switch kits to revive the dead, I've seen this happen too.

And assuming what you said is what occurs, the reviving session might allow the sniper, if he has a bit of skill and brains and backed away from a numerically-superior attacking force, to get two grenade kills instead of just one. Dozens of guys here have killed medics and the guy they're reviviing with a well-judged grenade.

Once they're at the flag, the sniper is useless against the other kits.
It's easy to pick a situation where any kit is potentially at a disadvantage.

Also, that's assuming that armor isn't involved.
Explain to us all what an assault player would do against a tank. Or a medic. Or a support guy.

*Bear in mind my KDR with the rifle is currently running at 4+, with 0.34 flag points/min, playing as a combat sniper; so I do know what I'm talking about here.

R0lyP0ly wrote:

greenhaven wrote:

First off, Assault is much better than sniper. While the sniper sits around with his thumb up his ass, taking potshots at random people, with the occasional claymore flag defend. First off, snipers aren't even that good at defense. Any enemy with a brain would use cover, hide behind walls, and use smoke grenades, which is going to make it a lot harder to kill them with the rifle. That leaves the claymores. Our squad attacking the flag is going to have a medic in it, so if someone is killed by a claymore, they'll just be revived. Once they're at the flag, the sniper is useless against the other kits. Even AT, with the weak SMG's, is more than a match for the sniper, who only has a pistol available at short range. Also, that's assuming that armor isn't involved. The only time a sniper is remotely useful is on IO, since it doesn't matter how good you are, any vehicle pilot/gunner with a brain will kill you in half a second.

Did you not read anything before you posted?

1) My thumb is at a minimum of 3 feet away from my rectum at all times. Even whilst wiping. (Ewww)
2)Any enemy with a brain would realize that red tags show through smoke; any sniper with a brain (and their are plenty) would know where to shoot. Any human being would realize that there isn't a CP that has someplace where you can hide from everybody. 'cept haxing, but, regardless of kit, thats just ghey.
3)I kill full health support, w/in 10m, with a 92fs. Aim for the head, get the jump, and never, ever, spray n pray.
4)Gunners don't distinguish between kits. Gunners also are like goldfish and cats -- they are attracted to movement. ie. they aren't gonna see my lying motionless in the bushes a few meters out
5)Snipers have the advantage when it comes to capping flags -- 2 clays mean you can sequester (cool word, huh) yourself  in a corner, and the enemies play rock paper scissors to see who gets fragged by it.
6) Your point about squads always having medics is valid, except for the fact that squads rarely stick together, and the medic is more likely to run at a tank to get the revive rather than stay back and withhold a ticket from the other team. Medics tend to cause more damage that good with their uncanny obsession with +2.
7) Read before making yourself look stupid.

EDIT: Almost fell victim to a collateral of #7: Proofread before posting.

1. Unless you've cut your thumbs off, or someone else wipes your ass for you, I doubt that's true. And if you cut your thumbs off, holding the TP would be difficult.
2. That's a tall order, seeing as how most snipers idea of their kit involves pressing 5 and double clicking. However, even if you do kill one person, there's still five others. Let's say one medic falls back to revive him. Even then, you still have four, or more if there's multiple squads or just more people. The four people rush in to cap the flag. Also, you don't have to have everyone hidden from your view. Just one person to change the flag.
3. So you killed one support guy. Now, Random_Support's squadmates know where you are, and are more than obliged to inject a stream of hot lead into your skull.
4. Gunners don't have to distinguish between kits. They just have to distinguish between teams. They are also remarkably attracted to enemy troops, and your dark ghille suit standing out against the light ground seems to register in the gunners mind as 'shoot here for two points.' Even if the helo gunner misses you, which isn't likely, any decent armor driver will be happy to pick up the two points.
5. So you've sequestered yourself in a corner. As you pointed out, red tags don't just stand out through smoke. I'm sure you've played enough BF2 to know that person in a corner = easy grenade kills. Also, depending on the angle from which the squad has attacked, they can just pull out their guns and shoot you from outside claymore range.
6. We're already assuming ideal circumstances, which is how our sniper hit a good portion of our squad with headshots through smoke, and finished the rest off with pistols, let's just say they do stick together. I don't know about you, but to a medic, those two people that your claymores killed, and the support you killed with a pistol, those look pretty damn tempting. Not to mention the sniper that has used both clays, and is out of sniper rifle range, armed with a pistol. That looks pretty tempting too for the squad, now fully revived.

greenhaven wrote:

1. Unless you've cut your thumbs off, or someone else wipes your ass for you, I doubt that's true. And if you cut your thumbs off, holding the TP would be difficult.
2. That's a tall order, seeing as how most snipers idea of their kit involves pressing 5 and double clicking. However, even if you do kill one person, there's still five others. Let's say one medic falls back to revive him. Even then, you still have four, or more if there's multiple squads or just more people. The four people rush in to cap the flag. Also, you don't have to have everyone hidden from your view. Just one person to change the flag.
3. So you killed one support guy. Now, Random_Support's squadmates know where you are, and are more than obliged to inject a stream of hot lead into your skull.
4. Gunners don't have to distinguish between kits. They just have to distinguish between teams. They are also remarkably attracted to enemy troops, and your dark ghille suit standing out against the light ground seems to register in the gunners mind as 'shoot here for two points.' Even if the helo gunner misses you, which isn't likely, any decent armor driver will be happy to pick up the two points.
5. So you've sequestered yourself in a corner. As you pointed out, red tags don't just stand out through smoke. I'm sure you've played enough BF2 to know that person in a corner = easy grenade kills. Also, depending on the angle from which the squad has attacked, they can just pull out their guns and shoot you from outside claymore range.
6. We're already assuming ideal circumstances, which is how our sniper hit a good portion of our squad with headshots through smoke, and finished the rest off with pistols, let's just say they do stick together. I don't know about you, but to a medic, those two people that your claymores killed, and the support you killed with a pistol, those look pretty damn tempting. Not to mention the sniper that has used both clays, and is out of sniper rifle range, armed with a pistol. That looks pretty tempting too for the squad, now fully revived.

Wtf? It isn't the job of the sniper to eliminate the entire fucking enemy team. And if he did wipe out your entire squad before getting killed, he can still sit there with a grin on his face and a chubby below. Personally I take it as a compliment if 6 guys are pissed and chasing me - and that is 6 guys leaving the rest of my team alone.

A decent sniper can at least knock a couple of members out of an assaulting squad before they close distance, lay claymores and retreat - causing healthy damage to the enemy.

A better sniper can work with the team to cover his own squad advances, pick off entrenched/difficult enemy troops and provide yet another direction of fire to duck away from.

Otherwise - for the love of god realise that having 7 kits in the game is all part of one big army toolkit. If you have a tank in front - flick out the swiss-army blade that has AT or ENGO tattooed on it. Got pwnt doing that? call your medic over. Other than tea-bagging (non-class specific skill) most roles on the field have their uses.

The sniper is there to a) kill people longer range b) provide recon at longer range c) harass the other guys as much as possible <insert claymores here>.

Last edited by Ekfud (2006-12-03 19:27:44)

RANKED SNIPER ONLY

NO capping flags (except initial grey on 'your' side.
Stay on 'your' side.
Sniper kit only.
Breach the above rules and you will be vote kicked by all the snipers. Yes even the admins will vote to kick you despite the ROE.
Give lip to admins...
Give lip to anyone... KICKED FOR DISRUPTING THE SERVER.



SN][PER Group server
67.19.254.202

And yes it has been reported many times, much like K&P servers. So the server probably will stick around but play there at your own risk

Last edited by Stubbee (2006-12-03 19:39:20)

i <3 all the kits.

Ekfud wrote:

greenhaven wrote:

1. Unless you've cut your thumbs off, or someone else wipes your ass for you, I doubt that's true. And if you cut your thumbs off, holding the TP would be difficult.
2. That's a tall order, seeing as how most snipers idea of their kit involves pressing 5 and double clicking. However, even if you do kill one person, there's still five others. Let's say one medic falls back to revive him. Even then, you still have four, or more if there's multiple squads or just more people. The four people rush in to cap the flag. Also, you don't have to have everyone hidden from your view. Just one person to change the flag.
3. So you killed one support guy. Now, Random_Support's squadmates know where you are, and are more than obliged to inject a stream of hot lead into your skull.
4. Gunners don't have to distinguish between kits. They just have to distinguish between teams. They are also remarkably attracted to enemy troops, and your dark ghille suit standing out against the light ground seems to register in the gunners mind as 'shoot here for two points.' Even if the helo gunner misses you, which isn't likely, any decent armor driver will be happy to pick up the two points.
5. So you've sequestered yourself in a corner. As you pointed out, red tags don't just stand out through smoke. I'm sure you've played enough BF2 to know that person in a corner = easy grenade kills. Also, depending on the angle from which the squad has attacked, they can just pull out their guns and shoot you from outside claymore range.
6. We're already assuming ideal circumstances, which is how our sniper hit a good portion of our squad with headshots through smoke, and finished the rest off with pistols, let's just say they do stick together. I don't know about you, but to a medic, those two people that your claymores killed, and the support you killed with a pistol, those look pretty damn tempting. Not to mention the sniper that has used both clays, and is out of sniper rifle range, armed with a pistol. That looks pretty tempting too for the squad, now fully revived.

Wtf? It isn't the job of the sniper to eliminate the entire fucking enemy team. And if he did wipe out your entire squad before getting killed, he can still sit there with a grin on his face and a chubby below. Personally I take it as a compliment if 6 guys are pissed and chasing me - and that is 6 guys leaving the rest of my team alone.

A decent sniper can at least knock a couple of members out of an assaulting squad before they close distance, lay claymores and retreat - causing healthy damage to the enemy.

A better sniper can work with the team to cover his own squad advances, pick off entrenched/difficult enemy troops and provide yet another direction of fire to duck away from.

Otherwise - for the love of god realise that having 7 kits in the game is all part of one big army toolkit. If you have a tank in front - flick out the swiss-army blade that has AT or ENGO tattooed on it. Got pwnt doing that? call your medic over. Other than tea-bagging (non-class specific skill) most roles on the field have their uses.

The sniper is there to a) kill people longer range b) provide recon at longer range c) harass the other guys as much as possible <insert claymores here>.

As long as there's one person left to turn the flag, it doesn't matter how much damage you inflicted with your clays. You lost the flag.

You know the best way to cover an advance? Do it by running with your teammates. A player on the frontlines that is going to be another person for the enemy to shoot at and get shot by is going to be a hell of a lot more valuable than a sniper taking the odd shot now and then. Second, you know what else is good at taking out 'difficult' enemy troops? Grenades. Vehicles. Armor. Helos. Jets. Hell, even a shitload of people charging is pretty damn effective. Also, what's with the damn recon argument? There's a person on your team who is dedicated to it. It's called the 'Commander' position.

Yes, snipers are part of the 'toolkit,' and they do have a specific purpose. It just turns out that their skill, so to speak, isn't as important as the other skills the varying classes have. Most of the time, the server is going to be running a city map, which focuses on close combat, where snipers are least effective. And if the map you are playing is large enough for long range combat, then there's going to be many vehicles and sniping won't be as important. As polarbearz pointed out a long time ago, sniper is a lone wolf kit, and it doesn't fit in well in a team game.

I think he's talking about the actually kit, anyone could have hopped on a TOW.
Snipers can help the team, but not as much as other kits.
Just play what you want to play.

For every decent commander there are 8 complete tools. Spotting shit helps everyone.

Granted, there are maps where a sniper won't suit. Zatar wetlands (which doesn't suit being on foot as ANY class).

Put a sniper on a map like Sharqi, Warlord, Night Flight, Ghost town, Pyjamabed, etc. Vehicles or not - there are dozens of places to get out of the way of vehicles. As long as you haven't unpacked the picnic hamper expecting to stay in the same spot for the entire round, you can do plenty to support the team.