China would be crazy to invade Russia.Commie Killer wrote:
Siberia, unknown the amount of oil and other things up there, also the PLAN has quadrupled in size since 1998.Major.League.Infidel wrote:
China doesn't have the means to expand. There is no way it could mobilize it's army to attack anywhere effectively. Why do you think Taiwan hasn't been invaded yet? Now if you were to attack them, that'd be a different story.
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A commitment to invade Siberia would be quite risky. Emphasis on your unknown. Although there is likely a huge amount of resources up there, locating and securing them, then building a means to get them out of a desolated area would be quite a feat, especially in the middle of a war between such powerful nations. You should read Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon. It has an entirely hypothetical war under those same circumstances. And that one is won by F-117's and F-16's in the air, and Old russian Tanks on the ground. And I'd like to see your proof on the quadrupled thing, as that is quite fast. And even if they are growing so fast, they still have no viable means to transport their forces in an invasion sense to be a threat. Again we revisit Taiwan.Commie Killer wrote:
Siberia, unknown the amount of oil and other things up there, also the PLAN has quadrupled in size since 1998.
If that happened in reality, it would escalate so fast nukes would be used.Major.League.Infidel wrote:
A commitment to invade Siberia would be quite risky. Emphasis on your unknown. Although there is likely a huge amount of resources up there, locating and securing them, then building a means to get them out of a desolated area would be quite a feat, especially in the middle of a war between such powerful nations. You should read Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon. It has an entirely hypothetical war under those same circumstances. And that one is won by F-117's and F-16's in the air, and Old russian Tanks on the ground. And I'd like to see your proof on the quadrupled thing, as that is quite fast. And even if they are growing so fast, they still have no viable means to transport their forces in an invasion sense to be a threat. Again we revisit Taiwan.Commie Killer wrote:
Siberia, unknown the amount of oil and other things up there, also the PLAN has quadrupled in size since 1998.
Ok, i know i sound crazy but...
1. i know our planes are nice shiny and deadly, but anything can be taken down if swarmed. which brings me to
2. The Chinese. They make me nervous. Real nervous. I guess im wondering , even if we have these top of the line killing machines, can we still take a country that has crazy numbers in uniform? I think think some issue over tiwan might develop...
just seems like investing this much per machine can be a real problem in a serious fight. Not these skirmishes in the middle east where it becomes a modified guerrilla warfare.
...someone talk me down
1. i know our planes are nice shiny and deadly, but anything can be taken down if swarmed. which brings me to
2. The Chinese. They make me nervous. Real nervous. I guess im wondering , even if we have these top of the line killing machines, can we still take a country that has crazy numbers in uniform? I think think some issue over tiwan might develop...
just seems like investing this much per machine can be a real problem in a serious fight. Not these skirmishes in the middle east where it becomes a modified guerrilla warfare.
...someone talk me down
In the novel, the NATO/Russia Alliance realizes this threat and deploys a Spec-ops team to destroy the missiles in their silos (Apparantly china has few ICBM silos) before they are used.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
If that happened in reality, it would escalate so fast nukes would be used.
And golgoj4 that is exactly my point. We have tons of Aircraft sitting around now that can still kick some ass. Now in the future we will need to be ahead of everyone else, but right now that's just not needed so bad when we're already so far ahead. And anyone who suggests the Mig-29, I'd like them to look at what happened to Iraq's Air Force in the First Gulf war.
It's not very good though is it? I had heard it had been underperforming in testing and the UK almost pulled out of the project in favour of using a modified Typhoon (that might have been over other issues though).
Personally I think the JSF is a bit of a waste of money, for the development partners at least. It might be a worthwhile investment for foreign buyers.
I reckon a Mig-29 would take an F-35. The Mig-29OVT is an amazing plane, it's prettier too.Stingray24 wrote:
A whole fleet of cheaper A-10s would be great, but they wouldn’t last long up against a Mig-29 or an SU-27.
Personally I think the JSF is a bit of a waste of money, for the development partners at least. It might be a worthwhile investment for foreign buyers.
The Mig-29's only confirmed Air to Air kill was by an Iraqi pilot against his wingman while attempting to attack an F-15 strike package. Unless you count the Cuban Mig-29 that shot down a Cessna piloted by Relief/Rescue workers. SourceBertster7 wrote:
It's not very good though is it? I had heard it had been underperforming in testing and the UK almost pulled out of the project in favour of using a modified Typhoon (that might have been over other issues though).I reckon a Mig-29 would take an F-35. The Mig-29OVT is an amazing plane, it's prettier too.Stingray24 wrote:
A whole fleet of cheaper A-10s would be great, but they wouldn’t last long up against a Mig-29 or an SU-27.
Personally I think the JSF is a bit of a waste of money, for the development partners at least. It might be a worthwhile investment for foreign buyers.
Meh. Looks generic to me. I think the F-35 and F-22 look much prettier.Bertster7 wrote:
The Mig-29OVT is an amazing plane, it's prettier too.
Four words: The United States NavyMajor.League.Infidel wrote:
Why do you think Taiwan hasn't been invaded yet?
Already read it, good book, while I agree right now China has no ability to transport its forces across the strait to Taiwan it will by 2010-2015 I would guess, doesnt matter thought really cause it would all end up at the bottom courtesy of the USN. Ill go get the link for the PLAN, while I do that, you might want to read this:Fancy_Pollux wrote:
If that happened in reality, it would escalate so fast nukes would be used.Major.League.Infidel wrote:
A commitment to invade Siberia would be quite risky. Emphasis on your unknown. Although there is likely a huge amount of resources up there, locating and securing them, then building a means to get them out of a desolated area would be quite a feat, especially in the middle of a war between such powerful nations. You should read Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon. It has an entirely hypothetical war under those same circumstances. And that one is won by F-117's and F-16's in the air, and Old russian Tanks on the ground. And I'd like to see your proof on the quadrupled thing, as that is quite fast. And even if they are growing so fast, they still have no viable means to transport their forces in an invasion sense to be a threat. Again we revisit Taiwan.Commie Killer wrote:
Siberia, unknown the amount of oil and other things up there, also the PLAN has quadrupled in size since 1998.
http://www.geocities.com/testament1212/ … nstUS.html
The F-22 is very pretty. The F-35 looks hideous to me, kind of bloated, like it's eaten too much.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Meh. Looks generic to me. I think the F-35 and F-22 look much prettier.Bertster7 wrote:
The Mig-29OVT is an amazing plane, it's prettier too.
I like the Mig-29. It looks nice, with those huge twin air intakes underneath it.
That's because they've only ever really seen action against the US, while used by less developed nations, which isn't really a fair trial. They've been used successfully in India. The Russians have also used them in Chechnya. The performance in testing between German and US pilots (F-15s and F-18s) was extremely good, the US pilots asked the Germans to stop using some features of the Mig to make it more 'fair' and the F-15 and F-18 are both great.Major.League.Infidel wrote:
The Mig-29's only confirmed Air to Air kill was by an Iraqi pilot against his wingman while attempting to attack an F-15 strike package. Unless you count the Cuban Mig-29 that shot down a Cessna piloted by Relief/Rescue workers. Source
Cant find the link now, it was a story in the Washington Times from 2005.
If you're looking for articles showing China are building carriers then here's one.Commie Killer wrote:
Cant find the link now, it was a story in the Washington Times from 2005.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ina/cv.htm
No, the PLAN has increased its entire fleet by 4 since 1998. Those carriers arent supposed to be ready until like 2015 anyways I think.Bertster7 wrote:
If you're looking for articles showing China are building carriers then here's one.Commie Killer wrote:
Cant find the link now, it was a story in the Washington Times from 2005.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ina/cv.htm
Well, that article does say they have postponed the launch of the first carrier till 2010, which isn't that far off.Commie Killer wrote:
No, the PLAN has increased its entire fleet by 4 since 1998. Those carriers arent supposed to be ready until like 2015 anyways I think.Bertster7 wrote:
If you're looking for articles showing China are building carriers then here's one.Commie Killer wrote:
Cant find the link now, it was a story in the Washington Times from 2005.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ina/cv.htm
I see what you're saying about increasing naval capacity, but without carriers a country cannot project military force overseas effectively. That's yet another reason the US navy is awesome, they have shitloads of amazing carriers.
The JSF isn't ment to go in alone. It is supposed to be escorted by some F-22's.
As for payload on the F-35? I beg to differ, 4 AMRAAM or SideWinders can do alot more then you think. They have more then one weapons bay and each can hold up to 4 different weapons.
And for carrier launching, the F-35C is ment to take off from carrier since the wings are bigger and the air frame has been beefed up.
As for payload on the F-35? I beg to differ, 4 AMRAAM or SideWinders can do alot more then you think. They have more then one weapons bay and each can hold up to 4 different weapons.
And for carrier launching, the F-35C is ment to take off from carrier since the wings are bigger and the air frame has been beefed up.
That's not true. The JSF is for naval deployment and the F-22 is for USAF deployment. It would be a replacement for the Harrier and whatever else they have on carriers, F-15s I think.*=SAS=*DaRkAcE wrote:
The JSF isn't ment to go in alone. It is supposed to be escorted by some F-22's.
The Navy considered a modified F-22, but decided on the JSF instead.
F18s and F/A 18s. Though the E and F models will still be used.Bertster7 wrote:
That's not true. The JSF is for naval deployment and the F-22 is for USAF deployment. It would be a replacement for the Harrier and whatever else they have on carriers, F-15s I think.*=SAS=*DaRkAcE wrote:
The JSF isn't ment to go in alone. It is supposed to be escorted by some F-22's.
The Navy considered a modified F-22, but decided on the JSF instead.
Last edited by Commie Killer (2006-12-15 16:56:01)
To get to Taiwan they would have air cover from the mainland and they would just have to hall ass across the strait and hope to get there in one peace, though I doubt that even if they get across they could successfully gain control of the island.Bertster7 wrote:
Well, that article does say they have postponed the launch of the first carrier till 2010, which isn't that far off.Commie Killer wrote:
No, the PLAN has increased its entire fleet by 4 since 1998. Those carriers arent supposed to be ready until like 2015 anyways I think.Bertster7 wrote:
If you're looking for articles showing China are building carriers then here's one.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ina/cv.htm
I see what you're saying about increasing naval capacity, but without carriers a country cannot project military force overseas effectively. That's yet another reason the US navy is awesome, they have shitloads of amazing carriers.
Thanks man. I'll edit it into the orginal post.>LOD<Dougalachi wrote:
Fancy, here is teh other BBC story on it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6184859.stm
On the topic of Aviation check out this vid:
~ Do you not know that in the service … one must always choose the lesser of two weevils?
Man those videos make me wanna go to the shops and buy model ones since thats the closest I can get without joining the airforce.
no kidding..world leaders should just learn to get along.. it'd be a much friendlier place...Warlord wrote:
It's no wonder the US deficit is where it is too ....
» American Tax Dollars Hard @ work ...
~ W
"my plane can blow up your plane"
Thank goodness we're getting it, I no longer trust our F-111's, despite the fact that they are our frontline fighters.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
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