A lot of Christians are deluding themselves, if you're not a member of the "One, true and holy Catholic apostolic Church" you're all going to hell anyways.. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha haha ha.
LividBovine wrote:
DBBrinson1 does not represent the views of most Christians. At least not the ones I know.
It seems that BBrinson1 is trying to agree and avoid confussion, but he is only making it.Pubic wrote:
ATG wrote:
Okay.
Do you believe that if you had never been exposed to Jesus, would that mean you automatically go to hell.
Does the goat herder in Sri Lanka who is Hindu have to suffer eternal damnation just because he has a different god?So, someone who hasn't had a chance to accept god/jesus is going to hell, but someone who perhaps has and choses another god (better watch the first two commandments) is...what...saved????? Maybe I'm missing something here...DBBrinson1 wrote:
Yes.
No. Many rooms in the house of god.
If you believe that the Bible is God's word to us, either via man, or actually the words God spoke, for that matter, if you read the Bible, you would know that the Bible says that even creation itself shows that there is a creator.
Overall DBBrinson1 seems that he is either a Bible-thumping far to one side Christian, or he is yet another person who says they are a Christian but really is not, and just saying anything he can thing of.
Yeah, I agree there. He's just more the extremist kind of Christian, and probably attends regular Harry Potter book burnings.LividBovine wrote:
DBBrinson1 does not represent the views of most Christians. At least not the ones I know.
Good post though Stingray, I enjoyed reading your story. Let's hope we can keep this whole discussion vaguely productive, without the usual ZOMG! Religion destroys teh worlds!!1111eleven.
i fucked my brother's wife.
I believe that you are correct in this point. Those people who are very strict when it comes to Christianity makes it worse for everyone else.JahManRed wrote:
I think Fundamentalist Christians have discouraged allot of people from turning to Christianity by creating such a stigma about it all.
Also, you point about Christians think it is their "god" given right to convert people. That is a commandment given to them in the Bible. That does not mean that they should shove it onto people when ever they feel like it. If they were to acutally do what the Bible says, they would actually show people the love that God shows in the Bible, and that will lead to the person converting to Christianity. (If there is any Christian who wants to debate this fact with me, PM me.)
I hope he finds out and hurts you.hurricane2oo5 wrote:
i fucked my brother's wife.
Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:
I hope he finds out and rapes you.hurricane2oo5 wrote:
i fucked my brother's wife.
i was only jokin lol (she looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp)ghettoperson wrote:
Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:
I hope he finds out and rapes you.hurricane2oo5 wrote:
i fucked my brother's wife.
Last edited by hurricane2oo5 (2006-12-18 04:47:14)
I think I smell "intelligent design".dubbs wrote:
if you read the Bible, you would know that the Bible says that even creation itself shows that there is a creator.
Why do they call it that, when it obviously ISN'T!
Nice OP Stingray. To be honest though, I'm not quite sure what you expect people to post under it (hence some irrelevant/ stupid replies). You seem a nice guy, although that might not mean much coming from me, given that my people are the only ones in the world that have the habit of cursing their own god!
Anyway, here's my take on religion (yes it's a bit arrogant quoting myself, but I really like what I said! ...must've been drunk that day)
Anyway, here's my take on religion (yes it's a bit arrogant quoting myself, but I really like what I said! ...must've been drunk that day)
I wrote:
I find it offensive that there has to be a punishing god in order for me not to misbehave.
Last edited by oug (2006-12-18 05:32:51)
ƒ³
I know.Spark wrote:
UO pwns CoD2.Spearhead wrote:
Stingray likes United Offensive more than CoD2, that's all I need to know
But back on topic:
ATG, I have asked those questions before - the responses were not overwhelming with cerebral brilliance (though I don't know what else to expect from jamdude). Therefore, I have low confidence in well-thought out answers to your questions.
I just find it very strange that a supposedly benevolent God would cast about 4 billion people (this is assuming that the Semitic religions believe in the same God) into eternal damnation because they don't believe. I would've thought that God would've been more forgiving than that...
Basically I saw this thread going unanswered, and I couldn't have that.
I really need to get into the posture of explaing instead of offering a short answer. I was recalling the answers I was told to the same questions I had asked a priest. I don't just randomly post stuff.dubbs wrote:
It seems that BBrinson1 is trying to agree and avoid confussion, but he is only making it.
If you believe that the Bible is God's word to us, either via man, or actually the words God spoke, for that matter, if you read the Bible, you would know that the Bible says that even creation itself shows that there is a creator.
Overall DBBrinson1 seems that he is either a Bible-thumping far to one side Christian, or he is yet another person who says they are a Christian but really is not, and just saying anything he can thing of.
I am not a bible thumping, regular attending church catholic. I go every now and then.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
You can't condemn a child, and unborn child, to the crimes of his or her father, under no circumstances. There can't be anything more innocent than a baby, not to mention one that is still slowly and carefully growing inside his/her mother's womb.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
The baby was the guilty sperm of the father.EVieira wrote:
Its not an infection, its a baby. A completely innocent life that had nothing to do with what came to be his or her making, and is just asking to be able to live.Reciprocity wrote:
Should a woman, impregnated by rape, be forced to carry the infection growing inside her to term?
I am pro-choice though, I'm usually pro-choice on just about everything, I just hope people make the right choices more than taking the easy way out.
That his/her mother must choose to let it live or not is a terrible choice, but I would hope she chose to have the child. If there was one thing I learned from living in different countries is that children are all the same, no matter where you live. They will always like candy, and always love their mother.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
You're mistakenunnamednewbie13 wrote:
For the sake of argument, if there is a god and He passed his word to us, then it has since been distorted beyond all belief by human selfishness, arrogance and bigotry. Take what's important and useful out of religion and put it into practice: be a good person and serve humanity.
The reliabilty of the bible holds up through time more then you would ever believe. If you did research on this by typing bible manuscrpits or biblical manuscrpits you would know this but here we go.
Because the Bible is a book, it was initially made up of manuscripts. Consequently a primary means for ascertaining its credibility today are the number of copies from those manuscripts which are currently in one's possession. The more copies we have the better we can compare between them and thus know if the document we now read corresponds with the original.
source: http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/bibmanu.htm
Author Date Written Earliest Copy Time Span Copies (extent)
Secular Manuscripts:
Herodotus (History) 480 - 425 BC 900 AD 1,300 years 8
Thucydides (History) 460 - 400 BC 900 AD 1,300 years ?
Aristotle (Philosopher)384 - 322 BC 1,100 AD 1,400 years 5
Caesar (History) 100 - 44 BC 900 AD 1,000 years 10
believe these guys wrtings right? Man look how much of their original work is left?
how bout the bible
(Total New Testament manuscripts = 5,300 Greek MSS, 10,000 Latin Vulgates, 9,300 others = 24,000 copies)
(full table in link)
More info involving manuscripts (quick read)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Manuscript.html
Manuscript Evidence for the New Testament^
There are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament.
These manuscript copies are very ancient and they are available for inspection now.
There are also some 86,000 quotations from the early church fathers and several thousand Lectionaries (church-service books containing Scripture quotations used in the early centuries of Christianity).
Bottom line: the New Testament has an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting its reliability.
_______________
I hate it when people talk distortion of the bible when they have no clue that they are utterly wrong.
THis is some info if you want more find it urselves.
Last edited by Colfax (2006-12-18 10:23:02)
No Stingray is the average christian. Your post is very ignorant and I see you are stereotyping the religion because the asshole Christians like Pat Robertson get more media attention than the average onesReciprocity wrote:
I'm affraid, stingray, you are not the average Christian. Dipshits like DBBrinson are. This loudmouthed, holier than thou, fascist, yet entirely ignorant attitude is what comes with most christians. I try to ignore them as most turn out to be like Mark Foley and Ted Haggard.
Christianity if founded on Grace, Faith, and Mercy. It is very unfortunate that many christians have taken it upon themselves to decide that gods message is be good or go to hell, instead of love they neighbor, and accept that we are all flawed, and only through Jesus can you enter heaven. The new testament does not say "All Sinners go to hell" It says "We are all Sinners" and it's through the grace of Jesus that we may enter heaven anyway.CommieChipmunk wrote:
heres what i was trying to get at earlier, I think that any religion that uses scare tactics to gain members (hell) is rather ridiculous..
I love how I merely posted my views on abortion and was immediately verbally assaulted by the enlighten ones who don't share my opinion. I also find humor in that I have been called a loudmouth, and a fascist. I was also lumped into categories with the likes Pat Robertson & Ted Haggard. I should have expected that from the likes of trolls who post things like "I didn't bother to read any of your manifesto...."doctastrangelove1964 wrote:
No Stingray is the average christian. Your post is very ignorant and I see you are stereotyping the religion because the asshole Christians like Pat Robertson get more media attention than the average onesReciprocity wrote:
I'm affraid, stingray, you are not the average Christian. Dipshits like DBBrinson are. This loudmouthed, holier than thou, fascist, yet entirely ignorant attitude is what comes with most christians. I try to ignore them as most turn out to be like Mark Foley and Ted Haggard.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Whew! Three pages to respond to . . . here goes.
erm....... lolhurricane2oo5 wrote:
(she looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp)
Post#2
If I had never been exposed to the message of Jesus, my understanding is that yes, I would go to hell. This is a question that has been debated for ages and there are people who won’t budge on both sides of this. Personally, I don’t see any wiggle room in the verse, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” All, everyone, you, me. That includes the goat herder. There are not many paths to one God or He would be unjust. The standard has to be evenly applied for justice to be upheld.
3
Acknowledging the afterlife and focusing on the world we have don’t have to be mutually exclusive. No, I don’t think the world would be a better and safer place. We discussed that in my “would the world be better without religion” thread. I don’t want to bore you with repeating it.
Sorry I didn't get very far. My wife was working tonight so I've been taking care of the kids. More to come.
1–2ATG wrote:
Okay.
Do you believe that if you had never been exposed to Jesus, would that mean you automatically go to hell.
Does the goat herder in Sri Lanka who is Hindu have to suffer eternal damnation just because he has a different god?
Wouldn't the world be a better safer place if we could all just stop with the afterlife speculation and focused in on the world we know we have?
If I had never been exposed to the message of Jesus, my understanding is that yes, I would go to hell. This is a question that has been debated for ages and there are people who won’t budge on both sides of this. Personally, I don’t see any wiggle room in the verse, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” All, everyone, you, me. That includes the goat herder. There are not many paths to one God or He would be unjust. The standard has to be evenly applied for justice to be upheld.
3
Acknowledging the afterlife and focusing on the world we have don’t have to be mutually exclusive. No, I don’t think the world would be a better and safer place. We discussed that in my “would the world be better without religion” thread. I don’t want to bore you with repeating it.
Sorry I didn't get very far. My wife was working tonight so I've been taking care of the kids. More to come.
!!!!!!!!!!!Happy Hanukkah!!!!!
Last edited by tnt_dynamite (2006-12-18 20:38:12)
perhaps someone here can answer this, if Jesus is the only way. What happens to the ones that don't chose Jesus? IE other faiths...
Sounds like a lot of deaths due to some situations that are uncontrollable IE where you are born....
ha, its funny how in the time span of reading most of these topics we now have some guy in Puerto Rica claiming he is Jesus incarnate again...anti-christ written all over him but its funny to see how people follow him even when the book that they supposably should have read warns of jackasses like him .
Sounds like a lot of deaths due to some situations that are uncontrollable IE where you are born....
ha, its funny how in the time span of reading most of these topics we now have some guy in Puerto Rica claiming he is Jesus incarnate again...anti-christ written all over him but its funny to see how people follow him even when the book that they supposably should have read warns of jackasses like him .
You quoted "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" , but i can sin right now, but ask God for forgivness and be welcome in to heaven so that quote doesn't really apply to the question being asked. For all are sinners this is true, but that doesn't answer whether choosing a different path outside the one we are born with is correct or not. So are we all going to hell because we fall short of the glory of God? Even you can say this is not true because that would imply we are all going to hell, lol that's not a good thing. Back to the question that was asked yes Salvation is through Christ only....how is this just...dunnoStingray24 wrote:
Post#21–2ATG wrote:
Okay.
Do you believe that if you had never been exposed to Jesus, would that mean you automatically go to hell.
Does the goat herder in Sri Lanka who is Hindu have to suffer eternal damnation just because he has a different god?
Wouldn't the world be a better safer place if we could all just stop with the afterlife speculation and focused in on the world we know we have?
If I had never been exposed to the message of Jesus, my understanding is that yes, I would go to hell. This is a question that has been debated for ages and there are people who won’t budge on both sides of this. Personally, I don’t see any wiggle room in the verse, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” All, everyone, you, me. That includes the goat herder. There are not many paths to one God or He would be unjust. The standard has to be evenly applied for justice to be upheld.
3
Acknowledging the afterlife and focusing on the world we have don’t have to be mutually exclusive. No, I don’t think the world would be a better and safer place. We discussed that in my “would the world be better without religion” thread. I don’t want to bore you with repeating it.
Sorry I didn't get very far. My wife was working tonight so I've been taking care of the kids. More to come.
The question of just is a difficult one for it will rely on opinion and relation to the situation. I see it as unjust the position of being born outside of a religion that is not christianity and being punished for this. That's unjust for it would be no problem to live a moral life and believe in "a" God but somehow fail to mention Jesus and be punished for this.
No disrespect there Stingray, but to me the whole question about religion is as silly as " If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?"
I mean, if you and a few million other Christians didn't believe in baby jesus, would it really matter?
How does it effect your life that there are indigenous Mayans in South America who still worship the Sun?
Who are you to say or suppose they face some sort of eternal persecution because they were never exposed to a book?
I grew up in a Mormon household, I was in the priesthood and went to the Temple. I performed the rites of baptism for the dead. I always struggled with A) endless questions and B) a nagging suspicion that I have lived before.
For these, and other reason I stopped going. I tried a few times after that, but I found the exclussionary nature of it all off putting. For example; I have always believed in my heart that man and animal and plant life are basically equal. Whatever awaits us when we die awaits your dog as well, and vice-versa. This basic axiom I hold goes against your teachings and beliefs, yet there is nothing you can do or say to convince me otherwise.
I lived in a haunted apartment in California for a little over a year. Things flew about the house; I believe there is something out there.
Christians and religious people have taken all the mystery away from life and death. You say you have faith in what happens; I have faith you don't, and the uncertainty is exciting.
I would also enquire as to what other religious books you have read besides the Bible.
I have been to Catholic masses, Baptist churches where they speak in tongues and Rick Warrens Saddleback Church. My dad in Utah has three wives and is a excommunicated Mormon. I've read books on anthropology, the history of religion, ancient civilizations and Buddhism. I have read extensively on war and the Freemasons.
To be balanced, I am going to attempt to reread the Bible ( I think I may have skipped over some of the begat parts). I just find it perplexing how so many devout christians I have met have not looked outside their own faith.
I struggled with guilt for a few years, for not believing as you do. But then it occured to me that God expected me to question and to find a higher truth, whatever form that took. I felt at peace with my faith that the trees have souls and dream of sunny days and moist soil.
I mean, if you and a few million other Christians didn't believe in baby jesus, would it really matter?
How does it effect your life that there are indigenous Mayans in South America who still worship the Sun?
Who are you to say or suppose they face some sort of eternal persecution because they were never exposed to a book?
I grew up in a Mormon household, I was in the priesthood and went to the Temple. I performed the rites of baptism for the dead. I always struggled with A) endless questions and B) a nagging suspicion that I have lived before.
For these, and other reason I stopped going. I tried a few times after that, but I found the exclussionary nature of it all off putting. For example; I have always believed in my heart that man and animal and plant life are basically equal. Whatever awaits us when we die awaits your dog as well, and vice-versa. This basic axiom I hold goes against your teachings and beliefs, yet there is nothing you can do or say to convince me otherwise.
I lived in a haunted apartment in California for a little over a year. Things flew about the house; I believe there is something out there.
Christians and religious people have taken all the mystery away from life and death. You say you have faith in what happens; I have faith you don't, and the uncertainty is exciting.
I would also enquire as to what other religious books you have read besides the Bible.
I have been to Catholic masses, Baptist churches where they speak in tongues and Rick Warrens Saddleback Church. My dad in Utah has three wives and is a excommunicated Mormon. I've read books on anthropology, the history of religion, ancient civilizations and Buddhism. I have read extensively on war and the Freemasons.
To be balanced, I am going to attempt to reread the Bible ( I think I may have skipped over some of the begat parts). I just find it perplexing how so many devout christians I have met have not looked outside their own faith.
I struggled with guilt for a few years, for not believing as you do. But then it occured to me that God expected me to question and to find a higher truth, whatever form that took. I felt at peace with my faith that the trees have souls and dream of sunny days and moist soil.
This thread is great, mainly thanks to Stingray and ATG.
My question to you Stingray, is as follows.
Are churches and (paid) priests a necessity for you to practice your faith? It seems to me that most of the bad things related to religion spring from the organization. When men are given powerful positions, some of them are bound to abuse those powers. Why elevate the status of these few individuals, when most religions teach equality? Why advocate such methods when they have so bloody consequences?
When you have your faith, couldn't a more personal and private form of worship be an alternative?
The institution has grown and grown - and the side affects with it - but still the majority of the population on earth are not Christians or any other religion and thus are doomed and on their way to hell.
In a nutshell: I think the benefits of this kind of institution cant counter the huge negative effects they have. A more personal faith could be as effective and those power hungry individuals would be out of the picture.
My question to you Stingray, is as follows.
Are churches and (paid) priests a necessity for you to practice your faith? It seems to me that most of the bad things related to religion spring from the organization. When men are given powerful positions, some of them are bound to abuse those powers. Why elevate the status of these few individuals, when most religions teach equality? Why advocate such methods when they have so bloody consequences?
When you have your faith, couldn't a more personal and private form of worship be an alternative?
The institution has grown and grown - and the side affects with it - but still the majority of the population on earth are not Christians or any other religion and thus are doomed and on their way to hell.
In a nutshell: I think the benefits of this kind of institution cant counter the huge negative effects they have. A more personal faith could be as effective and those power hungry individuals would be out of the picture.