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Poll

agree? Commanders in vehicles.

yes42%42% - 83
no57%57% - 112
Total: 195
2007-01-10 19:58:43
CTD-CaptainBuck
BLEEDING BLUE
+71|7028|Tenn
Ok i posted a rant over at TBF2(to chat with the ROE people) but i will ask the simplest question. DO NOT TELL ME YOUR OPINION ON THE ROE! Do you agree or disagree?

Here is the simple Question:
"If your commander is in a "vehicle"(mainly a buggy); If he continues to perform his duties COMPLETELY and you aren't even in harm's way(main base in trees). Do you consider that against the ROE?"

That is the question. Below is quoted from what i posted at TBF2 for a response from the ROE people cause im not registering to that god damn communist BFROE.com site.

me@TBF2 wrote:

!!!FOR THOSE WITH SHORT ATTENTION SPANS PLEASE SCROLL TO THE RED DASH!!!

what is your opinion? not on city maps. maps like Dalian Plant for instance.

Say you pick your commander. and a clanmate picks you up. k wow, the commander is in a vehicle. Whilst IN this alleged "vehicle" he still maintains full functionality as a commander should. And, your not even in the heat of the Battle. your in your mainbase checking it out in alleged, "vehicle".

this was the situation earlier. i wasn't the commander in question but he didnt get as pissed off as i did, because i was the one who picked him up and got him kicked losing all points for that round.

In ALL honesty. I was working on getting high and was idle while the commander in my vehicle stayed pretty much in commander screen the whole time(gun cocked up and to the right). Well, by whole time i meant the 1 1/2 minutes we were in the vehicle only to be artied because i had stopped for a a few seconds to load a bowl.

Not a split second after we got arty'd, i see "KICKING Commander No commanding while in a vehicle". and i add this was about 20 seconds before the round ended. so he didnt get his points and I'm to blame for him being kicked.

Funny thing about this is that we were playing in Insomnia 365 - Dalian Plant. And as you may know it is currently admined by the BFROE people. So he was kicked by a BFROE ADMIN, FOR A ROE VIOLATION. let me quote the ROE rule he told me it applied to.

Exact Copy off of ROE wrote:

(c) Players may not deliberately performing actions that hinder their own team (such as last-minute team-swapping to increase scores or statistics, excessive team-killing, destroying friendly vehicles, attacking team-mates, Uh-Oh. looks like the Gramma Police need to be called in.

deliberately placing themselves in a situation so they cause another player to team-kill them, using a vehicle while being the Commander that prevents them from performing any Commander functions (jet, etc.) or placing vehicles to block their own runways.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So as far as I'm capable of understanding, the KEY word there is "HINDER"! Which by what i have always understood is that you can basically do WHATEVER you want if people dont complain.

If you could fly around in a jet and still perform your duties as commander, I would have nothing against it, AT ALL. But, you cant. Not enough to not be a bad commander.

OK! I'm sorry but that pissed me off to no-end. The admin in question should NOT be qualified for admin powers as his failure to understand the sentences he relies on for his power.

This is NOT a discussion on how you feel about the ROE. do you agree or not?

I have more to say but i'll wait cuz im still not high yet. if you ROE dudes could get on IRC i'll be there.

sorry for the long post, obviously you had nothing better to do
2007-01-10 20:02:12
-=CB=-krazykarl
not always PWD, but usually.
+95|6796|Carlsbad, CA, USA

if it is two on more, OK but if not. FUCKING COMMAND! i do not have time to wait for you to die to bring uav, supplies, etc to me. command or fight, it's simple and plain.
2007-01-10 20:03:35
INFERNO552
One shot wonder
+62|6700|canada
i drive vehicles and kill ppl wile im commanding, but only when ive given orders and used my assets, (waitin for them to be ready again)

Last edited by INFERNO552 (2007-01-10 20:03:49)

2007-01-10 20:04:02
CTD-CaptainBuck
BLEEDING BLUE
+71|7028|Tenn
@krazykarl: seeing as you have a short attention span. HE WAS DOING HIS JOB. there is no legitimate reason he should be kicked. you obviously didnt understand the situation

Last edited by CTD-CaptainBuck (2007-01-10 20:04:30)

2007-01-10 20:06:48
Marine_fighter77
Member
+20|6616
i go in viechles when im commander one time i went in a jet and it pissed somone off like cmon wtf , is the big deal ... just another player with higher standards
2007-01-10 20:07:02
greenhaven
Member
+47|6726
Commanding from a vehicle is a perfectly good tactic, if nobody else wants to use the vehicle. On armor maps, there's usually an empty tank laying around, so I take that. It's pretty simple, you only engage the enemy while assets are reloading.
2007-01-10 20:08:20
RavyGravy
Son.
+617|6666|NSW, Australia

ok if its a jeep or a tank but not a jet or heli
2007-01-10 20:11:24
CTD-CaptainBuck
BLEEDING BLUE
+71|7028|Tenn

<<<FTDM>>>Gen.Raven wrote:

ok if its a jeep or a tank but not a jet or heli
MY fucking point exactly. I may know an Insomnia ROE admin who may not get to be admin anymore
2007-01-10 20:13:05
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6747|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
I'll admit I've done it before, but the other day I was playing a Euro map and our commander grabbed a tank, and sat in our base and did nothing..... I mean nothing, not a uav or arty nothing. I tried to mutiny but nobody voted. Ended up loosing the round. Now my view, commanders on foot or sitting in a safe place doing their job. Don't get me started on jet whoring commanders.
2007-01-10 20:18:35
Homie22
Member
+34|6872|Orange County, California
i currently have been idling in jets cause i need veteran while commander  lOL..

Last edited by Homie22 (2007-01-10 20:18:55)

2007-01-10 20:20:02
CTD-CaptainBuck
BLEEDING BLUE
+71|7028|Tenn

SgtHeihn wrote:

I'll admit I've done it before, but the other day I was playing a Euro map and our commander grabbed a tank, and sat in our base and did nothing..... I mean nothing, not a uav or arty nothing. I tried to mutiny but nobody voted. Ended up loosing the round. Now my view, commanders on foot or sitting in a safe place doing their job. Don't get me started on jet whoring commanders.
Please Bear in mind, that he was PASSENGER in a vehicle fully performing his duties.

Homie22 wrote:

i currently have been idling in jets cause i need veteran while commander  lOL..
That is ghey as hell. you fail.

Last edited by CTD-CaptainBuck (2007-01-10 20:20:33)

2007-01-10 20:23:26
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6915

Commanders in vehicles are a-ok. In fact, commanders out in the field are ok. Just so long as they are performing their commanding duties first and foremost, and as long as our team is doing well. If the commander cannot function while on the field, mutiny him.

I love commanding and I frequently go out on the field and even ride along or commandeer some vehicles. No one has complained to me yet since my team has always been just fine (that's not to say that every time I command we win, though). And before you flame me, know this: I only command from vehicles if there is an excess of vehicles. If no one is using a transport or a ground defense, I'll gladly hop in it (I never ever idly command from armor regardless). I hate the commanders who steal a perfectly good tank and just sit there in their base doing nothing. Someone else (like me) can be wreaking havoc with that tank.

In fact, I got really pissed when I was kicked from a server for "commanding in a vehicle" when all I was doing was sitting in a TOW missile at the home base.

Last edited by mtb0minime (2007-01-10 20:25:17)

2007-01-10 22:16:09
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6747|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Passenger=ok, somtimes you need a ride up to the front
2007-01-11 00:24:53
TuataraDude
Member
+115|6783|Aotearoa

CTD-CaptainBuck wrote:

@krazykarl: seeing as you have a short attention span. HE WAS DOING HIS JOB. there is no legitimate reason he should be kicked. you obviously didn't understand the situation
You are right, in the hypothetical situation, a commander in a vehicle is fine. But in reality, many people can't command and be in a vehicle at the same time. They think they can (a bit like a drunk driver thinking he can do both fine) but they are actually less effective as a commander.

Having said that, I am OK with a commander using a vehicle between asset reloads, but the moment driving around affects their ability to command, they need to hop out. If a person is that desperate to command and use the time to also clock up time in a vehicle, go passenger.
2007-01-11 00:52:09
Todd_Angelo
Leukocyte
+336|6887|Warlord
Null vote: it depends.

I don't want my side's commander piloting a helo or jet (like last night on Wake, moron... I've never seen so many mutiny or kick votes in one round against a single person) but sometimes in a game where there aren't enough people to cover everything the commander hopping in a tank or APC to fight for a flag is a good thing. As long as they pay adequate attention to command tasks overall during the game I'm okay with it.

But even in no-vehicle mode you can get some clueless twats who have no idea what the duties of command are, thinking that UAV once every few minutes is acceptable. This is the same type that tend to throw themselves into infantry battles and get killed continuously
2007-01-11 01:08:13
Macca
Cylons' my kinda frak
+72|6706|Australia.
I'm okay with it if they can Command real well.

Otherwise, mutiny those little tards, they should be watching Play School or something.
2007-01-11 01:13:53
Fenris_GreyClaw
Real Хорошо
+826|6779|Adelaide, South Australia

As long as the vehicle isn't important (IE; Tank, APC, Helo etc) or moving, I think its OK. After all, it's how I got my Basic Helicopter badge. (I sat in a transport chopper)
2007-01-11 02:13:29
oChaos.Haze
Member
+90|6698
If the team ain't complainin', then there's no grounds for ANY sort of "punishment".   The mutiny is there for a reason.  If the mutiny option is there, then an admin has NO right to decide for a team.  If the team doesn't care, and doesn't use the legal method to get rid of commander (mutiny), then the admin therefore broke ROE by prohibiting a player from using a vehicle, IMHO.


If you;re going to make rules that govern something, you gotta get rid of the gray area.  From what I've seen with ROE, there seems to be a lot of gray.  But, I'm also a huge idiot who wears sex panther in my apartment that reeks of rich mahogany.

Last edited by oChaos.Haze (2007-01-11 02:16:15)

2007-01-11 04:46:50
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6945|United States of America
I don't like to occupy the vehicles my team needs whilst I am simply the commander so I usually run to just near the front lines and hunker down. I hate the people who hide under a hanger and look at their damn screen all day even though the team is losing all their rear bases.

However, I did get my Vet/Expert Ground Defense by whoring the HJ-8 on Ghost Town combined with artillery strikes while on the weapon.
2007-01-11 04:52:47
UK|Hooligan
Seriously, fuck off.
+103|6948|"The Empire"
I only ever use a vehicle when commanding if a) nobody uses it and i can use it to help, if someone asks for it  though then i will jump out. b) the team is losing and i think i could again help. But NEVER from Heli or plane, it is impossible to fly and command!!!
2007-01-11 05:04:07
MastersMom
YOUR mom goes to college
+61|6915
Ok so I answered the poll before I even read the first post.  I thought it was asking if commanders should use vehicles or not and to be honest, after reading the first post I was so confused by the poll question I don't even remember what I answered.  So I'll say this:

Under no circumstances should commanders use jets, choppers, or armor.  The car/buggy/vodnik/etc, I could care less about.  In fact I would prefer the commander to use a one of the cars because it will help him get to assets quicker to repair them (I don't think it's a good use of a supply box to fix your assets...go engineer and fix them yourself).  Jets, choppers, and armor are far too leathal to be used by someone who's splitting time with that weapon and command duties.  Or, if they are not splitting thier time, than they are neglecting their duties.  I agree that you either fight or command, but I think a car could be more help than hinderance.
2007-01-11 05:05:11
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7053

CTD-CaptainBuck wrote:

Ok i posted a rant over at TBF2(to chat with the ROE people) but i will ask the simplest question. DO NOT TELL ME YOUR OPINION ON THE ROE! Do you agree or disagree?

Here is the simple Question:
"If your commander is in a "vehicle"(mainly a buggy); If he continues to perform his duties COMPLETELY and you aren't even in harm's way(main base in trees). Do you consider that against the ROE?"

That is the question. Below is quoted from what i posted at TBF2 for a response from the ROE people cause im not registering to that god damn communist BFROE.com site.

what is your opinion? not on city maps. maps like Dalian Plant for instance.

Say you pick your commander. and a clanmate picks you up. k wow, the commander is in a vehicle. Whilst IN this alleged "vehicle" he still maintains full functionality as a commander should. And, your not even in the heat of the Battle. your in your mainbase checking it out in alleged, "vehicle".

this was the situation earlier. i wasn't the commander in question but he didnt get as pissed off as i did, because i was the one who picked him up and got him kicked losing all points for that round.

In ALL honesty. I was working on getting high and was idle while the commander in my vehicle stayed pretty much in commander screen the whole time(gun cocked up and to the right). Well, by whole time i meant the 1 1/2 minutes we were in the vehicle only to be artied because i had stopped for a a few seconds to load a bowl.

Not a split second after we got arty'd, i see "KICKING Commander No commanding while in a vehicle". and i add this was about 20 seconds before the round ended. so he didnt get his points and I'm to blame for him being kicked.

Funny thing about this is that we were playing in Insomnia 365 - Dalian Plant. And as you may know it is currently admined by the BFROE people. So he was kicked by a BFROE ADMIN, FOR A ROE VIOLATION. let me quote the ROE rule he told me it applied to.
It's quite simple, the server is allowed to impose a "No commanding while in a vehicle" rule.  That's what the ROE said last time I looked at it.  It does not matter whether he was being effective or whatever, it's a rule that servers can enforce and you have no comeback if they do.

Having said that, look at what you said.  For a straight 90 seconds the commander was doing his job of commanding, only from the gunner's seat of the most potent weapon your team has available - the attack helicopter.

I don't call that an effective use of resources, I call that hindering your team.  It's just the same as if he was sitting in a tank, refusing to move.
2007-01-11 05:07:59
MastersMom
YOUR mom goes to college
+61|6915

DesertFox423 wrote:

I don't like to occupy the vehicles my team needs whilst I am simply the commander so I usually run to just near the front lines and hunker down. I hate the people who hide under a hanger and look at their damn screen all day even though the team is losing all their rear bases.

However, I did get my Vet/Expert Ground Defense by whoring the HJ-8 on Ghost Town combined with artillery strikes while on the weapon.
That's how I got my gold AA and Ground Defense.  I got the bronze and silvers for both of them by actually killing people with mg or the mobile aa.  But couldn't get 20 in around with either one of them.  Not proud of it, but I'm thinking a lot of people do it...and if a lot of people don't do it, than they should cause holy crap it's easy. 
2007-01-11 05:08:26
FFLink
There is.
+1,380|6951|Devon, England
I don't, plenty of times I have had ashit team, and the only way we get far is when I, the commander, does something myself.

I can do both at once, so I don;t see why no one else can.
2007-01-11 05:09:10
The_Jester
Member
+52|6751|Italy
Was that commander a hinderance for his team? Yes, not sitting in a safe, arty-proof spot and getting killed means 15 seconds without commander support. And way more time without uav/scan/arty, if an enemy spec-op blew them up while he was rambling around the map. 2 choices in that case: supply crate/s wasted to repair the commander assets (no supply support for friendly armors) or going all the way back to repair them (lot of time without proper commander support).

And if he was always on the commander screen, why going around in a transport anyway?

For me, the commander should always hide somewhere in the main base, ALWAYS as engineer. He can use abandoned vehicles to defend the base, or to prevent the enemy from stealing them.
Possible exceptions: there are very few people, like 6v6. In this case I prefer a fighting commander, if he can command well anyway.
Or when the team is losing some back flags and nobody defend them.

 

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