I thought what would be more interesting would be explaining why religion would cause a feud in Europe when Europe was entirely Christian at the time.
Well that's kind of like asking why religion would cause a feud in the Middle East when they're all Muslim.Bubbalo wrote:
I thought what would be more interesting would be explaining why religion would cause a feud in Europe when Europe was entirely Christian at the time.
Nevertheless, most wars (all full scale wars) were not about religion.
Key difference: religious issues in the ME are caused by fueds between different groups (Sunni, Shi'ite, etc.). In WWI, Italy, the home of Catholicism, and Germany, the home of Protestantism, were loosely aligned. That is to say: The two groups whose religions were most incompatable were on the same side (excluding Turkey, who were on the same side anyway).
Which is why I said "kind of". Neither of the labeled World Wars were caused by Religion, but there have been and always will be religious differences between Protestants and Catholics.Bubbalo wrote:
Key difference: religious issues in the ME are caused by fueds between different groups (Sunni, Shi'ite, etc.). In WWI, Italy, the home of Catholicism, and Germany, the home of Protestantism, were loosely aligned. That is to say: The two groups whose religions were most incompatable were on the same side (excluding Turkey, who were on the same side anyway).
Why, look at nations around the world, especially the USA, you have christians, muslims, jew's and any other you care to mention, and appart from some issues in parts, we get on fine, world wide would just be that on a much larger scale.usmarine2007 wrote:
Unless you get rid of religion...............nope.
Martyn
Devolution is the way forward, not consolidation of power among fewer individuals.
FUCK the un, they can suck my cock
The U.S is one crisis away from entering into the NAU, North American Union, with Canada and Mexico. The dollar will be scrapped in favor of the new currency, the amero, used by all three countries. Notice how Europe has already formed a bloc, the EU. With the NAU, another big step will be taken. Africa can form the African Union, the NAU will expand to include South America, then once Asia gets united (middle east included) all that remains is to unite the blocs into a New World Order of a one-world government, which the globalist elite have been trying to do since 1918.
Alex Jones FTW
I saw a piece on the NAU on Lou Dobbs a few months ago. Look up CFR and NAU if you're interested. It's the Council on Foreign Relations who is pushing the NAU. Lou Dobbs, being the fervent nationalist he is, opposed the NAU. Personally I'm reminded of my youth, when I would watch my uncle herd cattle to be slaughtered.
Decentraliztion > Centralization
Alex Jones FTW
I saw a piece on the NAU on Lou Dobbs a few months ago. Look up CFR and NAU if you're interested. It's the Council on Foreign Relations who is pushing the NAU. Lou Dobbs, being the fervent nationalist he is, opposed the NAU. Personally I'm reminded of my youth, when I would watch my uncle herd cattle to be slaughtered.
Decentraliztion > Centralization
the fascists were pretty religious in their beliefs about jews and killed hundreds of thousands, you saying that doesn't count?usmarine2007 wrote:
Wrong.SysTray wrote:
Except our Civil War....and WW2....and the Mexican War....etc.usmarine2007 wrote:
Yes I do. Religion has been the base of ALL wars.
me?Fenix14 wrote:
the fascists were pretty religious in their beliefs about jews and killed hundreds of thousands, you saying that doesn't count?usmarine2007 wrote:
Wrong.SysTray wrote:
Except our Civil War....and WW2....and the Mexican War....etc.
Actually, Fascism didn't get along with religion, which is what makes the term Islamo-Fascists so funny.Fenix14 wrote:
the fascists were pretty religious in their beliefs about jews and killed hundreds of thousands, you saying that doesn't count?usmarine2007 wrote:
Wrong.SysTray wrote:
Except our Civil War....and WW2....and the Mexican War....etc.
I'm waiting on that explanation, usmarine2007.
Bubbalo wrote:
Actually, Fascism didn't get along with religion, which is what makes the term Islamo-Fascists so funny.Fenix14 wrote:
the fascists were pretty religious in their beliefs about jews and killed hundreds of thousands, you saying that doesn't count?usmarine2007 wrote:
Wrong.
I'm waiting on that explanation, usmarine2007.
That sentence makes it pretty clear what fascists think about religion.Mussolini (Italian fascist leader from WWII) wrote:
Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity. ... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. ... Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number. ... We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
and why do you say this?hate&discontent wrote:
FUCK the un, they can suck my cock
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"Bubbalo wrote:
Actually, Fascism didn't get along with religion, which is what makes the term Islamo-Fascists so funny.Fenix14 wrote:
the fascists were pretty religious in their beliefs about jews and killed hundreds of thousands, you saying that doesn't count?usmarine2007 wrote:
Wrong.
I'm waiting on that explanation, usmarine2007.
Happy?
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"SysTray wrote:
Too bad his brain will implode trying to figure out how Hitler was fighting for his god.Bubbalo wrote:
I think we're going about this the wrong, SysTray. Perhaps we should ask usmarine to give us a rundown of the cause of both World Wars, and their relation to religion.
Suprise, my brain did not explode.
Link to the speech, reference to the book you found it in...etc please. Also, surprise has an R before the P.usmarine2007 wrote:
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"SysTray wrote:
Too bad his brain will implode trying to figure out how Hitler was fighting for his god.Bubbalo wrote:
I think we're going about this the wrong, SysTray. Perhaps we should ask usmarine to give us a rundown of the cause of both World Wars, and their relation to religion.
Suprise, my brain did not explode.
No need to be a smart ass. I provided you the source where it came from, if you want to, look it up yourself.SysTray wrote:
Link to the speech, reference to the book you found it in...etc please. Also, surprise has an R before the P.usmarine2007 wrote:
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"SysTray wrote:
Too bad his brain will implode trying to figure out how Hitler was fighting for his god.
Suprise, my brain did not explode.
Here is another one.
"Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook. [Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, p. 171]"
The Crusades ?SysTray wrote:
Religious and morals are two different things, friend. You can't say by any means that all people that follow a religion have morals and are righteous, and you can't say that people with morals follow a religion.usmarine2007 wrote:
Morals and righteousness were/are based of religious ideals.SysTray wrote:
Rofl ok. Tell me why instead of shitting out of your mouth.
Religious wars are more like attritions, they are not full scale like the wars we think about. A bombing here, a bombing there...some assassinations, etc. Those are religious wars.
The full scale wars aren't based off of religion.
Wouldn't work. Nothing would ever get done. Far too many divides among people, not just religious. Plus, how effective is the UN? Would you really want them to making decisions that actually affect you, unlike what they decide after years of debate to do about a drought somewhere in Africa.
Globalization is increasing. However, that doesn't mean we'll have one World Government anytime soon.
Countries have national interest which they don't give up that easily. That's also why many people in Europe voted 'no' for a European constitution.
That'll also be the one of the most important reasons why we won't have one sole government overlooking the entire world.
Countries have national interest which they don't give up that easily. That's also why many people in Europe voted 'no' for a European constitution.
That'll also be the one of the most important reasons why we won't have one sole government overlooking the entire world.
Well there is a spell check feature now. Anyway, that second quote means nothing to your argument. Religion does not always parallel spirit. You can be fanatical in your views without having them be religious.usmarine2007 wrote:
No need to be a smart ass. I provided you the source where it came from, if you want to, look it up yourself.SysTray wrote:
Link to the speech, reference to the book you found it in...etc please. Also, surprise has an R before the P.usmarine2007 wrote:
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"
Suprise, my brain did not explode.
Here is another one.
"Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook. [Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, p. 171]"
It's not my job here to look up your facts to see if they are true, you should always cite your sources.
Reichstag Speech, March 7, 1936.
(Translation.)
"I would like the German people to learn to see in other nations historical realities which a visionary may well like to wish away, but which cannot be wished away. I should like them to realise that it is unreasonable to try and bring these historical realities into opposition with the demands of their vital interests and to their understandable claims to live. I would therefore like the German people to understand the inner motives of National Socialist foreign policy, which finds it painful that the outlet to the sea of a people of 35 millions is situated on territory formerly belonging to the Reich, but which recognises that it is unreasonable and impossible to deny a State of such a size as this any outlet to the sea at all .... It is possible that politicians, particularly by invoking might, may carry out such violations of national interests; but the more frequently this happens, the greater becomes the pressure for an outlet of the excited and constrained powers and energies."
Source : http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/bb/bb-028.html
By the way, I don't see anything about an almighty creator...
(Translation.)
"I would like the German people to learn to see in other nations historical realities which a visionary may well like to wish away, but which cannot be wished away. I should like them to realise that it is unreasonable to try and bring these historical realities into opposition with the demands of their vital interests and to their understandable claims to live. I would therefore like the German people to understand the inner motives of National Socialist foreign policy, which finds it painful that the outlet to the sea of a people of 35 millions is situated on territory formerly belonging to the Reich, but which recognises that it is unreasonable and impossible to deny a State of such a size as this any outlet to the sea at all .... It is possible that politicians, particularly by invoking might, may carry out such violations of national interests; but the more frequently this happens, the greater becomes the pressure for an outlet of the excited and constrained powers and energies."
Source : http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/bb/bb-028.html
By the way, I don't see anything about an almighty creator...
"I would like the German people to learn to see in other nations historical realities which a visionary may well like to wish away, but which cannot be wished away. I should like them to realise that it is unreasonable to try and bring these historical realities into opposition with the demands of their vital interests and to their understandable claims to live. I would therefore like the German people to understand the inner motives of National Socialist foreign policy, which finds it painful that the outlet to the sea of a people of 35 millions is situated on territory formerly belonging to the Reich, but which recognises that it is unreasonable and impossible to deny a State of such a size as this any outlet to the sea at all .... It is possible that politicians, particularly by invoking might, may carry out such violations of national interests; but the more frequently this happens, the greater becomes the pressure for an outlet of the excited and constrained powers and energies."
I do
I do
Last edited by Vilham (2007-01-12 09:35:08)
Holy shit he made a post that belongs in this forum!The Bartenders Son wrote:
Should we be governed by a "world government", with the United Nations Assembly becoming a directly elected parliament? Should nation-states give up more of their sovereignty to supranational institutions?
P.S
Ok i created this for the people that did not like my other post i.e Water and Napalm lol.. have fun!
Nah, I'd rather not have a world government. The ME countries alone would cause a problem, what with two groups of the same religion hating each other's guts and all that.
Are you blind? My sources are cited.SysTray wrote:
Well there is a spell check feature now. Anyway, that second quote means nothing to your argument. Religion does not always parallel spirit. You can be fanatical in your views without having them be religious.usmarine2007 wrote:
No need to be a smart ass. I provided you the source where it came from, if you want to, look it up yourself.SysTray wrote:
Link to the speech, reference to the book you found it in...etc please. Also, surprise has an R before the P.
Here is another one.
"Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook. [Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, p. 171]"
It's not my job here to look up your facts to see if they are true, you should always cite your sources.