I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.Major_Spittle wrote:
Are you suggesting I throw "caution" into the wind, because that is the only advice you gave me when dealing with the .0001% of the Muslim population that wishes ill toward me.
Maybe Madrid and London should have treated their radical islamic population with more caution, but then again they were never attacked at all before then by muslims so they didn't want to wet themselves and look foolish in your eyes.
For the hundredth time, Iraq WAS NOT "hit" because of terrorism. It was "hit" because it was breaking the UN resolutions that brought a cease fire to the conflict started in '90... Terrorism entered Iraq after Saddam fell. Iraq is a front on the war on terror, it isn't the defining battle to win or loose the war on terror. Stop trying to argue that we went to Iraq for terrorism when you know it isn't true Cam.CameronPoe wrote:
I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.Major_Spittle wrote:
Are you suggesting I throw "caution" into the wind, because that is the only advice you gave me when dealing with the .0001% of the Muslim population that wishes ill toward me.
Maybe Madrid and London should have treated their radical islamic population with more caution, but then again they were never attacked at all before then by muslims so they didn't want to wet themselves and look foolish in your eyes.
I know the official reason to go into Iraq wasn't terrorism but as soon as you were in suddenly it became part of the 'war on terror'. And it's the reason Bush bandies about when trying to justify continued occupation. That place ain't gonna calm down and the people there will not be able to harm you if you just go home and close your borders. Heck - 10 Islamic extremists could have crossed the mexican border today for all we know.lowing wrote:
For the hundredth time, Iraq WAS NOT "hit" because of terrorism. It was "hit" because it was breaking the UN resolutions that brought a cease fire to the conflict started in '90... Terrorism entered Iraq after Saddam fell. Iraq is a front on the war on terror, it isn't the defining battle to win or loose the war on terror. Stop trying to argue that we went to Iraq for terrorism when you know it isn't true Cam.CameronPoe wrote:
I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.Major_Spittle wrote:
Are you suggesting I throw "caution" into the wind, because that is the only advice you gave me when dealing with the .0001% of the Muslim population that wishes ill toward me.
Maybe Madrid and London should have treated their radical islamic population with more caution, but then again they were never attacked at all before then by muslims so they didn't want to wet themselves and look foolish in your eyes.
I agree with everything except the last part about Iraq. The US had every right, the UN said so. Iraq violated a cease fire treaty for 8 years before the US did anything.CameronPoe wrote:
I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.Major_Spittle wrote:
Are you suggesting I throw "caution" into the wind, because that is the only advice you gave me when dealing with the .0001% of the Muslim population that wishes ill toward me.
Maybe Madrid and London should have treated their radical islamic population with more caution, but then again they were never attacked at all before then by muslims so they didn't want to wet themselves and look foolish in your eyes.
I'm not sure what we are arguing about anymore because you keep posting things about stuff I have never said.
I just made a smart ass comment about you saying we should laugh off what the .0001% of radical muslims who want to kill us say. You keep talking about Iraq, US borders, my fears, Madrid, sexy jihadists, pants wetting, therapy, caution, and fear.
The conversation isn't fun when you stop making silly statements to make fun of.
You think the Mexicans want to ruin their cush deal with us by allowing Muslims to enter from their side?? You have got to be kidding me. . . the Mexicans know if Muslims start crossing from their side and stir up shit, their gravy train is over! From a guy who lives on the "front line" of illegal immigration in California, I can tell you from speaking with many mexicans I know, this is a touchy subject for them too! They like the fact they essentially move freely through our borders without any major problems. They do not want the radicals to interfere with their money tree which is the Californian job markets. Now the cartels might deal with the terrorists in TJ for a price, but I dont know too much to comment fully on that.CameronPoe wrote:
I know the official reason to go into Iraq wasn't terrorism but as soon as you were in suddenly it became part of the 'war on terror'. And it's the reason Bush bandies about when trying to justify continued occupation. That place ain't gonna calm down and the people there will not be able to harm you if you just go home and close your borders. Heck - 10 Islamic extremists could have crossed the mexican border today for all we know.lowing wrote:
For the hundredth time, Iraq WAS NOT "hit" because of terrorism. It was "hit" because it was breaking the UN resolutions that brought a cease fire to the conflict started in '90... Terrorism entered Iraq after Saddam fell. Iraq is a front on the war on terror, it isn't the defining battle to win or loose the war on terror. Stop trying to argue that we went to Iraq for terrorism when you know it isn't true Cam.CameronPoe wrote:
I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.
BTW, thats our state governments fault for not putting a moratorium on mexicans trying to come here. That is democrat leadership and Arnolds stupid ass not doing what they said they would do. . . We are flat out getting invaded by Mexico from the south, its really depressing and rediculous!
Iraq is now a front, we cannot abandon these people in which freed 3 years ago. Just becasue things are bad doesnt mean we pack up like a bunch of bitches and leave. That sends a terrible message to our soldiers and emboldens the terrorists more. It says to the terrorists that if you wait out the USA, they will eventually leave. Its bullshit by the democrats to not see that Iraq has to be won to ensure that the region remains stabelized. Granted I dont think 20,000 more troops will do a goddamn thing to clean up baghdad, but we cannot continue to do nothing. Iran and Syria need to be sent a messge to stop fucking with the insurgent groups in my opinion. Whether that be through back channels or flat out military strikes. . . Iran needs to stop antagonizing the situation, but we all know they wont stop unless stopped (aka fired upon)!
Either way WE NEED TO WIN! winning is more important than saving face with the pussy ass Europeans. . .Winning is more important than pissing off corrupt Putin and his gestapo type government. Remove frivolous ROE's and give war a fighting chance. . .let our military take the gloves off and beat some people down like we started doing at the beginning! Terrorists respond to direct violence inflicted on them, not bullshit peace agreements or concessions. . .I found it ironic al-Qaeda/Taliban QUICKLY wanted to come to negotiations once we started bombing the fuck out of them in late 01', they did that because someone/anyone made them pay for their actions(wasnt because France or Germany threatened UN sanctions on them).
It's like an onion! The 'Official' reason was a ceasefire treaty, after that it was WMD, then terrorism, and underneath it all the real reason is control of the oil trade.CameronPoe wrote:
I know the official reason to go into Iraq wasn't terrorism but as soon as you were in suddenly it became part of the 'war on terror'. And it's the reason Bush bandies about when trying to justify continued occupation. That place ain't gonna calm down and the people there will not be able to harm you if you just go home and close your borders. Heck - 10 Islamic extremists could have crossed the mexican border today for all we know.lowing wrote:
For the hundredth time, Iraq WAS NOT "hit" because of terrorism. It was "hit" because it was breaking the UN resolutions that brought a cease fire to the conflict started in '90... Terrorism entered Iraq after Saddam fell. Iraq is a front on the war on terror, it isn't the defining battle to win or loose the war on terror. Stop trying to argue that we went to Iraq for terrorism when you know it isn't true Cam.CameronPoe wrote:
I suggest your government closes its borders and looks at who comes in and what your own citizens do and deal with the matter legally. They're nothing more than common criminals - don't put them up on some pedestal: 'jihadists', very sexy sounding - it makes them sound like legit soldiers with a cause. You fight them with the law and domestic security not bombing the shit out of countries who happen to harbour a couple of hundred of them. Hitting Afghanistan was legit - but not Iraq.
BOTTOM LINE . . .
All this political posturing is BULLSHIT!
Either the Democrats cut the funding and ACCEPT defeat and send our troops out of Iraq now,
Or. . . .
HELP the Republicans to find a solution to victory, which means END the posturing and threats and give Bush the tools necessary to win. Send forth a VIABLE bipartisan plan of action to make sure we protect our interests and the innocents that would surely be killed without our help. Aka, a winning strategy as opposed to soley bashing Bush and essentially our military effort (which has been absolutely stellar btw, we truely have the best military in the world).
The fact that the Democrats are more concerned with Bush losing than they are concerned with OUR MILITARY WINNING is repulsive. . . .I can tell you, if Bush were to go with the "current" democrat plan of immediate withdrawl, that would have MAJOR political and security issues in 08. You say Iraq is "out of control" now, wait till we leave without any coehesive plan for the future. . .
The fact that you say "Oh NO we will be in Iraq forever, the war will never end <----rant !!!!!" Question: Have we left Japan, Korea, or Germany since those conflicts?? Have those countries not been expodentially improved as a direct result of USA occupation there (over the years)????
Since getting out like a bitch(which is the democrat plan for Iraq) after Vietnam and not leaving troops there, has that country been better off or worse??. . . .hmmmm
All this political posturing is BULLSHIT!
Either the Democrats cut the funding and ACCEPT defeat and send our troops out of Iraq now,
Or. . . .
HELP the Republicans to find a solution to victory, which means END the posturing and threats and give Bush the tools necessary to win. Send forth a VIABLE bipartisan plan of action to make sure we protect our interests and the innocents that would surely be killed without our help. Aka, a winning strategy as opposed to soley bashing Bush and essentially our military effort (which has been absolutely stellar btw, we truely have the best military in the world).
The fact that the Democrats are more concerned with Bush losing than they are concerned with OUR MILITARY WINNING is repulsive. . . .I can tell you, if Bush were to go with the "current" democrat plan of immediate withdrawl, that would have MAJOR political and security issues in 08. You say Iraq is "out of control" now, wait till we leave without any coehesive plan for the future. . .
The fact that you say "Oh NO we will be in Iraq forever, the war will never end <----rant !!!!!" Question: Have we left Japan, Korea, or Germany since those conflicts?? Have those countries not been expodentially improved as a direct result of USA occupation there (over the years)????
Since getting out like a bitch(which is the democrat plan for Iraq) after Vietnam and not leaving troops there, has that country been better off or worse??. . . .hmmmm
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-01-18 18:32:05)
Is Bush not "posturing" by attempting to save face on the invasion of Iraq instead of solving the situation? He has continued to make sure that his choices were reputable, and admirable, instead of admitting mistakes. You can say that the U.S. needs to win, but can it win? You say that terrorists would be emboldened, but have they not become stronger by the invasion of Iraq? A "terrible message" to the soldiers? Why exactly is that, and how will it negatively affect your country, especially if their withdrawal may be positive? Will leaving honestly make the situation worse?
You talk of Korea, Japan, and Germany- Much different situations. You cannot use these situations as something to compare to today's war, and you cannot use Hitler as an example. Yes, Europe and the world as a whole mostly ignored him. But they also did not want to start another war, so they attempted to avoid it. As well, not every possible threat will be another Hitler. You are fearmongering- Ironically, just as Hitler did. We are hardly advocating an end to policies that seek destruction of international criminals, but the current administration has failed. I do not defend either party, but the entire American policy as a whole.
You talk of Korea, Japan, and Germany- Much different situations. You cannot use these situations as something to compare to today's war, and you cannot use Hitler as an example. Yes, Europe and the world as a whole mostly ignored him. But they also did not want to start another war, so they attempted to avoid it. As well, not every possible threat will be another Hitler. You are fearmongering- Ironically, just as Hitler did. We are hardly advocating an end to policies that seek destruction of international criminals, but the current administration has failed. I do not defend either party, but the entire American policy as a whole.
i am so sorry i misinterpreted it was a ROSE not a knife going across DANIEL PEARL and NICK BERG neck...it is all in black and white....again i am so sorry......pleaseDrakef wrote:
Way to completely misinterpret the entire concept.chkr wrote:
correct me if i am wrong !!!! according to THE LEFT in America, WE need to understand Islam!! there ARE no Radical Islam..Listen to see what Islam want and compromise....LOL...no thanks i pass on this one, i had live under communist and know what it is like, i am so afraid to find out what life would be like under Islam.........Is there a State in America that only republican live? i would like to move there please........
Bush has actually been pretty contrite from what I have seen, he has admitted mistakes and IS WILLING to make amends. . .Drakef wrote:
Is Bush not "posturing" by attempting to save face on the invasion of Iraq instead of solving the situation? He has continued to make sure that his choices were reputable, and admirable, instead of admitting mistakes. You can say that the U.S. needs to win, but can it win? You say that terrorists would be emboldened, but have they not become stronger by the invasion of Iraq? A "terrible message" to the soldiers? Why exactly is that, and how will it negatively affect your country, especially if their withdrawal may be positive? Will leaving honestly make the situation worse?
You talk of Korea, Japan, and Germany- Much different situations. You cannot use these situations as something to compare to today's war, and you cannot use Hitler as an example. Yes, Europe and the world as a whole mostly ignored him. But they also did not want to start another war, so they attempted to avoid it. As well, not every possible threat will be another Hitler. You are fearmongering- Ironically, just as Hitler did. We are hardly advocating an end to policies that seek destruction of international criminals, but the current administration has failed. I do not defend either party, but the entire American policy as a whole.
As far as us winning the war in Iraq. . . IT IS absolutely winnable, by and large most of the violence is concentrated in an around Baghdad. You secure the capital, you secure the country. . . that has yet to be done therefore that is why we are at the current impass.
In regards to the terrorists being emboldend. . . .You wait out the MOST POWERFUL military in the world, because they are more concerned about money, loss of life, and political implications. To the terrorist that is the most emboldening thing you could do for them. . . .basically you (the terrorist) waited out, therefore (beat) the most devastating army in the world by simply holding your ground. See what you dont get, is they dont care how much money it costs, how many of them die, what their leaders do, as long as Americans/Jews/Western sympathizers die in large numbers. They are committed to their cause and anyways to achieve their sick perverted goals. . .and that is death en mass.
What it tells the soldiers is that they can fight, but with one hand tied behind their backs. . . You can kill them, but. . .aka "Dont shoot up the mosque holding 100+ fighters cause the NY Times might claim too much collateral damage to the city blah blah blah". It means great you are in the military, but when this war gets unpopular a few more will die to protect some phantom ROE. Not too mention leaving now also negates all the work done by those who fought and died since 03'. To just get up and leave sends a message that we are unable to overcome adversity. As well as "take the easy way out" as opposed to honoring what we set out to do, which was rid Iraq of tyranny. Simply leaving will create more tyranny and murder than we have seen since the beginning of the insurgency. So simply getting up and leaving is not a viable plan for success. . . .
How was Korea, Japan, Germany any different. . . they were wars, conflicts, whatever you want to call it. American men and women fighting for their country. Different times yes, but it's Americans putting their lives on the line for their nation. We lost 400,000+in WWII, 30,000+ in Korea, and 58,000+ in Vietnam, and thus far 3,000 + in Iraq, yet people want to make Iraq this graveyard of American dead. . .it couldnt be to the contrary. What good did Korea or Vietnam do for this country?? We have a real chance to improve the middle east, and our "allies" are dragging their feat because of selfish personal reasons. . . not too mention covering their ass's cause they dealt with Saddam behind the USA's back. . .
The ignorance and foolhardyness of the Europeans to properly recognize the threat from Hitler's facism is no different than their attitude towards Islamic Fundamentalism. They simply didnt care until he started invading nations in Europe, just like they wont care until the Muslims start regularly bombing European cities. . .Which is only a matter of time. . .
I am not fearmongering. . . I am not telling people on these forums that we should be rounding up muslims and sending them into internment camps. I am not telling people we need to destroy their shops and mosques and make them wear indentifying markings so people on the street know their muslim. . . I am not saying that at all, what I am saying is we need to take this threat VERY SERIOUSLY. Hitler didnt have nukes, and if he did, he would have used them, these people have access to them, and are in active pursuit of obtaining a nuke and using it against us. Not too mention the variety of conventional means of attack (as displayed on 9/11) they continue to actively pursue and carry out.
This administration has not failed one bit, it has made mistakes, but failure has not occured YET. I could list tons of security achievements, the basic one being we have yet to be attacked on our soild since 9/11. People act as if the security business is easy, we expect our CIA to be right 100% of the time, its rediculous, they are human just like you or I. . .nobody's perfect. Bush isnt perfect, but he isnt the devil either, he just needs help from the world and his own nation to win this war.
For Europe and the Democrat party to throw our military and our nations long time security "under the bus" because they dont like George Bush is fucking repugnant. . . .thats what it comes down to, the dislike of George Bush. . .grow the fuck up, he isnt going anywhere anytime soon, so either you grab a pale and bail the water out of the boat, or jump out! But please stop poking holes for the sake of you not liking the guy driving the boat.
Again, steve, how about answering my question ? I reckognize the threat terrorists ( of all backgrounds, btw, not just islamic ) pose to my personal safety, but not on a national level. They can explode car bombs, or send suicide bombers into our cities, but what are they going to achieve, I ask you ? We have been dealing with terrorists groups ( RAF, ETA, IRA ) for decades in europe, and none of them has ever had the potential to attack a nation. The islamics are no different.fadedsteve wrote:
I am not paranoid at all, I just see the writing on the wall. . .B.Schuss wrote:
oh, please... another US guy who believes that there is some big-time international muslim conspiracy to overthrow western nations. None of the muslims I know gives a damn about islamic extremists.fadedsteve wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I dont have a problem with people immigrating to another country. . . .
What I DO have a problem with, is those immigrants not assimilating, and spewing hate about the country in which they are now living (i.e. that radical Imam in UK). THAT is the major problem Europe is having to deal with (just ask the French!), and thats a lack of assimilation and cooperation with the immigrants.
Having this lack of assimilation mixed with the radical side of Islam created a serious problem. Like I said before, Europe is a powder keg waiting to go off! Its only a matter of time till the muslims in Europe eventually turn on their new nation(s)! YOU WATCH how Europe will react when this eventually DOES happen!
They are mostly totally westernized themselves, and way too happy to even be bothered to get on the streets and demonstrate.
And even if a large enough number of them could be mobilized ( and lord knows that is about as likely as Britney Spears running for President ), what would they do ? Storm the Parliament ? Overthrow the government ? With their bare hands ? come on..
They'd need weapons, tanks, airplanes, choppers, where is that going to come from ?
Seriously, Steve, that's Paranoia, plain and simple.
The few ( and they are very few ) islamic extremists that boast such rethoric are closely monitored by federal police and anti-terrorist agencies over here in europe. Just like their neo-nazi counterparts, by the way.
The riots in France last year were un-organized and had serious social reasons, not some form of islamistic background. Those kids started throwing rocks and set busses on fire because they are unemployed, live in shitty conditions and have no future whatsoever.
Am I afraid of the muslim population here in germany ? Hell no. I actually think I am more likely to have my face smashed in by a white guy in a bar fight for no reason than have a german muslim attack me for religious reasons.
Europe saw all the nationalistic Nazi things that went on in your country for YEARS and said "Oh that Hitler guy is full of it, he wont do anything drastic, he is just a short guy with a gay mustache.". . .they are eating their words now arent they! Europe has a way of blowing things off. . . .and waiting UNTIL they spiral out of control to act.
Bottom line is how can you be so cavalier about them (muslims in europe) either?. . .what makes you think they wont attack Germany? What makes you think they flat out wont re-attack Spain or Italy etc.
Those riots in France started out small and lasted for days!! It was a problem for the French police to control!! They (muslim students) started shit, and it spiraled out of control. Imagine what a sphoisticated terrorist network operating in Europe could/continue to do???
Look, the bottom line is this threat IS REAL, this is not a uptopian society in which we all live in! These radicals want to kill people as evident in the various attacks over the past few years. My question is why have an attitude of indignation towards the USA, when all we are trying to do stop global terrorism. Why not join the team and come in for the big win. . . . This starts by iradicating radical Islam from within before it EVENTUALLY spirals into a larger problem all across Europe.
Your comparison to Nazi Germany is flawed. Nazi Germany was a whole nation in the heart of europe, militarized, industrialized, organized, well-motivated.
Islamic extremists, on the other hand, are a tiny minority. They don't have the numbers, nor the equipment to pose a treat to any of the european nations. Moreover, they don't have the support of their communities.
They are isolated, and all they can possibly do is blow up a bus or train here and there.
And as terrible as this might be, it will not bring any european country down..
Spain is still there, Britain is still there, France is still there. Hell, The US is still there, more than 5 years after 09/11.
Those people are criminals, and our law enforcement agencies are after them. Why do you have so little trust ? What are you so afraid of ?
What do you expect us to do ? Turn Germany once again into a fascist police state, for a little more "security" ? No. That would mean sacrificing everything we claim to fight for.
There is no 100% security, no 100% control. That's the price we pay for living in an open, free society.
acutally Australia has a muslim problem,
so, tell me steve, what exactly are you saying ? and what makes you think european law enforcement and anti-terrorist agencies are not taking the threat the terrorists pose seriously ?fadedsteve wrote:
...am not fearmongering. . . I am not telling people on these forums that we should be rounding up muslims and sending them into internment camps. I am not telling people we need to destroy their shops and mosques and make them wear indentifying markings so people on the street know their muslim. . . I am not saying that at all, what I am saying is we need to take this threat VERY SERIOUSLY. Hitler didnt have nukes, and if he did, he would have used them, these people have access to them, and are in active pursuit of obtaining a nuke and using it against us. Not too mention the variety of conventional means of attack (as displayed on 9/11) they continue to actively pursue and carry out.
We support the war on terror as much as our laws will allow us. We have troops in Afghanistan, for example.
Or are you just mad about the criticism the US has been faced with over the Iraq war ?
I am sorry your in denial. . . if anything they pose a bigger threat to Europe cause they are already there!!! Can anyone say "Black September". . .they already have sleeper cells in almost every major European city.B.Schuss wrote:
Again, steve, how about answering my question ? I reckognize the threat terrorists ( of all backgrounds, btw, not just islamic ) pose to my personal safety, but not on a national level. They can explode car bombs, or send suicide bombers into our cities, but what are they going to achieve, I ask you ? We have been dealing with terrorists groups ( RAF, ETA, IRA ) for decades in europe, and none of them has ever had the potential to attack a nation. The islamics are no different.fadedsteve wrote:
I am not paranoid at all, I just see the writing on the wall. . .B.Schuss wrote:
oh, please... another US guy who believes that there is some big-time international muslim conspiracy to overthrow western nations. None of the muslims I know gives a damn about islamic extremists.
They are mostly totally westernized themselves, and way too happy to even be bothered to get on the streets and demonstrate.
And even if a large enough number of them could be mobilized ( and lord knows that is about as likely as Britney Spears running for President ), what would they do ? Storm the Parliament ? Overthrow the government ? With their bare hands ? come on..
They'd need weapons, tanks, airplanes, choppers, where is that going to come from ?
Seriously, Steve, that's Paranoia, plain and simple.
The few ( and they are very few ) islamic extremists that boast such rethoric are closely monitored by federal police and anti-terrorist agencies over here in europe. Just like their neo-nazi counterparts, by the way.
The riots in France last year were un-organized and had serious social reasons, not some form of islamistic background. Those kids started throwing rocks and set busses on fire because they are unemployed, live in shitty conditions and have no future whatsoever.
Am I afraid of the muslim population here in germany ? Hell no. I actually think I am more likely to have my face smashed in by a white guy in a bar fight for no reason than have a german muslim attack me for religious reasons.
Europe saw all the nationalistic Nazi things that went on in your country for YEARS and said "Oh that Hitler guy is full of it, he wont do anything drastic, he is just a short guy with a gay mustache.". . .they are eating their words now arent they! Europe has a way of blowing things off. . . .and waiting UNTIL they spiral out of control to act.
Bottom line is how can you be so cavalier about them (muslims in europe) either?. . .what makes you think they wont attack Germany? What makes you think they flat out wont re-attack Spain or Italy etc.
Those riots in France started out small and lasted for days!! It was a problem for the French police to control!! They (muslim students) started shit, and it spiraled out of control. Imagine what a sphoisticated terrorist network operating in Europe could/continue to do???
Look, the bottom line is this threat IS REAL, this is not a uptopian society in which we all live in! These radicals want to kill people as evident in the various attacks over the past few years. My question is why have an attitude of indignation towards the USA, when all we are trying to do stop global terrorism. Why not join the team and come in for the big win. . . . This starts by iradicating radical Islam from within before it EVENTUALLY spirals into a larger problem all across Europe.
Your comparison to Nazi Germany is flawed. Nazi Germany was a whole nation in the heart of europe, militarized, industrialized, organized, well-motivated.
Islamic extremists, on the other hand, are a tiny minority. They don't have the numbers, nor the equipment to pose a treat to any of the european nations. Moreover, they don't have the support of their communities.
They are isolated, and all they can possibly do is blow up a bus or train here and there.
And as terrible as this might be, it will not bring any european country down..
Spain is still there, Britain is still there, France is still there. Hell, The US is still there, more than 5 years after 09/11.
Those people are criminals, and our law enforcement agencies are after them. Why do you have so little trust ? What are you so afraid of ?
What do you expect us to do ? Turn Germany once again into a fascist police state, for a little more "security" ? No. That would mean sacrificing everything we claim to fight for.
There is no 100% security, no 100% control. That's the price we pay for living in an open, free society.
You state they dont have the weapons or the equipment etc. etc.. . . couldnt be farther from the truth! They are well funded(see Hezbollah), well armed, are motivated, and are in active pursuit of aquiring a nuclear bomb(s).
I just love my way of life and my country, and when 9/11 happened, some people forgot, I have not. . .
I refuse to give these people the benefit of the doubt, nor do I have any compassion for their cause whatsoever. . . Regardless if my country deals with Israel or not, or has supported Saddam in the past, thats exactly what it is, is the past. . .
I know that a terrorist group can't take out an entire nation, but they sure can disrupt the shit out of it! I mean what didnt you learn about how the world was affected after 9/11??
In regards to the Nazi's, they were not popular when they first came out as a radical political party. You of all people should know that! They gradually worked themselves onto the German public, and WHAALAA they became the heads of state over a period of time. . .This is what I am talking about, the Taliban did it in Afghanistan and the Mullahs did it in Iran! The comparison IS THERE and is a valid one!
Today's world is a more dangerous one than in 01' and if you cant see that, then I guess I have nothing else to say to you. . . I am also not saying you need to go back to putting people in internment camps either, thats not necessary! Its recognizing that WE ARE IN FACT AT WAR!!!
And by an large Europe doesnt think terrorism is a threat to them nor do they think radical Islam is at war with them(which is false, as you guys are the "little" Satan). . .as evidenced by your continued retort(s) to my posts. You have a very typical European attitude to our policies which is okay. . .
At least we are able to voice these opinions, under strict Sharia law these forums would be illegal btw. . .
I am not paranoid, I dont have stock piles of weapons and MRE's hidden in my apt waiting for an "imminent" attack. . .Nor do I have water bottles to last me 6 months either, I just havent forgotten how we got to this point in time, nor do I plan to support pacifism and concessions to appease the militants into "not attacking us". Its just a wrong policy that has been implemented for years not only in this country but in Europe as well, and its simply a failed from of appeasement.
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-01-19 01:55:10)
Fadedsteve's completely OTT 'apocalypse is coming' rants are rather hilarious, misguided and show him to be a very insular person indeed. Exaggeration and pant-wetting FTW! His completely inappropriate historical analogies are particularly misguided.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-01-19 01:55:21)
Dude you live in fucking Ireland. . . . aka A bunch of pale white fuckers getting drunk with bad tempers flarring!!! Not too mention getting rained on constantly!! I mean what else is there to say, other than Ireland is insignificant as far as world politics are concerned.CameronPoe wrote:
Fadedsteve's completely OTT 'apocalypse is coming' rants are rather hilarious, misguided and show him to be a very insular person indeed. Exaggeration and pant-wetting FTW! His completely inappropriate historical analogies are particularly misguided.
I mean you guys still dont have your freedom from the English. . .Sounds like you have some home house cleaning to attend to before you start taking the USA's inventory on world affairs.
I AM ALSO IRISH TOO!! Grandma's from Galway! Dont get me wrong Ireland is a gorgeous beautiful awesome awe inspiring country, but as far as world politics. . . You can rant all you want about me and my country, but you live in a bubble dude. . .
BTW I have never said the world is going to end anytime soon. . .if anything global warming will kill us before some diaper heads bombs will!!
also. . .how are my historical analogies innappropriate and misguided? on what ground. . . btw do you have a minor or major in history?? You seem to major in liberal spin in my opinion. . .
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-01-19 02:05:31)
Wow, you are such the quientessential American. +1 for the comedy value.fadedsteve wrote:
Dude you live in fucking Ireland. . . . aka A bunch of pale white fuckers getting drunk with bad tempers flarring!!! Not too mention getting rained on constantly!! I mean what else is there to say, other than Ireland is insignificant as far as world politics are concerned.CameronPoe wrote:
Fadedsteve's completely OTT 'apocalypse is coming' rants are rather hilarious, misguided and show him to be a very insular person indeed. Exaggeration and pant-wetting FTW! His completely inappropriate historical analogies are particularly misguided.
I mean you guys still dont have your freedom from the English. . .Sounds like you have some home house cleaning to attend to before you start taking the USA's inventory on world affairs.
I AM ALSO IRISH TOO!! Grandma's from Galway! Dont get me wrong Ireland is a gorgeous beautiful awesome awe inspiring country, but as far as world politics. . . You can rant all you want about me and my country, but you live in a bubble dude. . .
BTW I have never said the world is going to end anytime soon. . .if anything global warming will kill us before some diaper heads bombs will!!
GG Attacking the guys weather and social stereotype great way to make your point on terrorismfadedsteve wrote:
Dude you live in fucking Ireland. . . . aka A bunch of pale white fuckers getting drunk with bad tempers flarring!!! Not too mention getting rained on constantly!! I mean what else is there to say, other than Ireland is insignificant as far as world politics are concerned.CameronPoe wrote:
Fadedsteve's completely OTT 'apocalypse is coming' rants are rather hilarious, misguided and show him to be a very insular person indeed. Exaggeration and pant-wetting FTW! His completely inappropriate historical analogies are particularly misguided.
I mean you guys still dont have your freedom from the English. . .Sounds like you have some home house cleaning to attend to before you start taking the USA's inventory on world affairs.
I AM ALSO IRISH TOO!! Grandma's from Galway! Dont get me wrong Ireland is a gorgeous beautiful awesome awe inspiring country, but as far as world politics. . . You can rant all you want about me and my country, but you live in a bubble dude. . .
It's already been mentioned on there's forums that not all of Ireland want the English out same as not all Muslims are radical.
You've seen the long and painful process to sort out the mess the uk made hundreds of years ago by invading Ireland and you want us to start Another war on terrorism?? No thanks bud. Ira have laid down their guns by negations the guys who did the London bombing were arrested. I have a bit more faith in my security services than you seem to. Sending bullets back and forth will never achieve peace but negotiation can.
Last edited by crimson_grunt (2007-01-19 02:31:15)
Cheers for the absolutely unrepetently blatant racist comments. I happen to live in the Republic of Ireland whose only association with the UK is that we are both in the EU. It's an independent sovereign nation with a Uachtaráin (President), not a queen. You might want to read up on your 'ancestral' homeland.fadedsteve wrote:
Dude you live in fucking Ireland. . . . aka A bunch of pale white fuckers getting drunk with bad tempers flarring!!! Not too mention getting rained on constantly!! I mean what else is there to say, other than Ireland is insignificant as far as world politics are concerned.
I mean you guys still dont have your freedom from the English. . .Sounds like you have some home house cleaning to attend to before you start taking the USA's inventory on world affairs.
I AM ALSO IRISH TOO!! Grandma's from Galway! Dont get me wrong Ireland is a gorgeous beautiful awesome awe inspiring country, but as far as world politics. . . You can rant all you want about me and my country, but you live in a bubble dude. . .
BTW I have never said the world is going to end anytime soon. . .if anything global warming will kill us before some diaper heads bombs will!!
also. . .how are my historical analogies innappropriate and misguided? on what ground. . . btw do you have a minor or major in history?? You seem to major in liberal spin in my opinion. . .
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-01-19 02:55:31)
lol been read fadedsteve's posts and wow... he is one delusional person.
Ok, just to clarify. Is there anyone at all in Europe that thinks Europe has a `Muslim Problem`?
It's nice to know that many Americans care so much about our safety and well being, but those of us on the front line against this `problem` can happily report that everything's fine. There's a few extremist nutters out there but there's always a few extremist nutters out there. Out law enforcement people are looking into it and apparently it turns out that most Muslims in Europe don't in fact want to blow themselves up. The tiny minority that do are being monitored.
It's nice to know that many Americans care so much about our safety and well being, but those of us on the front line against this `problem` can happily report that everything's fine. There's a few extremist nutters out there but there's always a few extremist nutters out there. Out law enforcement people are looking into it and apparently it turns out that most Muslims in Europe don't in fact want to blow themselves up. The tiny minority that do are being monitored.
You cannot compare political parties who get elected into power through regular elections to terrorists. Terrorists, by definition, do not take part in the political process of a nation, they fight it.fadedsteve wrote:
In regards to the Nazi's, they were not popular when they first came out as a radical political party. You of all people should know that! They gradually worked themselves onto the German public, and WHAALAA they became the heads of state over a period of time. . .This is what I am talking about, the Taliban did it in Afghanistan and the Mullahs did it in Iran! The comparison IS THERE and is a valid one!
And while the Taliban rule in Afghanistan may have been cruel and dictated by Sharia law, they never attacked another nation. Neither did the Iranians.
And considering the huge influence the US has executed on the interior affairs of both Afghanistan and Iran in recent history, it is becoming ever more obvious that the term "terrorist" is quite open to definition.
Some would even argue that the US itself engaged in terrorist activities back then.
Oh, believe me, we do realize the threat terrorism poses. We simply chose to fight it with different tactics than you. And looking at the "success" the war on terror in Iraq is enjoying, I think it is safe to say we are not off much worse than you, wouldn't you agree ?fadedsteve wrote:
And by an large Europe doesnt think terrorism is a threat to them nor do they think radical Islam is at war with them(which is false, as you guys are the "little" Satan). . .as evidenced by your continued retort(s) to my posts. You have a very typical European attitude to our policies which is okay. . .
Oh, alright, so we are now appeasing them, because we chose not to participate in the illegal invasion of Iraq ?fadedsteve wrote:
I am not paranoid, I dont have stock piles of weapons and MRE's hidden in my apt waiting for an "imminent" attack. . .Nor do I have water bottles to last me 6 months either, I just havent forgotten how we got to this point in time, nor do I plan to support pacifism and concessions to appease the militants into "not attacking us". Its just a wrong policy that has been implemented for years not only in this country but in Europe as well, and its simply a failed from of appeasement.
Again, we do what the laws of our nations will allow us to do, and we respect the guidelines set forth by the international community.
You have to remember that in the USA they dont trust anyone else to protect them. That is why they insist on having guns. Man it must suck being afraid every day of your life....:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:
Ok, just to clarify. Is there anyone at all in Europe that thinks Europe has a `Muslim Problem`?
It's nice to know that many Americans care so much about our safety and well being, but those of us on the front line against this `problem` can happily report that everything's fine. There's a few extremist nutters out there but there's always a few extremist nutters out there. Out law enforcement people are looking into it and apparently it turns out that most Muslims in Europe don't in fact want to blow themselves up. The tiny minority that do are being monitored.
I am not afraid of guns. What are you talking about? Just because you may be a pussy, don't assume I am.Vilham wrote:
You have to remember that in the USA they dont trust anyone else to protect them. That is why they insist on having guns. Man it must suck being afraid every day of your life...
I could be wrong but I don't think he's accusing Americans of being afraid of guns. I guess the point was Americans have guns because they feel you need them to protect yourself against something. Something they must therefore be afraid of....usmarine2007 wrote:
I am not afraid of guns. What are you talking about? Just because you may be a pussy, don't assume I am.Vilham wrote:
You have to remember that in the USA they dont trust anyone else to protect them. That is why they insist on having guns. Man it must suck being afraid every day of your life...