BF2S Forums The Demise of Ford?

Pug wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

well ford cars have lagged behind but they are picking back up but the ford has dominated the truck market especially with 3/4 tons and up for years    proud owner of a F150

Oh, don't get me wrong - Ford's not going bye bye.  They'll just close or sell off the parts of the business which aren't it's core.  I'm surprised it's taken them so long to be forced to refocus themselves.

well i think at 1 time they were thinking of putting land rover up for sale

Never liked Ford, Chevy fan myself. For trucks, Ford, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge build a good product with strong engines and transmissions.  Older Ford trucks seem to have engine issues more often than their older counterparts.  For cars, Dodge and Chrysler engines and transmissions are crap - new or old.  Ford is ok, but only keeps making parts for 5 years, GM makes parts for 10.  I’ve driven one Oldsmobile to 233K miles before I sold it and it was still running strong.  Only thing I ever did to is was replace the starter and radiator. My current Olds has 207K and has only small specks of rust on it. 

Why do our domestic manufacturers have trouble against Japanese car makers?  Ask the buyers why they like them.  I suspect they like Japanese cars because they trade in their cars often enough that nothing has time to wear out and cost them money for repairs.  Domestic vehicles require more regular maintenance, but it won’t cost you as much.  When something fails on a foreign car, you’re going to pay royally for the parts and even more for labor because stuff is so hard to get to.

If prefer GM products because I can take care of the maintenance myself at a fairly low cost for parts.  On my Chevy 4x4 you loosen a couple bolts, remove the cover, remove the old starter, slap in the new one, replace the connection, tighten the bolts and you’re done.  No jack or ramps required, just a ratchet and some extensions to reach the bolts.  Good luck fixing it yourself when something wears out with a foreign car . . . unless you’re a fully trained mechanic with your own garage.  Just to replace the starter on my friend’s Civic, they had to loosen the whole front axle.   It used to be that parts for foreign cars were more expensive, though if foreign car makers are producing parts in the US, that would effect the price.

Ford, Chrysler (before being bought), GM, whatever, every American company and every Industrial interest is being SOLD-OUT by the Government. . .

Industry, Technology, Jobs, etc cannot be maintained at the standards we expect as Americans when there is absolutely NO STRATEGIC GOAL for industry existing  within the Government. For the last 30 years - this system of Government has been in a state of complete and utter decay.

How is it a case of Ford vs Toyota? How was it case of the Steel Industry vs. a foreign National Co.? How is it that we developed LCD technology and originally produced 100% of the market - yet a technology we invented/pioneered is near 0% US production now.

It is a case of Ford vs. Japan, Inc.

Until this Government makes PROSPERITY, an actual & original American ideal, the NO. 1 Strategic Goal; for America and Americans. It will continue to resemble what it has devolved into - special interests vultures picking the scraps of a dying slumbering giant.

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6298463.stm

Ford made a loss of $12.7bn in 2006 alone!!!!! Holy fucking shit...

How has Ford - the pioneer of modern mass production techniques - gotten into such a dire situation while Japanese companies go from strength to strength? How does debt like that even get financed!?

Japan has also surged ahead with cleaner, more efficient cars too. Did Ford not see that the only country that will be buying oil-hungry emission-monsters would be USA (who don't sign up to any emissions legislation)? The rest of the world is emission-conscious and most modern nations have laws against using certain types of vehicles - will this be the death knell for Ford, who didn't really do enough forward-thinking with repsect to this issue?

For a split-second, I thought you were talking about an ex-President.

AchangelTyreal wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6298463.stm

Ford made a loss of $12.7bn in 2006 alone!!!!! Holy fucking shit...

How has Ford - the pioneer of modern mass production techniques - gotten into such a dire situation while Japanese companies go from strength to strength? How does debt like that even get financed!?

Japan has also surged ahead with cleaner, more efficient cars too. Did Ford not see that the only country that will be buying oil-hungry emission-monsters would be USA (who don't sign up to any emissions legislation)? The rest of the world is emission-conscious and most modern nations have laws against using certain types of vehicles - will this be the death knell for Ford, who didn't really do enough forward-thinking with repsect to this issue?

The rest of the world is emission concious?  Um..last I checked China had us beat in the pollution dept. by a LONG way.

China have MUCH stricter emissions standards than the US. The emissions standards in China are significantly higher than the proposed levels in California (which would have been introduced over 12 years anyway) that Ford and GM have been suing over.

The Chinese use the older EU standards, from a couple of years ago.

What sort of pollution do China create more of than the US? I can't of any. Their rate of increase is higher, but they've still got a lot of catching up to do.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-01-25 11:39:28)

Can't argue with the point about the Lions.  They suck. 

All US companies need to take some cues on design from other companies.  Cadillac and Pontiac are doing pretty good but that's about it.  Chevrolet is starting to improve in their cars, but I don't like the new truck design.  GMC looks better.

why did you post it 3 times ^^^^^^^^^^^^

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

why did you post it 3 times ^^^^^^^^^^^^

oops, internet fucked up, happnes every once and a while.

ok just making sure, I figured you were trying to push you're point big time

American Companies are not driven or run by the U.S. government.  They are driven by CEO's with golden parachutes, shareholders, customers and employees (and pretty much in that order).  No government belongs in any business unless you happen to be protected by the EU.

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6298463.stm

Ford made a loss of $12.7bn in 2006 alone!!!!! Holy fucking shit...

How has Ford - the pioneer of modern mass production techniques - gotten into such a dire situation while Japanese companies go from strength to strength? How does debt like that even get financed!?

Japan has also surged ahead with cleaner, more efficient cars too. Did Ford not see that the only country that will be buying oil-hungry emission-monsters would be USA (who don't sign up to any emissions legislation)? The rest of the world is emission-conscious and most modern nations have laws against using certain types of vehicles - will this be the death knell for Ford, who didn't really do enough forward-thinking with repsect to this issue?

Ford does suck.  The only thing good about Ford these days is Mazda (they own 33.4% of Mazda).

The problems with the American auto industry are that workers are heavily unionized, quality control is poor, and foreign markets put heavy tariffs on our vehicles overseas.  This last factor has less to do with Ford itself and more to do with protectionist bullshit coming from Japan and Europe.  The Japanese government and many European governments harm their consumers through needless protectionism in various markets like the auto industry.  If they had markets as free as ours (with regards to tariffs), they'd have a lot more choices in consumption, and they could buy foreign products at more affordable prices.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-01-25 16:49:20)

Most of the US car makers were good in the Muscle Car days.  69 Camaro, 70 Cuda, or 70 Chevelle SS 454 anyone?  Those are some big cubes, baby.

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6298463.stm

Ford made a loss of $12.7bn in 2006 alone!!!!! Holy fucking shit...

How has Ford - the pioneer of modern mass production techniques - gotten into such a dire situation while Japanese companies go from strength to strength? How does debt like that even get financed!?

Japan has also surged ahead with cleaner, more efficient cars too. Did Ford not see that the only country that will be buying oil-hungry emission-monsters would be USA (who don't sign up to any emissions legislation)? The rest of the world is emission-conscious and most modern nations have laws against using certain types of vehicles - will this be the death knell for Ford, who didn't really do enough forward-thinking with repsect to this issue?

There are two reasons ford is doing poorly. Pension agreements they never had a hope of supporting, and the UAW. The UAW is not inherently detrimental, but negotiations have been abused to create trust-like restrictions on competition between the big three. As long as the UAW exists in its current state the big three will continue to flounder under self-imposed non-competition restrictions which foreign auto-makers are exempt from. Plus the only intelligent Ford was Henry.