Without stats bf2 would have been dead long ago
Poll
Do stats ruin BF2?
| Yes | 32% | 32% - 90 | ||||
| No | 67% | 67% - 191 | ||||
| Total: 281 | ||||||
I think most of the OP's points are pretty valid.
Stats have lead to stat-padding and the whoring of various weapons and vehicles.
But, this isn't anything new. All of these problems are present in other FPS games, to some extent. Spawn-raping happened in Wolfenstein and Doom, and every other game since. Weapon-whoring really came into it with the arrival of Counterstrike and the infamous AWP-whore.
BF2's stats may have exacerbated the problems, I guess. But, I disagree with the notion that stats have ruined the game. The main arguement against that is that they've kept the game alive.
The stats kept by the game keep casual players coming back for more. That means that the ranked servers keep active, which means that EA keeps making money, which means that they kept supporting the game with updates, expansions and so on (although, admittedly with the release of 2142 that's slowed down a lot). Without stats a lot of casual players would have simply given up. There'd be far fewer servers, and far less choice of game every time you load it up.
I like my stats, they show me how I'm progressing as a player. I don't play often enough to really hunt down the top awards. I don't go into a game desperate to push my score up, rather I look at them afterwards and see how I did.
As for your other points;
You're totally right about stats not reflecting skill. The best players are the top league players, who rarely play on public servers. They're the hardcore clan players who work together like a machine, and are each individaully amazing as well. Similarly, someone who spends all their time in a tank or helo will rack up a great stat line, but that doesn't mean they're better than the guy who spends most of his time on foot, but happens to have slightly lower K/D ratio or SPM.
The reason K-P servers are "so bad" is because people who rack up huge scores and are awarded hard to get badges do so much more easily than what those scores and awards normally mean. It's a hell of a lot harder get 18 pistol kills in a round when everyone else has a much bigger gun to shoot back with. Lots of regular KP players say it's fun and so on, so why aren't they playing on unranked KP servers?
As for the team aspect, I'm not convinced there'd be all that much more even without the stats. I remember playing DC maps where the Apache or Hind was circle-strafing spawning infantry in an uncap while their team were losing flags left, right and centre. Sure, no-one was keeping track of scores, but to the people that personal scores mattered to, being at the top of the list when the round ended was all that mattered.
Stats have indeed probably exacerbated some of the problems that BF2 shares with other online FPS games, but in the long run, I think they've done a lot more good for the game than harm.
Stats have lead to stat-padding and the whoring of various weapons and vehicles.
But, this isn't anything new. All of these problems are present in other FPS games, to some extent. Spawn-raping happened in Wolfenstein and Doom, and every other game since. Weapon-whoring really came into it with the arrival of Counterstrike and the infamous AWP-whore.
BF2's stats may have exacerbated the problems, I guess. But, I disagree with the notion that stats have ruined the game. The main arguement against that is that they've kept the game alive.
The stats kept by the game keep casual players coming back for more. That means that the ranked servers keep active, which means that EA keeps making money, which means that they kept supporting the game with updates, expansions and so on (although, admittedly with the release of 2142 that's slowed down a lot). Without stats a lot of casual players would have simply given up. There'd be far fewer servers, and far less choice of game every time you load it up.
I like my stats, they show me how I'm progressing as a player. I don't play often enough to really hunt down the top awards. I don't go into a game desperate to push my score up, rather I look at them afterwards and see how I did.
As for your other points;
You're totally right about stats not reflecting skill. The best players are the top league players, who rarely play on public servers. They're the hardcore clan players who work together like a machine, and are each individaully amazing as well. Similarly, someone who spends all their time in a tank or helo will rack up a great stat line, but that doesn't mean they're better than the guy who spends most of his time on foot, but happens to have slightly lower K/D ratio or SPM.
The reason K-P servers are "so bad" is because people who rack up huge scores and are awarded hard to get badges do so much more easily than what those scores and awards normally mean. It's a hell of a lot harder get 18 pistol kills in a round when everyone else has a much bigger gun to shoot back with. Lots of regular KP players say it's fun and so on, so why aren't they playing on unranked KP servers?
As for the team aspect, I'm not convinced there'd be all that much more even without the stats. I remember playing DC maps where the Apache or Hind was circle-strafing spawning infantry in an uncap while their team were losing flags left, right and centre. Sure, no-one was keeping track of scores, but to the people that personal scores mattered to, being at the top of the list when the round ended was all that mattered.
Stats have indeed probably exacerbated some of the problems that BF2 shares with other online FPS games, but in the long run, I think they've done a lot more good for the game than harm.
You say stats ruined the mod community. But without stats there would be very little community anyway. seing as stats is what keeps half the nub cakes out there playing
NO they add to it, keep the game alive longer
In my counter-strike days, I cant ever recall getting in any server where there was any teamwork going on; and we had no stats there. We just ran around willy-nilly trying to kill people, much like this game. While stats don't necessarily encourage teamwork, with our without them, it really wouldn't matter.-[Silver.Inc* wrote:
Stats ruin the 'team' aspect of BF2'
Very rarely do you see a squad working together well. Instead of capping a flag, people want to sit behind the known spawn point and set up camp on the people who are about to spawn. The game is supposed to be about winning the round, not who gets the best KDR.
Sadly though there is nowhere near enough competitive leagues in Australia for BF2. We have only 1 league, 10v10 which is 1 match per week..cat. wrote:
I dont know if you like competitive gaming but stats dont mean jack there and it has all the above you want in bf2.
It works in both ways the stat thing, yes there are cheap spawn killers and stuff from stats but then again people have some incentive to give me ammo and stuff. Also even on wake airshow unranked people still rape the carrier.
I definitely agree with you on this one. I don't care much for vehicles, so I don't mind tank whores, I have Wake, so I don't care for Jet whores, and I'm not that bothered by having my scope filled up with a massive pixellated e- penis. What stats are responsible for is this:
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*And so on until the end of time...
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*BLAM*
*"Clear!! Alright, you're good to go!"
*And so on until the end of time...
Stats don't ruin BF2, lame players ruin BF2. I like stats because they show me how I've improved over time, tell me how much of my life I've wasted playing this game, and give me goals to aim for. I would NEVER have played Sniper were it not for the damn badge I needed. And then, I discovered that I actually liked playing sniper. Now it's my most-used kit.
What shits me are medics who shoot me then heal me, just to get a damn badge. Yeh, gee, thanks. What shits me are support players whose ammo bag only comes out when THEY have run out of ammo. Yeh, gee, thanks. Similar with any type of vehicle whore. Give the rest of us a go, FFS! Teamkillers suck, especially if they do it to get inside their precious plane/chopper/tank/whatever. Fair go, fellas!
Max
What shits me are medics who shoot me then heal me, just to get a damn badge. Yeh, gee, thanks. What shits me are support players whose ammo bag only comes out when THEY have run out of ammo. Yeh, gee, thanks. Similar with any type of vehicle whore. Give the rest of us a go, FFS! Teamkillers suck, especially if they do it to get inside their precious plane/chopper/tank/whatever. Fair go, fellas!
Max
Short answer no
I would rather say it´s the opposite it can be fun to see those graphs at times if your pushing the right diection etc, and stats attract more players. more players = more servers and more fun.
Statpadding i mean almst noone cares it does not affect me if someone wants do that the only one i´m "really" competing against is myself.
I would rather say it´s the opposite it can be fun to see those graphs at times if your pushing the right diection etc, and stats attract more players. more players = more servers and more fun.
Statpadding i mean almst noone cares it does not affect me if someone wants do that the only one i´m "really" competing against is myself.
So what? Nobody but yourself care about how many k/p kills you have, why would you care how many other players have or how they got them? I never play k/p and only pull my pistol if I have to leave the computer to take a shit or waiting for a jet, but if other people play k/p i think it`s none of my business...mKmalfunction wrote:
I think K&P servers are lame 'cos it's a cheap way to get easy knife and pistol kills. I've got around 1300 knife kills, all legit.-[Silver.Inc* wrote:
Knife and Pistol servers, whats so bad about them?
Why the fuck does EA not allow them? They are fun (atleast for 1-2 rounds, then they get stale). People get high scores in them, what the fuck does it matter, they are just measly little numbers. People should be able to have fun on them, rather than knowing the server will probably be closed down in a week because EA. god of all gods, told them to.
Last edited by Fredrik (2007-02-27 21:37:15)
OMG THAT WAS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF HIS POSTmKmalfunction wrote:
I think K&P servers are lame 'cos it's a cheap way to get easy knife and pistol kills. I've got around 1300 knife kills, all legit.-[Silver.Inc* wrote:
Knife and Pistol servers, whats so bad about them?
Why the fuck does EA not allow them? They are fun (atleast for 1-2 rounds, then they get stale). People get high scores in them, what the fuck does it matter, they are just measly little numbers. People should be able to have fun on them, rather than knowing the server will probably be closed down in a week because EA. god of all gods, told them to.
IF YOU DIDNT HAVE STATS, IT WOULDNT BE A CHEAP WAY TO GET KNIFE KILLS BECAUSE THEY WOULDNT RECORD.
And K&P servers would be a fun change i could imagine.
Oh, and wag the e-penis much? I have 2500 shock paddle/knife kills combined, just to establish the fact i am better then you.
Last edited by gene_pool (2007-02-27 21:59:35)
HAHAHAH hahaha ha....
someone in [ib] talking about inflated stats...
Ok, anti leet clan rant aside I think it can be safely said bf2 wouldnt be bf2 without the stats. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing varies.
Example 1: Last year my goal in bf2 was to get a kdr of over 1 in all kits. How did I do this? by learning the weapons and ins and outs of each one, and not really using vehicles much. This year I want a kdr of voer one with shock paddles and the AT/AA weapons. Ie Stats give people something to work towards in their gaming, to give it a direction
Example 2: The bad example. Spawn Raping, Carrier Raping, Armour Whoring (whoring defined here as "Im going to sit just outside the cap point for this base and shoot you as you spawn" mentality), Prone Diving, Nade Spamming... all that stuff that ruins the game for other people. Im not saying dont use jets, choppers, or armour, I'm saying that if you ONLY go in armour with the ONLY purpose being to amass as many points as possible ROUND AFTER FREAKING ROUND, MATCH AFTER FREAKING MATCH, MONTH AFTER FREAKING MONTH, then it really has stopped ebing a game for you and has started being a job...
(YES, nothing pisses me off more than seeing something along the lines of a sniper ranked in the top 100 in the world who has only 200 kills with the sniper rifle, and 123423531454325 kills in armour or a jet)
Check my stats if you think im being a hypocrit:
http://bf2s.com/player/47529679/
someone in [ib] talking about inflated stats...
Ok, anti leet clan rant aside I think it can be safely said bf2 wouldnt be bf2 without the stats. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing varies.
Example 1: Last year my goal in bf2 was to get a kdr of over 1 in all kits. How did I do this? by learning the weapons and ins and outs of each one, and not really using vehicles much. This year I want a kdr of voer one with shock paddles and the AT/AA weapons. Ie Stats give people something to work towards in their gaming, to give it a direction
Example 2: The bad example. Spawn Raping, Carrier Raping, Armour Whoring (whoring defined here as "Im going to sit just outside the cap point for this base and shoot you as you spawn" mentality), Prone Diving, Nade Spamming... all that stuff that ruins the game for other people. Im not saying dont use jets, choppers, or armour, I'm saying that if you ONLY go in armour with the ONLY purpose being to amass as many points as possible ROUND AFTER FREAKING ROUND, MATCH AFTER FREAKING MATCH, MONTH AFTER FREAKING MONTH, then it really has stopped ebing a game for you and has started being a job...
(YES, nothing pisses me off more than seeing something along the lines of a sniper ranked in the top 100 in the world who has only 200 kills with the sniper rifle, and 123423531454325 kills in armour or a jet)
Check my stats if you think im being a hypocrit:
http://bf2s.com/player/47529679/
Last edited by SharkyMcshark (2007-02-27 22:14:13)
Stats do not ruin the game, stat whores do
and here we have the token excellent rebuttal to the whole thread. i wish it had been me.MrE`158 wrote:
I think most of the OP's points are pretty valid.
Stats have lead to stat-padding and the whoring of various weapons and vehicles.
But, this isn't anything new. All of these problems are present in other FPS games, to some extent. Spawn-raping happened in Wolfenstein and Doom, and every other game since. Weapon-whoring really came into it with the arrival of Counterstrike and the infamous AWP-whore.
BF2's stats may have exacerbated the problems, I guess. But, I disagree with the notion that stats have ruined the game. The main arguement against that is that they've kept the game alive.
The stats kept by the game keep casual players coming back for more. That means that the ranked servers keep active, which means that EA keeps making money, which means that they kept supporting the game with updates, expansions and so on (although, admittedly with the release of 2142 that's slowed down a lot). Without stats a lot of casual players would have simply given up. There'd be far fewer servers, and far less choice of game every time you load it up.
I like my stats, they show me how I'm progressing as a player. I don't play often enough to really hunt down the top awards. I don't go into a game desperate to push my score up, rather I look at them afterwards and see how I did.
As for your other points;
You're totally right about stats not reflecting skill. The best players are the top league players, who rarely play on public servers. They're the hardcore clan players who work together like a machine, and are each individaully amazing as well. Similarly, someone who spends all their time in a tank or helo will rack up a great stat line, but that doesn't mean they're better than the guy who spends most of his time on foot, but happens to have slightly lower K/D ratio or SPM.
The reason K-P servers are "so bad" is because people who rack up huge scores and are awarded hard to get badges do so much more easily than what those scores and awards normally mean. It's a hell of a lot harder get 18 pistol kills in a round when everyone else has a much bigger gun to shoot back with. Lots of regular KP players say it's fun and so on, so why aren't they playing on unranked KP servers?
As for the team aspect, I'm not convinced there'd be all that much more even without the stats. I remember playing DC maps where the Apache or Hind was circle-strafing spawning infantry in an uncap while their team were losing flags left, right and centre. Sure, no-one was keeping track of scores, but to the people that personal scores mattered to, being at the top of the list when the round ended was all that mattered.
Stats have indeed probably exacerbated some of the problems that BF2 shares with other online FPS games, but in the long run, I think they've done a lot more good for the game than harm.
Without stats i would have played F.E.A.R. and some other games, which are standing in the corner of my room waiting for me
meh. the stats show my improvements which i like. also the stats thing allows you to see how far you are with your unlocks and rewards, which are fun to get
i think its good the game has the stats added, because other players would have stopped long ago, including me i think.
i think its good the game has the stats added, because other players would have stopped long ago, including me i think.
Bf2 is fun with the stat system, without it a lot of people would leave the game, not fun.
Less retards and less players is pretty ok imho and the quality of players raises pretty much, you wouldn't see newbs like THE#LORD#OF#WEED or similar playing styles around anymore.ssonrats wrote:
Bf2 is fun with the stat system, without it a lot of people would leave the game, not fun.
Last edited by fierce (2007-02-28 03:50:52)
HAHAHAHAHA . You've spent over 200 hours as a medic whore, and over 120 hours as a sniper, with 80 hours in a chopper. GO FIGURE!!!!SharkyMcshark wrote:
(YES, nothing pisses me off more than seeing something along the lines of a sniper ranked in the top 100 in the world who has only 200 kills with the sniper rifle, and 123423531454325 kills in armour or a jet)
Check my stats if you think im being a hypocrit:
http://bf2s.com/player/47529679/
I wouldn't say that stats ruin BF2, but they sure do add another incentive that other like WEED take to a radical level. I love knives and pistols because they take more skill than a headshot from an AK-101 or other variant.
Do I do it for the stats?
-Hell no, I just love going stabby stabby on your ass.
Do stats make me play knives only more frequently?
-Sometimes if the original game gets tasteless and boring.
Do I care about stats?
-I only care to getting to sergeant major so I can have all of the unlocks. After that, stats are useless to me (although I'll still try to keep them decent)
Do I do it for the stats?
-Hell no, I just love going stabby stabby on your ass.
Do stats make me play knives only more frequently?
-Sometimes if the original game gets tasteless and boring.
Do I care about stats?
-I only care to getting to sergeant major so I can have all of the unlocks. After that, stats are useless to me (although I'll still try to keep them decent)
I dont think stats ruin BF2 at all. I think they give the game a reason to keep going back to it and it gives you goals and objectives to strive for. Naturally not everyone is going to care for stats, and thats fine, its not vital to care about them. But for those that like stats etc then its perfect. BF2 is a semi-RPG in a way.
Stats = good incentive (for some).
Stats = good incentive (for some).
THEY ARE JUST NUMBERS IF THEY WANT TO STAT PAD LET THEM.Djbrown wrote:
silver normally your posts are right on, But everytime i see you your on IO. and IO is nothing but stat padding. you know just as well as i do the only reason IO is so rediculously popular is because EVERYONE gets inflated k/d's and SPM's cause of the endless medics and nade spam.
I find your post extremely hypocrytical. I know some people prefer IO (no jet/tank raping etc), but if you wanna play IO your far better off getting a real fps for it, bf2 IO is crap.
stats are one of the best aspects of bf2, adds endless replay value and goals to achieve
Oh and point 5 about spawn camping. DONT PLAY KARKAND. go play a real level like kubra or fushe pass
Stats for me add to the game & give me things to aim for. The game is valid without them but I would get feed up with the lack of team play and don't think I would have the number of hours I do with out stats and Awards.
I like playing Star Wars battlefront II but I never play it now as there is no real need to I got to a point where I always was in the top few players, at least battlefield is bigger and has better players in I do like getting the gold silver and bronze.
I like playing Star Wars battlefront II but I never play it now as there is no real need to I got to a point where I always was in the top few players, at least battlefield is bigger and has better players in I do like getting the gold silver and bronze.
They don't ruin it, they just forgot to implement 1 category: Fun and teamplay with your friends/clanmates:
I've played BF2 for about 2 hours today without talking to anybody in Ventrilo and I felt really bad. Couldn't enjoy anything, everything seemed so cold to me
I've played BF2 for about 2 hours today without talking to anybody in Ventrilo and I felt really bad. Couldn't enjoy anything, everything seemed so cold to me