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2007-04-11 17:29:49
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7094
one reason would be that the terrorist were always fellow citizens before (at least a lot).  people you might not have interacted with but never the less they were a part of the population.  always there.  here we come get rid of a lot of the bad people, they love us.  insurgency happens they lose a wife or a brother or whatever.  sure they hate the bombers.  sure they love freedom.  but,  this wife or brother or whatever would still have a beating heart if America never came.  sure saddam would still be alive but my family will probably have had a better chance of being intact.  theyre gonna hate the insurgents,  they always had most likely one way or the other through a millenia of tribal/clan rivalry.  i wish i can speak on that place with more confidence but its been two years now since i was there. 

Arabs are SO VERY EXTREMELY family and community oriented.  shit, everybody in the ME is a distant cousin.  includling palestinians and jews.  so when they see bad hajis burying ied's 50 feet from his front yard, chances are hes not gonna say shit because, even though theres the risk of his family being harmed as collateral damage,  there is more of a risk  to his family if he reports it to the coalition forces by the AIF themselves (Anti-iraqi forces)

to sum up.  the average iraqi cares more about his family than Iraq because the family/clan/tribe structure is whats gonna be the deciding loyalty in the long wrong.   they would rather live as subjects than citizens, the average lowerclass haji over there at least.  subjects to the imam and to god.


i want to make it clear though.  i dont think this way about iraqis in general.  just the ones that quit going to school in the 4th grade.

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-04-11 17:33:39)

2007-04-11 17:52:10
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7094
something i just wanna reflect on

I was in FOB Gunslinger in Baghdad right in the heart of the Adahmiya district (bad area).  Gunslinger is one of the shittier fobs because there were no contractors there, just locals and soldiers and I think i saw some UK special forces there to sharing the fob with us.  not important.  anyways  the guy who gives haircuts is a cool sunni iraqi dude and we always had a good conversation, ya know small talk, whatever.   If you didnt have any money, he wouldnt charge you and when he did you made your price.  For the most part, my fellow soldiers would get a haircut and give him 5 bucks but you always had some dumb ass holes who never paid so i usually paid for the next mans cut to whenever i went. fuck man, back to the story


it jan 05.  elections were right around the corner and i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.
2007-04-11 17:59:57
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6805

CameronPoe wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

I am going to ask my dad if he felt Safer before December 7th 1941.

Add your own examples.
Hooray for diabolically poor and inappropriate analogies!!!! W00T!

a) Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan were clearly defined enemies, Islamic fundamentalists are not.

b) The attack by Japan on America was an almost totally unexpected surprise. The threat from Islamic Fundamentalists is known about, can be prevented through intelligence operations and most western nations know that an attack is inevitable - i.e., won't be a surprise.

c) One cannot defeat Islamic Fundamentalists like one might defeat Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany (i.e., by utterly crushing them militarily) because one cannot readily identify who the enemy is and because modern western society is extremely cosmopolitan now. One cannot select a country to 'defeat militarily' that would lead to Islamic Fundamentalism being crushed.

A policy of containment and root cause elimination is the only way. Realism ftw.
We didnt  " identify the enemy " we rubled his cities and turned every thing he had to soot from 17000 feet.

make Iran resemble berlin circa 45 ( about 2 weeks ) then see who wants to be friends.

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2007-04-11 18:00:27)

2007-04-11 18:08:11
san4
The Mas
+311|7139|NYC, a place to live

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

it jan 05.  elections were right around the corner and i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.
Unfortunately, I think the guy was right. Shiites are the majority so they're going to win any election. And the major Shiite groups receive funding from Iran and are led by people who spent a lot time in Iran. Iraq is going to be a close ally of Iran. It absolutely sucks, but there is no way to avoid it at this point.
2007-04-11 18:11:06
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7094

san4 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

it jan 05.  elections were right around the corner and i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.
Unfortunately, I think the guy was right. Shiites are the majority so they're going to win any election. And the major Shiite groups receive funding from Iran and are led by people who spent a lot time in Iran. Iraq is going to be a close ally of Iran. It absolutely sucks, but there is no way to avoid it at this point.
thats why i didnt say anything. but that attitude is what drove me nuts man.  with an attitude like that you dont deserve the right for your voice to be heard. know what i mean?
2007-04-11 18:25:16
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7102|USA
good insight into this, thanks Gunslinger.
2007-04-11 18:39:00
san4
The Mas
+311|7139|NYC, a place to live

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

san4 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

it jan 05.  elections were right around the corner and i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.
Unfortunately, I think the guy was right. Shiites are the majority so they're going to win any election. And the major Shiite groups receive funding from Iran and are led by people who spent a lot time in Iran. Iraq is going to be a close ally of Iran. It absolutely sucks, but there is no way to avoid it at this point.
thats why i didnt say anything. but that attitude is what drove me nuts man.  with an attitude like that you dont deserve the right for your voice to be heard. know what i mean?
I think I know what you mean. Saddam basically trained this guy to keep his mouth shut. And even before Saddam there was probably no history of ordinary people having any say. Democracy is an attitude, not just a political system.
2007-04-11 18:40:48
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7094

san4 wrote:

Democracy is an attitude, not just a political system.
quote of the year
2007-04-11 23:51:37
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7006
Cheers to Gunslinger OIF II for enlightening first hand tales from Iraq. Pretty much summed up what I assumed to be the case. Gunslinger adds serious value to this forum.

+1

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-11 23:58:18)

2007-04-12 17:22:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7102|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Cheers to Gunslinger OIF II for enlightening first hand tales from Iraq. Pretty much summed up what I assumed to be the case. Gunslinger adds serious value to this forum.

+1
Yup, I will let know my experiences as well, although I know it will not be anywhere near as interactive as Gunslinger's.

C'mon Cam......gimme a smile, just a little oneeeeee
2007-04-13 05:20:19
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7208|Argentina

CameronPoe wrote:

Cheers to Gunslinger OIF II for enlightening first hand tales from Iraq. Pretty much summed up what I assumed to be the case. Gunslinger adds serious value to this forum.

+1
2007-04-13 05:29:34
Joshykiller1
Member
+3|6676
Most people wasnt blowing them self up before US and England came to Afgan and Iraq. These people joined because they felt there country was getting taking over by us.

US and england is just another HITLER. Soon the whole of middle east will be controlled by US and England.

IF we didnt go there im saw there would of been less bombings around the world.

The only way to defeat these terrorists is to imploy people who know the same tackticts.

US and England troops are not trained to fight these type of people.

The best way to resovle if theres a CIVAL WAR IN IRAQ.

Think about this US and England troops went to war with Afgan to find Bin laden over the 9/11 attacks, then they went to Iraq and now soon we will be having a war wit Iran.

WHATS NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!
2007-04-14 08:57:48
Milk.org
Bringing Sexy Back
+270|7227|UK

Joshykiller1 wrote:

Most people wasnt blowing them self up before US and England came to Afgan and Iraq. These people joined because they felt there country was getting taking over by us.

US and england is just another HITLER. Soon the whole of middle east will be controlled by US and England.

IF we didnt go there im saw there would of been less bombings around the world.

The only way to defeat these terrorists is to imploy people who know the same tackticts.

US and England troops are not trained to fight these type of people.

The best way to resovle if theres a CIVAL WAR IN IRAQ.

Think about this US and England troops went to war with Afgan to find Bin laden over the 9/11 attacks, then they went to Iraq and now soon we will be having a war wit Iran.

WHATS NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi first off. Is English your first language? Because I've just trawled through most of your posts and there is a spell check for a reason.

Chuy in Forum Rules wrote:

Post in English, or as close as you can reasonably get. Spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization count.
Secondly it's the British Army, soldiers from the other countries in the UK didn't give their lives for you to call them English.

Finally all of your posts are anti-Muslim and you seem to be bringing nothing towards the debates except your prejudices, bad English and references to Hitler. I would suggest you stay away from the Debate & Serious Section you have only been here 2 days and you're already really annoying!

Some Examples.

Here.

joshykiller1 wrote:

As the world as it is do you think we need another hitler to sort it out.
Do we need a genercide against some MUSLIMS??
I often think about what would the world be like if hitler did rule the world or most of it.
Also here.

joshykiller1 wrote:

the muslims are the hitlers its time to do what they do and sort them out. Y should we sit here and do nothing.

Last edited by Milk.org (2007-04-14 09:03:27)

2007-04-14 11:32:26
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6805
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 9#p1342169

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

san4 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

it jan 05.  elections were right around the corner and i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.
Unfortunately, I think the guy was right. Shiites are the majority so they're going to win any election. And the major Shiite groups receive funding from Iran and are led by people who spent a lot time in Iran. Iraq is going to be a close ally of Iran. It absolutely sucks, but there is no way to avoid it at this point.
thats why i didnt say anything. but that attitude is what drove me nuts man.  with an attitude like that you dont deserve the right for your voice to be heard. know what i mean?
Its funny but without realizing it they all admitted it is freedom we have given these people.
Note the past tense. 

We didn't go there to steal oil or make fat cats richer or take the spotlight off some other scandal.

The thing all these " pro terror " children forget about when they are trashing America, is..

Who We are what we are trying to do,

Who they are and what they are trying to do,

and sadly, humorously, or ironically depending on your view

What will happen to Their lives if The terrorists win.

Another thing these lost children of communism do is simply forget about one half of the Islamic Muslim population, it seems Deliberately Dense, Obtuse or just plain deceitful? But being their age the foremost is probable, lack of contact.
2007-04-15 09:18:52
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6805

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i asked this cat "bet you cant wait for the elections"  i mean shit, these were the big elections everyone was talking about and theyre days away.  i would be fucking excited.  so he tells me "dude, fuck that"  (those are my words, thats pretty much the jist of what he said) and ofcourse im curious ya know, so i ask why and he pretty much explained to me how the elections are bullshit.  theyre there to serve the shiites who in turn are loyal only to Iran and the ayatohlah.  I just wanted to tell him how fucking wrong of an attitude he had and the only way to make change would be to step up or whatever, but i didnt.  I was shocked.  all this work up to this point and this dude aint even gonna vote.   not because of fear but because of stubbornness. and i had a feeling he echoed a majority of sunnis that he knew in baghdad. he was an average enough cat. it just goes to back up the point.  no political history.  no history of a voice being heard.  they dont know it so how could miss it.

CameronPoe wrote:

Cheers to Gunslinger OIF II for enlightening first hand tales from Iraq. Pretty much summed up what I assumed to be the case. Gunslinger adds serious value to this forum.

+1
He may not vote, maybe never, but what of the kids who are 13 14 15 16...22 right now? What will they make of this power they now have? ( Thanks to you Gunslinger ) They will grow up knowing nothing else and demand nothing less. Look at how long it took the 13 colonies to get its act together after we kicked the European Rule off us. Was it worth it ? we know the answer if they pretend they dont.

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2007-04-15 09:20:02)

2007-04-15 14:57:18
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7006

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

He may not vote, maybe never, but what of the kids who are 13 14 15 16...22 right now? What will they make of this power they now have? ( Thanks to you Gunslinger ) They will grow up knowing nothing else and demand nothing less. Look at how long it took the 13 colonies to get its act together after we kicked the European Rule off us. Was it worth it ? we know the answer if they pretend they dont.
Those kids will probably be in some Islamic prayer school right now learning the virtues of martyrdom. They will grow knowing nothing but chaos, anarchy and occupation. If they already have this 'freedom' then what the fuck are you still doing there, surely your job is complete...?

 

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