DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7082|Finland

Well I'll be damned! I'm finding myself in this section, posting a topic! Hell must have frozen over! Pardon the upcoming spelling and political title-errors.

Introduction
The newly elected parliament here in Finland have now managed to complete the distribution of minister posts among the winning parties. Some choices were good, others less than acceptable. So I started wondering: These people are often not qualified for their jobs. They're politicians. Ok, sometimes in every fourth leap year a position in the government is filled by a person that actually has credentials for the job (for my fellow Finns an example: Our previous Minister of Foreign affairs). Then again, if he represents a party that loses the next election, he loses his place in the government and someone not as qualified takes his place (Our current Minister of Foreign Affairs).

So, does representative democracy work?
Sure it does. People are getting exactly what they deserve. But is it effective? Do we have the right people for the job? Now I'm not saying this because my party (the Social Democrat Party) lost the election, and that we currently have a ”bourgeois” parliament/government. I've tried to keep my political stance out when thinking of the following idea. I've had the Finnish model in mind when forming this idea; mainly because that's the form of running a country that I know even slightly something of.

The Idea!
A common catchphrase today is that companies run the world. Well, why can't countries, or at least the peoples elected parliament be run like companies?

The Stockholders
Read: ”The people”. The people finance the companys/countrys activities. They have the final say in everything. In a representative democracy, this should be the case. But maybe we should give the stockholders more ”value for their input”.

The Board
Read: MP:s. A parliament is elected by the people, every 4 years. Nothing new there.

The Managers
Here's the catch.
Companies have their own managers for every single subsection of the companys activities. In a goverment, tasks are also divided by the same principle. You have your Minister of Defense, Finance, Internal Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Prime Minister etc. Now read the introduction again; do we have the right people as managers for our countries different tasks? The answer is: no. Our current ”Managers” are selected from amongst the politicians of the winning parties from the last election. These ”Managers” (read: Ministers) might change every four years. Often they have to learn their job from scratch. Of course, they all get their own staff (read: Ministries), who consist of experts in their own area.

How about this? The board would ”interview”/select the managers/ministers, not from among themselves, but from a group of experts who actually ”know their shit”, E.g. from the ministries. From these ”job applicants”, correct people would be chosen to do the job that politicians have done before. An expert in Social Sciences as a ”Minister of Social Matters” (or whachammacall it), a general as ”Minister of Defense”, an Economic ”guru” to run the financial matters, etc.. The managers would be chosen by votes from the parliament. And since the parliament is elected by the people, and the winning party has the most people in parliament, we would still have representative democracy. Yay!

The ”Managers” would take care of  ”everyday matters”, always under supervision of the peoples (stockholders) elected board (Members of Parliament). Bigger issues would be discussed in parliament (the board). If the ”hired staff/managers” would not succeed in their tasks, they would be replaced (in case a voting in parliament would lead to that), regardless of what part of the electorial season we would be. Also, if the tasks are performed well, the ”Minister/Manager” could hold his position for even 20+ years, regardless of which party is the ”winner” at different times. When votes for/against firing the ”Manager in question” would go e.g. 40/60, the ”Manager” would surely start doing his/her job much better.

In other words
Could the implementation of this idea effectivate the way countries are run? Would it decrease bureucracy in a way that decisions would be made faster and better? Would the ”experts” be able to do a better job than long time politicians who are members of the party that won the last election?

This idea IMHO can't be labeled as ”communist” ”liberal” ”republican” conservative” or anything else. It's.. ..well, just an idea that popped into my head. And no, I still haven't thought it through yet.

Discuss?

-Don-
I need around tree fiddy.
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7082|Finland

Where's Cam or ATG when you need them

Yes, this was a f**ng bump. Reason: The time this thread was created, none of the D&ST regulars were on.
Another possible reason for the lack of answers:

-Uninteresting
-Too much text
-I'm so right that no one can disagree
I need around tree fiddy.
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6968|Montucky
DonFck,

I'm sorry to say but that is too much verbiage for my small brain to comprehend at 03:41AM Mountain Standard Time. Perhaps I'll take a closer look come Friday, 4-20-07 or not.

Milk'n'Cookies


S3v3N
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6740|Éire
There was a good program on last night about the road to becoming Taoiseach (prime minister) in Ireland and all the various wheeling and dealing that goes on between departments and ministries. Your point about Ministers often being totally unqualified for their position rings true in this country although we do have a Nazi Minister for Justice whose background was in law.
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7082|Finland

Braddock wrote:

Your point about Ministers often being totally unqualified for their position rings true in this country although we do have a Nazi Minister for Justice whose background was in law.
Sometimes it turns out that the person holding a certain position actually has the credentials. Our previous Minister of Foreign Affairs (Erkki Tuomioja) is the son of a former ambassador, has studied in London and Geneva, speaks fluently 5 languages and is a Dr.Pol.Sc. and M.Sc.(econ). Our new Minister of Foreign Affairs (Ilkka Kanerva)on the other hand, got his masters degree in economics at 32 and that's about it. He speaks Finnish and fluent rally-english. Basically his CV consists of having gone to a lot of hockey games.

Hired professionals instead? Why not?
I need around tree fiddy.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6823|Kyiv, Ukraine
My god thats scary, I was piecing this exact same line of reasoning together in my head yesterday right after I made the post about "if Bush was a CEO and the USA was a corporation, he'd have been fired over the Iraq thing."  Should have posted it sooner.  In all, great idea and with a little refinement may actually be workable.  Empowering people by more than just a "vote" and instead making them feel like heavily invested shareholders means they would care a lot more when their leadership fucks up or is otherwise screwing them.
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7082|Finland

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

My god thats scary, I was piecing this exact same line of reasoning together in my head yesterday right after I made the post about "if Bush was a CEO and the USA was a corporation, he'd have been fired over the Iraq thing."  Should have posted it sooner.  In all, great idea and with a little refinement may actually be workable.  Empowering people by more than just a "vote" and instead making them feel like heavily invested shareholders means they would care a lot more when their leadership fucks up or is otherwise screwing them.
But you do realize who would ultimately make a "yay or nay" decision over such a dramatic change in the governing model? That's the part that sucks. Even if the idea would be revolutionary and working, it would never be accepted because the people in power wouldn't be too eager to give away that power.

Not without.. ..a coup d'État!
I need around tree fiddy.
BVC
Member
+325|7145
Plato did put forward the idea that, just as doctors are trained in medicine, so too should rulers of nations have appropriate training.
B-Scimitar
Defeating your warriors.
+116|6859|Espoo, Finland

DonFck wrote:

-I'm so right that no one can disagree
Someone is being quite self-confident.

The idea is great but implementing is impossible.
Of course, people with power want to keep everything under their control instead of using it for general benefits.
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6980|The lunar module

DonFck wrote:

This idea IMHO can't be labeled as ”communist” ”liberal” ”republican” conservative” or anything else. It's.. ..well, just an idea that popped into my head. And no, I still haven't thought it through yet.
There is a label for your idea, you technocrat in socialist's clothes.

Any votes for pornocracy?
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7082|Finland

apollo_fi wrote:

DonFck wrote:

This idea IMHO can't be labeled as ”communist” ”liberal” ”republican” conservative” or anything else. It's.. ..well, just an idea that popped into my head. And no, I still haven't thought it through yet.
There is a label for your idea, you technocrat in socialist's clothes.

Any votes for pornocracy?
Well slap me silly and call me Daisy! Technocracy! And I was already calling it "DonCracy"
Guess brilliant ideas are already named and well thought.

However, I don't mean complete technocracy, but with a "power to the people"-twist.

Applied Technocracy it is!


https://img408.imageshack.us/img408/816/ravepartyny8.jpg
Yes, I know that's not what it is
I need around tree fiddy.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6979|Global Command

DonFck wrote:

Where's Cam or ATG when you need them

Yes, this was a f**ng bump. Reason: The time this thread was created, none of the D&ST regulars were on.
Another possible reason for the lack of answers:

-Uninteresting
-Too much text
-I'm so right that no one can disagree
AtG is busy today, but your ideas seem sound.

Career politicians are what has the world stagnated.
+1

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