Ynow, perhaps military might is not the way to go with dealing with Middle Eastern countries. I think part of the problem stems from the OPEC oil cartel that essentially dictates to us oil prices. Now, growing up in a capitalist world, in a capitalist country, taught capitalist values, is anyone else surprised that OPEC is so ass-backwards with how things are done? Why the hell does OPEC, the supply, dictate to US, the consumers, the price of oil? Because we are disorganized. I think that to properly combat any problems in the Middle East, we need to cut off their leader's source of power, oil. If the West and East Asia unite to form a powerful buyer's cartel, we can essentially crush OPEC under a very powerful economic heel. By dictating to OPEC the price we are willing to pay for oil, we can cut off OPEC's income source. This would be to the direct benefit of all countries involved in the buyer's cartel, as socialist countries can introduce oil into the economy at a lower price, and better control it's fluctuation, and capitalist countries can simply sell the oil to market buyers at market price, the big difference here is that the net profit is going in our own country's coffers, and not some foreign country. Honestly, the price of oil is so high (About $65 a barrel), and yet it costs so little to actually produce (about $14 a barrel). It would take cooperation between the United States and the rest of the Western World, as well as the stronger countries in the eastern bloc, but honestly, with the rate of oil consumption, all we are doing is turning our enemies into economic juggernauts.
A good idea, but at the end of the day we still need oil, and they can always simply say "no" and turn off the tap. I think we need to develop alternative sources of fuel. Biodiesel is a good start.
I like the grease conversion kits for cars, pull into McDonald's to fill up ofcourse it takes 2 hours to filter it but hey it's free fuel.
Oh, of course, but in the meantime, we need to start dictating prices. Basically, either OPEC stops gouging, or the rest of the world boycotts them. We can survive long enough to show them who has the real power.Pubic wrote:
A good idea, but at the end of the day we still need oil, and they can always simply say "no" and turn off the tap. I think we need to develop alternative sources of fuel. Biodiesel is a good start.
^ Thats the thing. He who has the oil has the power, and OPEC has the oil. What if we say "we'll only pay this much" and OPEC says "No thanks, no oil for you"?
And with China getting fat and happy from the trade deficit and India getting fat and happy from outsourcing, OPEC can happily find a willing alternate customer any time. Any leadership in the US that has happily kissed OPEC's collective asses since its inception in the 70's are nothing more than traitors.
It would only be a short term solution anyway ...oil is running out my friend. Pubic is right, alternate forms of fuel are what's needed in the long term.
great Ideal, but our goverment is in bed with Opec, it's all about money&greed, hey look at bush and cheney there from Oil, hmmm
Oil is the second most commodity in the world. I'll have more later, I have a scrim on now
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Oh, please, the US isn't interested in true Capitalism. The World Bank and the..........other...........economic fund.......thingy prove this.
I really need to go to bed, for some reason I'm really tired today. I'm sure someone else knows the name of the other organisation I'm thinking of.........................
I really need to go to bed, for some reason I'm really tired today. I'm sure someone else knows the name of the other organisation I'm thinking of.........................
The IMF where they manipulate the national debt of third-world countries, making sweetheart deals with governments on repayments when western industry is allowed to rape them, and rolling 3rd world countries under crushing debt when they refuse to be raped.
Because demand for oil is inelastic, thus there is really little room to bargain or negotiate for prices. Under normal market conditions consumers would simple switch to a similar alternative or source (both are lacking) and the inflexibility in demand (which changes the market conditions) means consumers are locked into the current system.Elamdri wrote:
Ynow, perhaps military might is not the way to go with dealing with Middle Eastern countries. I think part of the problem stems from the OPEC oil cartel that essentially dictates to us oil prices. Now, growing up in a capitalist world, in a capitalist country, taught capitalist values, is anyone else surprised that OPEC is so ass-backwards with how things are done? Why the hell does OPEC, the supply, dictate to US, the consumers, the price of oil? Because we are disorganized. I think that to properly combat any problems in the Middle East, we need to cut off their leader's source of power, oil. If the West and East Asia unite to form a powerful buyer's cartel, we can essentially crush OPEC under a very powerful economic heel. By dictating to OPEC the price we are willing to pay for oil, we can cut off OPEC's income source. This would be to the direct benefit of all countries involved in the buyer's cartel, as socialist countries can introduce oil into the economy at a lower price, and better control it's fluctuation, and capitalist countries can simply sell the oil to market buyers at market price, the big difference here is that the net profit is going in our own country's coffers, and not some foreign country. Honestly, the price of oil is so high (About $65 a barrel), and yet it costs so little to actually produce (about $14 a barrel). It would take cooperation between the United States and the rest of the Western World, as well as the stronger countries in the eastern bloc, but honestly, with the rate of oil consumption, all we are doing is turning our enemies into economic juggernauts.
I predict that for most American consumers a fuel price of $4+/gal. is the upper limit of what will be paid for gas without a change in behaviour. We can see this already in California, where the high price of fuel (much higher than other American markets and edging towards $4/gal.) has already started a decline in consumption.
That's the one. International Monetary Fund.GorillaTicTacs wrote:
The IMF
With that solved, I'm gunna go beddy bies.
According to Bill Bradley's book (The new American story). Raising the EPA standard to 45 mpg would eliminate dependence on OPEC oil. I agree, take away their money and see what happens...
Last edited by GATOR591957 (2007-04-20 10:23:34)
If you wonder why OPEC can so freely make their prices, it's because we need the fuel. If the suits would fund more research into alternate fuels rather than certain debacles, we could say "Hey OPEC, blow us" and self-sustain our energy needs.
Alternative fuel will not become a viable option until Exxon already has the monopoly on it.
The other option would be just to take it!!!Masques wrote:
Because demand for oil is inelastic, thus there is really little room to bargain or negotiate for prices. Under normal market conditions consumers would simple switch to a similar alternative or source (both are lacking) and the inflexibility in demand (which changes the market conditions) means consumers are locked into the current system.Elamdri wrote:
Ynow, perhaps military might is not the way to go with dealing with Middle Eastern countries. I think part of the problem stems from the OPEC oil cartel that essentially dictates to us oil prices. Now, growing up in a capitalist world, in a capitalist country, taught capitalist values, is anyone else surprised that OPEC is so ass-backwards with how things are done? Why the hell does OPEC, the supply, dictate to US, the consumers, the price of oil? Because we are disorganized. I think that to properly combat any problems in the Middle East, we need to cut off their leader's source of power, oil. If the West and East Asia unite to form a powerful buyer's cartel, we can essentially crush OPEC under a very powerful economic heel. By dictating to OPEC the price we are willing to pay for oil, we can cut off OPEC's income source. This would be to the direct benefit of all countries involved in the buyer's cartel, as socialist countries can introduce oil into the economy at a lower price, and better control it's fluctuation, and capitalist countries can simply sell the oil to market buyers at market price, the big difference here is that the net profit is going in our own country's coffers, and not some foreign country. Honestly, the price of oil is so high (About $65 a barrel), and yet it costs so little to actually produce (about $14 a barrel). It would take cooperation between the United States and the rest of the Western World, as well as the stronger countries in the eastern bloc, but honestly, with the rate of oil consumption, all we are doing is turning our enemies into economic juggernauts.
I predict that for most American consumers a fuel price of $4+/gal. is the upper limit of what will be paid for gas without a change in behaviour. We can see this already in California, where the high price of fuel (much higher than other American markets and edging towards $4/gal.) has already started a decline in consumption.
Something to Ponder..
Big Oil and the Big O can't control the price of oil, even though OPEC really, really wants to. Oil prices are set by supply and demand in a global market.
Many people think OPEC controls oil prices, however, for at least three reasons:
Here's the catch: Any producer big enough to manipulate the market by slashing production can't benefit from the resulting higher price.
And any producer big enough to crash prices by increasing production will suffer from doing so.
If any country could control oil prices, it would be Saudi Arabia. This is why it can't.
People assume that if OPEC didn't exist, all major producers would open the spigot and produce oil at the maximum possible rate, which makes no sense whatever.
Oil producers behave exactly like producers in any other industry. When inventories are low and prices are high, they produce more. When inventories are high and prices are low, they produce less.
Nobody needs OPEC to tell them to do that.
Source
Also if you hadn't noticed
This forces the question, what if what we are being told by the Saudi's as far as reserves was not accurate? What if we only had a matter of a couple years to figure out alternatives? Everyones lives would change drastically.
Americans should be looking at this (coal to oil) seriously.
Big Oil and the Big O can't control the price of oil, even though OPEC really, really wants to. Oil prices are set by supply and demand in a global market.
Many people think OPEC controls oil prices, however, for at least three reasons:
- OPEC certainly acts like it sets the price of oil. It holds meetings and issues press releases and sets "quotas" for its members.
- Oil prices often go on bumping up and down like OPEC never existed.
- It's obvious that the world's biggest oil producers can increase price by curtailing production.
Here's the catch: Any producer big enough to manipulate the market by slashing production can't benefit from the resulting higher price.
And any producer big enough to crash prices by increasing production will suffer from doing so.
If any country could control oil prices, it would be Saudi Arabia. This is why it can't.
People assume that if OPEC didn't exist, all major producers would open the spigot and produce oil at the maximum possible rate, which makes no sense whatever.
Oil producers behave exactly like producers in any other industry. When inventories are low and prices are high, they produce more. When inventories are high and prices are low, they produce less.
Nobody needs OPEC to tell them to do that.
Source
Also if you hadn't noticed
This forces the question, what if what we are being told by the Saudi's as far as reserves was not accurate? What if we only had a matter of a couple years to figure out alternatives? Everyones lives would change drastically.
Americans should be looking at this (coal to oil) seriously.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
They can benefit from manipulating the price, though. Cut supply so prices go high and you may make the same amount of money, but you'll have to sell less stock to do it. This, in turn, will leave you with more stock to sell in the future; more money in the long term.