BF2S Forums Is Russia a Democracy?

oug wrote:

Sanjaya wrote:

I would not say Putin was communist except in the sense he was a Soviet. The Soviets, at least how I view them, are very much like the Chinese Communist Party. Not very communist. However, Putin probably longs for those authoritarian days, especially since he's in the position to play authoritarian.

I agree with that, only I don't think he's going for the authoritarian left. Right-wing authoritarianism is much more popular and acceptable these days...

No, I agree with you. Authoritarian left is much more difficult to pull off, usually ends up being authoritarian right anyway, and I don't think he's aiming for it.

oug wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

One key thing that separates strong democracies from weak democracies is that the latter use the police power of the state as a tool of the ruling party. Russian President Vladimir V. Putin doesn't mind throwing his enemies in jail or sending out the police to break up protests.

Show me a country that doesn't use the police as a tool to manipulate the public opinion. It is common practice! Utterly undemocratic of course, but I don't see why anyone would expect Russia not to use police brutality since the pioneers of this practice are those who claim to carry the torch of democracy.

sergeriver wrote:

When Democracy fails in any country it is a sad thing, when it fails in Russia it can be very dangerous.

Why do you say that? (honest question)

I think Russia under the rule of someone like Putin could be very dangerous.  Think about all the resources Russia has and how dependant on these resources some EU countries are.  Not to mention the huge amount of nukes and the close relations Russia has with Iran and other nice countries.

I would say its becoming border line.

Stingray24 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

At the moment it is a proper democracy. But they're on a slippery slope. It could all change.

Without Liberals, America would be Russia.

Who comprises the rabid anti-gun/anti-2nd amendment camp?  Liberals.  Who sues schools and businesses during the holiday in an attempt to restrict free speech only because it's religious?  ACLU liberals.  I can keep going all day.

Nice talking point. My statement is still true. Thanks for playing.

Looks like Yeltsin is thinking "omfgz lenin returnz"

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Without Liberals, America would be Russia.

Who comprises the rabid anti-gun/anti-2nd amendment camp?  Liberals.  Who sues schools and businesses during the holiday in an attempt to restrict free speech only because it's religious?  ACLU liberals.  I can keep going all day.

Nice talking point. My statement is still true. Thanks for playing.

Not talking points.  Facts.  Conservatives do not restrict constitutional rights, liberals do.  So without conservatives, America would be Russia.  I would have quoted Varegg, but there are European countries that still allow religious freedom.

BALTINS wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … g70100.jpg

Looks like Yeltsin is thinking "omfgz lenin returnz"

Yeltsin also looks like he's about to say  "I've been waiting for you Mr. Putin" in an evil voice.
IMO Russia is slowly heading back to its old ways, not at the most noticeable rate, but it is definately something along those lines.

Stingray24 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Who comprises the rabid anti-gun/anti-2nd amendment camp?  Liberals.  Who sues schools and businesses during the holiday in an attempt to restrict free speech only because it's religious?  ACLU liberals.  I can keep going all day.

Nice talking point. My statement is still true. Thanks for playing.

Not talking points.  Facts.  Conservatives do not restrict constitutional rights, liberals do.  So without conservatives, America would be Russia.  I would have quoted Varegg, but there are European countries that still allow religious freedom.

No. It'd be more like Europe, where we are quite happy to change constitutional rights to fit in with the demands of a constantly evolving social model. The important difference is the authoritarian aspect, which conservatives are quite keen on, yet liberals abhor. Russia is a very authoritarian state.

sergeriver wrote:

I think Russia under the rule of someone like Putin could be very dangerous.  Think about all the resources Russia has and how dependant on these resources some EU countries are.  Not to mention the huge amount of nukes and the close relations Russia has with Iran and other nice countries.

I don't think that Putin would want to change the status quo of dependency from Russia the EU countries have at the moment... In a sense, I think that the loss of democratic procedures would have a more profound effect on the internal affairs of the country, and that Russia's foreign policy would roughly remain the same (except of course from the fleeing foreign investors and the subsequent economic isolation... which is not good). Last time something like this happened, Lenin barely managed to save the economy and the people from famine by signing an agreement with the desperate post-WWI Germany.

After all, Russia never had an expansive policy in mind, appart  from the oil-rich regions in its south, and even that was something I, for one, always saw as a counter-measure to the USA's efforts to control these regions, be it in the spirit of the Cold War armament race or after.

As for the nukes, I honestly doubt that anyone, under any form of government would try and stir things up. Generally, I wouldn't consider the possible brushing off of democratic procedures to be much of a tool for Putin to change things to such an extent. The Russian system, as it stands now, has not prevented Putin from succeeding in his efforts to re-strengthen the country. Radical change would only be a setback for him.

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Nice talking point. My statement is still true. Thanks for playing.

Not talking points.  Facts.  Conservatives do not restrict constitutional rights, liberals do.  So without conservatives, America would be Russia.  I would have quoted Varegg, but there are European countries that still allow religious freedom.

So liberals are running Russia? So Putin is a liberal?

I think Stingray has found the red binder a little early this morning.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=71424

No.  Your earlier post stated the US would be Russia if there were no liberals here.  I simply continued your line of thought by reversing your statement and presenting my perspective.  I said nothing of Russia or Putin being liberal.  It’s strange that you think a completely conservative nation would be like Russia, which has no religious freedom.       

I'll take a shot after work, if you're buying.

Sanjaya wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Not talking points.  Facts.  Conservatives do not restrict constitutional rights, liberals do.  .

Uh

LOL LOL PATRIOT ACT LOL LOL PATRIOT ACT LOL LOL

The Patriot Act has not affected me in the least.  I still have my free speech, my right to vote, my right to public assembly, my right to own my gun collection, and my right to the religion of my choosing so I'm happy.  If you want to debate the Patriot Act we have some old threads about it.  Stop calling Pakistan and Iran and maybe you won't be worried.

I addressed your statement with the fact that not one of my rights has been violated by the Patriot Act.  Where's the faulty logic?  Like I said before, if you want to debate the Patriot Act, start another thread or revive an old one.

When the government spends the tax payers money in foreign issues and forget about domestic ones, those are your rights being affected and violated.