ATG
Banned
+5,233|6978|Global Command
"   "You officers amuse yourselves with God knows what buffooneries and never dream in the least of serious service. This is a source of stupidity which would become most dangerous in case of a serious conflict."
- Frederick the Great   "
Source.

Dick Marcinko talked about why he dropped out of the naval officers corps. He described the top brass as a bunch of idiots who by their nature were more politician than soldier. Politicians always loose wars.

Having spent a decade preparing to fight the wrong war, America's generals then miscalculated both the means and ways necessary to succeed in Iraq. The most fundamental military miscalculation in Iraq has been the failure to commit sufficient forces to provide security to Iraq's population. U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) estimated in its 1998 war plan that 380,000 troops would be necessary for an invasion of Iraq. Using operations in Bosnia and Kosovo as a model for predicting troop requirements, one Army study estimated a need for 470,000 troops. Alone among America's generals, Army Chief of Staff General Eric Shinseki publicly stated that "several hundred thousand soldiers" would be necessary to stabilize post-Saddam Iraq. Prior to the war, President Bush promised to give field commanders everything necessary for victory. Privately, many senior general officers both active and retired expressed serious misgivings about the insufficiency of forces for Iraq. These leaders would later express their concerns in tell-all books such as "Fiasco" and "Cobra II." However, when the U.S. went to war in Iraq with less than half the strength required to win, these leaders did not make their objections public.

Given the lack of troop strength, not even the most brilliant general could have devised the ways necessary to stabilize post-Saddam Iraq. However, inept planning for postwar Iraq took the crisis caused by a lack of troops and quickly transformed it into a debacle. In 1997, the U.S. Central Command exercise "Desert Crossing" demonstrated that many postwar stabilization tasks would fall to the military. The other branches of the U.S. government lacked sufficient capability to do such work on the scale required in Iraq. Despite these results, CENTCOM accepted the assumption that the State Department would administer postwar Iraq. The military never explained to the president the magnitude of the challenges inherent in stabilizing postwar Iraq.
So, in looking for reasons why we are failing in Iraq, I see the same idiocy at work as in Vietnam.
Why is it that America has to relearn the same lessons over again every time we go to war?

I lay the looming failure in Iraq  at the feet of:

A) The Bush White House, for choosing a optional target and leaving OBL free to live in Pakistan.
B) Military leadership addicted to big ticket high tech weapons and failing to use basic common sense ( when they disbanded Saddams army ).
C) The Iraqi people, for not chasing the " foreign born " terrorist out and for not policing themselves.


Cut and run will not happen, so we have a endless hellish slog without end in site, and this may well just be a prelude to a larger war.

Excluding the bravery and excellence of the enlisted:   so far, I am not impressed.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7050|132 and Bush

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p1382568

Yea it was a good read. Probably deserving of it's own topic though.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7211

Way too many old, cold war, fat, white dudes still there.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6978|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=1382568#p1382568

Yea it was a good read. Probably deserving of it's own topic though.
I did search this time.
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7192|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
So, in looking for reasons why we are failing in Iraq,
George Tenet ex chief of the CIA has a few interesting thoughts on the matter

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6599183.stm

edit : oopsie I mean Lieutenant Colonel Paul Yingling has a few interesting thoughts on the matter

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6600893.stm

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-04-28 10:15:29)

Commie Killer
Member
+192|6836

usmarine2005 wrote:

Way too many old, cold war, fat, white dudes still there.
We need some new blood, but its bad to get rid of all the old, you have to be ready for all the possiblities, there might be a new Cold War coming up.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7050|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=1382568#p1382568

Yea it was a good read. Probably deserving of it's own topic though.
I did search this time.
I know.. I was a little elusive.

I don't think congress should be picking our generals.

However...He is right on about this though ..
"Popular passions are necessary for the successful prosecution of war, but cannot be sufficient. To prevail, generals must provide policymakers and the public with a correct estimation of strategic probabilities. The general is responsible for estimating the likelihood of success in applying force to achieve the aims of policy. The general describes both the means necessary for the successful prosecution of war and the ways in which the nation will employ those means. If the policymaker desires ends for which the means he provides are insufficient, the general is responsible for advising the statesman of this incongruence. The statesman must then scale back the ends of policy or mobilize popular passions to provide greater means. If the general remains silent while the statesman commits a nation to war with insufficient means, he shares culpability for the results."
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6854|North Carolina
The military should be a meritocracy, but like the rest of the government, its upper levels are a bureaucracy.

It doesn't really matter though.  Not only do we lose wars because of politicians, but we also enter them in the first place because of them.

As long as the military industrial complex runs our government along with Big Oil, we'll continue to enter ridiculous wars.
Lost Hope
Lurker
+20|6776|Brussels, Belgium

Turquoise wrote:

The military should be a meritocracy, but like the rest of the government, its upper levels are a bureaucracy.

It doesn't really matter though.  Not only do we lose wars because of politicians, but we also enter them in the first place because of them.

As long as the military industrial complex runs our government along with Big Oil, we'll continue to enter ridiculous wars.
What he said, and it should also be noted that it applies to other countries too, like France.

People here like to bash France when they should bash the High Command of the French military.

If you search instead of jumping in the flamewagon, you'd notice it for the 1871 war, the WWI, WWII and the Indochina war and maybe others.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/9c9f8f6ff3579a4c711aa54bbb9e928ec0786003.png
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|7096|Peoria
Watched a good show on the history channel last night about Patton. It's sad that we haven't seen such great leadership in a while. We need another man who's willing to lead from the front.

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