Dammit, Jim...video's out again...

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Dammit, Jim...video's out again...

2007-05-01 21:34:11

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

...Well, quit pickin' at it!
I ain't pickin' at it dammit!

...

I've discovered a new and interesting issue. A day ago, I video glitched out of Battlefield 2, which required a new boot. Computer worked fine afterwards, but I figured I'd give time for it to cool down (though it wasn't that hot to begin with). Well, it's slowly worked its way back up to a sort of climactic, catastrophic failure tonight.

Shortspecs: [Athlon 3500+; A8V Deluxe; 4x512MB DDR-400 (Corsair 2-2-2-5/OCZ 2-3-2-5 in 2-3-2-5-2T); BFG6800UOC256 AGP; Sound Blaster Audigy ZS 2; Thermaltake 560] blt. Nov'04

Symptoms:

1) Glitchy text and other artifacts immediately upon boot.
2) XP Pro inoperative upon standard state, but operative in safe mode.

During tests, I've counted out numerous failure possibilities in BIOS, memory, disk drives, disc drive, audio drive, monitor cables, monitor, and the two individual DVI-I inputs on my graphic card.

One would conclude from the OS working fine in safe mode that the video drivers are causing problems. This is a possibility, but the fact that glitches appear before the OS comes to life precludes that as the only one.

My next steps are:

1) Install different video drivers just to see if that solves the problems with the OS, if not on boot.
2) Plug main rig into another wall socket (with surge protection, of course) to see if it's receiving undervoltage from the Belkin UPS or from the wall itself.
3) Swap video card into neighboring rig to determine its functional status.
4) Swap power from neighboring rig to determine if main rig's PSU is malfunctioning.
5) Assume that either the motherboard or CPU is bad (most likely the CPU). The parts are a bit dated to try replacing. If installation of new BIOS drivers does not help, then a new rig may be possible.

Now, any fellow techs on here guessing what I'm guessing...CPU? If that's the case, then there's still a $90 replacement hope for this rig yet. But it's still a gamble.

[edit - no, overheating's not the issue]

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-01 21:38:41)

2007-05-01 21:40:55

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7186

it sounds like heat or the card is dying... whats the temp on the vid card...if you have a temp monitor?

And it doesnt sound like the cpu... sounds like the gpu...

Love is the answer

2007-05-01 21:43:12

The Stillhouse Kid: Licensed Televulcanologist; +126|7112|Deep In The South Of Texas

I'd test the card in another PC first.

2007-05-01 21:44:17

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
it sounds like heat or the card is dying... whats the temp on the vid card...if you have a temp monitor?

And it doesnt sound like the cpu... sounds like the gpu...

The video card is cool to the touch at the moment. But the rig says it's "[kanning{IDE{dr8gvs{{{{{{," among other things during boot...so the possibility of CPU glitching remains open. If it stops when I insert an old VGA card, I'll eat my hat.

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:
I'd test the card in another PC first.

Steps 1 and 2 take less effort than 3.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-01 21:45:47)

2007-05-01 21:44:40

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

Visual glitches would suggest it's the video card(s) - particularly if it's glitching during POST.

2007-05-01 21:46:12

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
[TUF]Catbox wrote:
it sounds like heat or the card is dying... whats the temp on the vid card...if you have a temp monitor?

And it doesnt sound like the cpu... sounds like the gpu...
The video card is cool to the touch at the moment. But the rig says it's "[kanning{IDE{dr8gvs{{{{{{," among other things during boot...so the possibility of CPU glitching remains open. If it stops when I insert an old VGA card, I'll eat my hat.

ah, so, is the 'glitching' during boot just random letter replacements? or is it always the same (but wrong) thing?

or other?

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-05-01 21:46:26)

2007-05-01 21:47:26

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Visual glitches would suggest it's the video card(s) - particularly if it's glitching during POST.

Yeah, the CPU failures I usually encounter are absolute. Still, I find it odd that it affects everything but safe mode. If the two of you above are right, well, maybe it's just me, preferring to replace a cheaper component...find out in the morning.

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
ah, so, is the 'glitching' during boot just random letter replacements? or is it always the same (but wrong) thing?

or other?

Identically-incorrect boot text. Blacked out images and sluggish responsiveness in Windows, normal operation in safe mode.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-01 21:50:17)

2007-05-01 21:50:42

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

if the glitches during post are random letter replacements, then it may be the BIOS got fritzed.

Otherwise I'd (almost) put money on it being the video card(s).

Edit: just seen your edit - could be a fritzed bios or ram issue - test the ram with memtest.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-05-01 21:52:46)

2007-05-01 21:52:46

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
if the glitches during post are random letter replacements, then it may be the BIOS got fritzed.

Yeah, I figured that as a possibility, but I hate screwing with BIOS drivers, so I bumped that forward in the TS process.

Edit: saw your edit. I mentioned in the OP that the memory has been verified via memtest in two sets of two and separate single sets of two.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-01 21:53:52)

2007-05-01 21:53:50

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
if the glitches during post are random letter replacements, then it may be the BIOS got fritzed.
Yeah, I figured that as a possibility, but I hate screwing with BIOS drivers, so I bumped that forward in the TS process.

Yeah, I'd check everything else first - if it is fritzed you might find it's time to buy a new mainboard.

2007-05-01 21:55:15

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
if the glitches during post are random letter replacements, then it may be the BIOS got fritzed.
Yeah, I figured that as a possibility, but I hate screwing with BIOS drivers, so I bumped that forward in the TS process.
Yeah, I'd check everything else first - if it is fritzed you might find it's time to buy a new mainboard.

I hope not. I was hoping for Q4'07/Q1'08 hardware. Once I get into the stage of board swappin', I usually just set the whole thing aside and buy new parts entirely.

2007-05-01 21:57:23

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Yeah, I figured that as a possibility, but I hate screwing with BIOS drivers, so I bumped that forward in the TS process.
Yeah, I'd check everything else first - if it is fritzed you might find it's time to buy a new mainboard.
I hope not. I was hoping for Q4'07/Q1'08 hardware. Once I get into the stage of board swappin', I usually just set the whole thing aside and buy new parts entirely.

If that happens, can I have your video card?

2007-05-01 21:59:20

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Yeah, I'd check everything else first - if it is fritzed you might find it's time to buy a new mainboard.
I hope not. I was hoping for Q4'07/Q1'08 hardware. Once I get into the stage of board swappin', I usually just set the whole thing aside and buy new parts entirely.
If that happens, can I have your video card?

I'm afraid I'd have to keep it as a business loaner.

2007-05-01 22:02:50

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7236|Cambridge (UK)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I hope not. I was hoping for Q4'07/Q1'08 hardware. Once I get into the stage of board swappin', I usually just set the whole thing aside and buy new parts entirely.
If that happens, can I have your video card?
I'm afraid I'd have to keep it as a business loaner.

I wasn't serious anyway.

2007-05-01 22:30:34

The Stillhouse Kid: Licensed Televulcanologist; +126|7112|Deep In The South Of Texas

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
[TUF]Catbox wrote:
it sounds like heat or the card is dying... whats the temp on the vid card...if you have a temp monitor?

And it doesnt sound like the cpu... sounds like the gpu...
The video card is cool to the touch at the moment. But the rig says it's "[kanning{IDE{dr8gvs{{{{{{," among other things during boot...so the possibility of CPU glitching remains open. If it stops when I insert an old VGA card, I'll eat my hat.

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:
I'd test the card in another PC first.
Steps 1 and 2 take less effort than 3.

But are less likely to find the cause of the problem. Given the symptoms you describe my guessing would be, from most likely to least:

Video card
PSU
RAM
Motherboard
CPU

By your own admission you've ruled out everything but GPU and PSU, so that's where you should look first.

2007-05-02 11:53:15

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:
[TUF]Catbox wrote:
it sounds like heat or the card is dying... whats the temp on the vid card...if you have a temp monitor?

And it doesnt sound like the cpu... sounds like the gpu...
The video card is cool to the touch at the moment. But the rig says it's "[kanning{IDE{dr8gvs{{{{{{," among other things during boot...so the possibility of CPU glitching remains open. If it stops when I insert an old VGA card, I'll eat my hat.

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:
I'd test the card in another PC first.
Steps 1 and 2 take less effort than 3.
But are less likely to find the cause of the problem. Given the symptoms you describe my guessing would be, from most likely to least:

Video card
PSU
RAM
Motherboard
CPU

By your own admission you've ruled out everything but GPU and PSU, so that's where you should look first.

I haven't ruled out the motherboard or the CPU, but get this:

30 minutes of testing on a fresh night of sleep have revealed to me that it is possibly combination of three or more problems. My suspicions about the video drivers were correct. They were installed recently, and claimed compatibility with the 6800 series, but have probably tried to access something my video card couldn't handle, or that had a fritzed out part that couldn't handle it. I'll roll them back to the working ones I had before to temporarily solve the problem within Windows.

But get this: the video card displays fritzed info during POST on two other rigs. Both of these (an Intel and an AMD-based) seem to display identically-incorrect gibberish, but in a completely different manner than my newest rig. So when I get back from work, I'm going to pop in a GeForce 2 pointman to see what happens. If nothing, I'll have to check the output of the PSU rails I've been using to power the 6800. If all turns out fine, I'm going to take advantage of BFG's lifetime warranty (if that still applies to their 'legacy' cards).

2007-05-02 21:27:27

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,079|7242|PNW

Today I bought a replacement CPU that a second-hand computer shop was getting rid of for cheaper than I found on newegg, so that solves some of the problems I've had with that. I've also come to the conclusion that the video card was indeed glitchy, but in such a manner that it was very hard to detect with basic Windows XP drivers (thus the illusion of functionality within safe mode).

Props to BFG Tech. I've RMA'd the 6800UOC AGP once after two months, and the replacement worked from Feb 2005 to just this week. I half expected, it now being classified as a legacy product, that BFG Tech would drop their warranty. Not so. Even though they had my name on record, they somehow lost evidence of my previous RMA, but without further questioning, support promised to send out an e-mail with RMA information, and I can get this resolved tomorrow. Even though shipping may be a bit steep, it is still less expensive than buying a new (yes, inferior) 7600 or low-end 7800.

Let it be known that such business practices are how you hook long-term customers. When I throw together a new rig, it's going to have a BFG sticker somewhere within.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-02 21:27:55)

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[TUF]Catbox wrote:

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

The Stillhouse Kid wrote:

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