Pages: 1 2

 

2007-05-04 19:38:52
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS
I cannot for the life of me understand them.

I'm talking about the BNPs, the NFs, the Le Pen's, the Berlusconi's who want to tighten or cease immigration INTO EUROPE.

Can someone explain why anyone would hold this stance IN EUROPE? Anyone who knows half a thing about global demographics and population policies know that this is possibly the WORST thing one could do for the economy.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-05-04 19:40:36
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7155|67.222.138.85
Don't know a whole lot about it, but isn't everyone trying to get out of Europe?

My guess is the economics wasn't even remotely considered, but rather they are trying to protect their culture from foreigners.
2007-05-04 19:43:26
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Don't know a whole lot about it, but isn't everyone trying to get out of Europe?

My guess is the economics wasn't even remotely considered, but rather they are trying to protect their culture from foreigners.
No, it's not that. An excerpt from the wiki article on population aging:

Asia and Europe are the two regions where a significant number of countries face severe population aging in the near future. In these regions within twenty years many countries will face a situation where the largest population cohort will be those over 65 and average age will be approaching 50.

Most of the developed world (with the notable exception of the United States) now has sub-replacement fertility levels, and population growth now depends largely on immigration together with population momentum which arises from previous large generations now enjoying longer life expectancy.
Essentially, you have a huge amount of people who are nothing more than a huge drain on the economy. The rest of the population will have to support them, and this will be more than a strain.

Last edited by Spark (2007-05-04 19:43:38)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-05-04 20:01:34
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7155|67.222.138.85
My point was not many people are immigrating to Europe, mostly emigrants coming out of Europe.

Yes pretty stupid economically, but some countries put their national identity over their national well-being.
2007-05-04 20:27:15
logitech487
Member
+16|6851|From The State Of Taxes
Well we could send 10 million illegal aliens to Europe from the U.S. to help them out
2007-05-04 21:13:31
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943
Tighten immigration? As it is you practically have to have your own business of a million in investment capital to get into the better european nations.
2007-05-04 21:35:05
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6996|San Diego, CA, USA
Immigration is ok as long as those who immigrate meld into your populace.  When they don't, like Muslims in France, then they become a second class and disjointed - they have no loyalty except for the country from which they came.
2007-05-05 01:33:44
crimson_grunt
Shitty Disposition (apparently)
+214|7102|Teesside, UK

Spark wrote:

I cannot for the life of me understand them.

I'm talking about the BNPs, the NFs, the Le Pen's, the Berlusconi's who want to tighten or cease immigration INTO EUROPE.

Can someone explain why anyone would hold this stance IN EUROPE? Anyone who knows half a thing about global demographics and population policies know that this is possibly the WORST thing one could do for the economy.
If the BNPs main goals was stopping illegals coming in to the country and deporting the failed asylum seekers i think they would be more accepted.  However they give the impression that if they are in charge then no one gets in, even genuine refugees and the UK will become white only.

I live in a very multicultural area and I'm often impressed by the sense of community and pride for the area i see from people from other races.  The blight is the groups of white unemployed youths with their cheap bottles of wine going around in groups abusing everyone.  I can never convince my family of this tho as they look at how grotty the estate is and say it was a nice area before all the darkies their term not mine moved in.

People coming to live in this country from abroad seem to make a perfect scapegoat for all society ills.

Last edited by crimson_grunt (2007-05-05 01:53:25)

2007-05-05 01:49:37
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6911|meh-land

Harmor wrote:

Immigration is ok as long as those who immigrate meld into your populace.  When they don't, like Muslims in France, then they become a second class and disjointed - they have no loyalty except for the country from which they came.
this is probably why they are trying to tighten security, to try and stop foreign muslims from immigrating in and then overthrowing the government.  it very nearly happened to france, and they especially will want to control the immigration of muslims
2007-05-05 02:15:49
Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6937|Gogledd Cymru

we have a problem just like in america where your mexican "aliens" are taking all the jobs and worst of all the government is giving them special laws and treating them better than its own population, also they arent deporting religious extremists as much as they should
2007-05-05 02:19:24
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6941|N. Ireland

surgeon_bond wrote:

we have a problem just like in america where your mexican "aliens" are taking all the jobs and worst of all the government is giving them special laws and treating them better than its own population, also they arent deporting religious extremists as much as they should
same over here but replace mexicans with the polish.
2007-05-05 03:22:49
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS
But if you control immigration, you have to find a way of dealing with a severely imbalanced population.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-05-05 03:29:40
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6939|Menlo Park, CA
Immigration is fine as long as it is balanced. . . .

I know if I was a Mexican, I would want to come here to work and make cash. . .I dont blame them for coming here, I blame them for breaking my countries laws and acting like they shouldnt suffer the reprocussions.

Europe is getting invaded by muslims and eastern bloc immigrants that arent necessarily good for the BALANCE of the nations. . .

Just like here in the USA, over immigration by hispanics have wreeked havoc on everything from the educational system to the judicial system and last but not least the health care system.  We need a moratorium on immigrants to let the existing ones get documented, processed and or deported.
2007-05-05 04:19:18
Enzzenmachine
Member
+20|6793
Spark, you have no frikken idea why we wanna stop the immigration in our countries.. believe it or not but immigrants here are the most part of delinquency (I'm not saying all immigrants are delinquants, don't get me wrong). Do you think we can be glad to see all these albanians (or others slav people) come here with their mafiya/mafia attack innocent people with weapons like knives/guns or arabs come here, build their mosques, attack 1 innocent person while they're 5 such cowards.  Do you think it's normal to be ready to fight anyone at any time ? to be always on his guards or be obliged to learn how to fight properly ? to just get a chance not to be beaten up by 10 assholes ? is it normal that more and more women/girls are raped ?
This is mainly due to the immigrants, don't need to be smart to notice it.
And I'm not rascist, I just see the facts.
2007-05-05 04:39:31
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark, you have no frikken idea why we wanna stop the immigration in our countries.. believe it or not but immigrants here are the most part of delinquency (I'm not saying all immigrants are delinquants, don't get me wrong). Do you think we can be glad to see all these albanians (or others slav people) come here with their mafiya/mafia attack innocent people with weapons like knives/guns or arabs come here, build their mosques, attack 1 innocent person while they're 5 such cowards.  Do you think it's normal to be ready to fight anyone at any time ? to be always on his guards or be obliged to learn how to fight properly ? to just get a chance not to be beaten up by 10 assholes ? is it normal that more and more women/girls are raped ?
This is mainly due to the immigrants, don't need to be smart to notice it.
And I'm not rascist, I just see the facts.
And, pray, who made them that? Would they have still carried on as such if you had given them jobs, security, homes? I doubt it.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-05-05 04:41:34
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7072|Birmingham, UK

Spark wrote:

I cannot for the life of me understand them.

I'm talking about the BNPs, the NFs, the Le Pen's, the Berlusconi's who want to tighten or cease immigration INTO EUROPE.

Can someone explain why anyone would hold this stance IN EUROPE? Anyone who knows half a thing about global demographics and population policies know that this is possibly the WORST thing one could do for the economy.
They are foreigners - simple as that.
It's the reason behind a lot of thinking of these political parties - stop foreigners at all costs.
2007-05-05 05:08:43
Enzzenmachine
Member
+20|6793

Spark wrote:

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark, you have no frikken idea why we wanna stop the immigration in our countries.. believe it or not but immigrants here are the most part of delinquency (I'm not saying all immigrants are delinquants, don't get me wrong). Do you think we can be glad to see all these albanians (or others slav people) come here with their mafiya/mafia attack innocent people with weapons like knives/guns or arabs come here, build their mosques, attack 1 innocent person while they're 5 such cowards.  Do you think it's normal to be ready to fight anyone at any time ? to be always on his guards or be obliged to learn how to fight properly ? to just get a chance not to be beaten up by 10 assholes ? is it normal that more and more women/girls are raped ?
This is mainly due to the immigrants, don't need to be smart to notice it.
And I'm not rascist, I just see the facts.
And, pray, who made them that? Would they have still carried on as such if you had given them jobs, security, homes? I doubt it.
well ye.. you're not aware of what I'm talking about.. Because you think they all want to get job ? haha lemme laugh 1 minute... Now back to serious. Some are here to get a job and better life and I've nothing against these as long as they don't break laws.
Others are here because they truly know that our fucking government will give them enough money to be able not to work at all. And even I TRULY doubt that an immigrant can buy mercedes, BMW, many TVs, PCs, DVDs, even with what our government give them per month.. so easy to understand how they got them... (and that's just an example)
And anyway, everyday I see those people act like I said in the real life and that's why I'm saying you don't know at all what you're talking about.. that's very easy to say "it's europeans fault".. what a smart bad ass excuse.. woaw.. with what our government give them, they could live properly like everyone else here. And you know what ? I don't need to steal/rape/racket others to get a proper life. We never asked them to do such things.
Stop to read Wikipedia or any shit like that because you think like a socialist (something like democrats for you american though it's not exactly the same thing for ya) does aka it seems you're in another world than ours.

Come live in Europe, especially in France and UK, you shall understand why...
2007-05-05 12:55:35
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6978|The lunar module

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark wrote:

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark, you have no frikken idea why we wanna stop the immigration in our countries.. believe it or not but immigrants here are the most part of delinquency (I'm not saying all immigrants are delinquants, don't get me wrong). Do you think we can be glad to see all these albanians (or others slav people) come here with their mafiya/mafia attack innocent people with weapons like knives/guns or arabs come here, build their mosques, attack 1 innocent person while they're 5 such cowards.  Do you think it's normal to be ready to fight anyone at any time ? to be always on his guards or be obliged to learn how to fight properly ? to just get a chance not to be beaten up by 10 assholes ? is it normal that more and more women/girls are raped ?
This is mainly due to the immigrants, don't need to be smart to notice it.
And I'm not rascist, I just see the facts.
And, pray, who made them that? Would they have still carried on as such if you had given them jobs, security, homes? I doubt it.
well ye.. you're not aware of what I'm talking about.. Because you think they all want to get job ? haha lemme laugh 1 minute... Now back to serious. Some are here to get a job and better life and I've nothing against these as long as they don't break laws.
Others are here because they truly know that our fucking government will give them enough money to be able not to work at all. And even I TRULY doubt that an immigrant can buy mercedes, BMW, many TVs, PCs, DVDs, even with what our government give them per month.. so easy to understand how they got them... (and that's just an example)
And anyway, everyday I see those people act like I said in the real life and that's why I'm saying you don't know at all what you're talking about.. that's very easy to say "it's europeans fault".. what a smart bad ass excuse.. woaw.. with what our government give them, they could live properly like everyone else here. And you know what ? I don't need to steal/rape/racket others to get a proper life. We never asked them to do such things.
Stop to read Wikipedia or any shit like that because you think like a socialist (something like democrats for you american though it's not exactly the same thing for ya) does aka it seems you're in another world than ours.

Come live in Europe, especially in France and UK, you shall understand why...
I'm a European, and I fully disagree with you.

The only rational approach towards immigration is to encourage it. Without a steady influx of immigrants, Europe will seace to be a productive region of the world. Our negative population growth rate will see to that.
2007-05-05 14:16:54
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6939|Menlo Park, CA

apollo_fi wrote:

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark wrote:

And, pray, who made them that? Would they have still carried on as such if you had given them jobs, security, homes? I doubt it.
well ye.. you're not aware of what I'm talking about.. Because you think they all want to get job ? haha lemme laugh 1 minute... Now back to serious. Some are here to get a job and better life and I've nothing against these as long as they don't break laws.
Others are here because they truly know that our fucking government will give them enough money to be able not to work at all. And even I TRULY doubt that an immigrant can buy mercedes, BMW, many TVs, PCs, DVDs, even with what our government give them per month.. so easy to understand how they got them... (and that's just an example)
And anyway, everyday I see those people act like I said in the real life and that's why I'm saying you don't know at all what you're talking about.. that's very easy to say "it's europeans fault".. what a smart bad ass excuse.. woaw.. with what our government give them, they could live properly like everyone else here. And you know what ? I don't need to steal/rape/racket others to get a proper life. We never asked them to do such things.
Stop to read Wikipedia or any shit like that because you think like a socialist (something like democrats for you american though it's not exactly the same thing for ya) does aka it seems you're in another world than ours.

Come live in Europe, especially in France and UK, you shall understand why...
I'm a European, and I fully disagree with you.

The only rational approach towards immigration is to encourage it. Without a steady influx of immigrants, Europe will seace to be a productive region of the world. Our negative population growth rate will see to that.
Yea sure. . . .

I'll bet a country like Norway wants tons of people coming into their country in droves trying to exploit their benefits. . . .

Over immigration is dangerous and irresponsible! I am a Californian, and my state is getting ruined by over immigration. . . . We have so many people that arent supposed to be here, its rediculous!

The hispanic immigrants (primarily Mexican) have more allegiance towards Mexico than the USA, and its the Mexican government that is treating them like shit!! They are the ones not taking care of their citizens, forcing them to come here! Its fucking crazy, and needs to stop!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-05 14:19:31)

2007-05-05 14:47:03
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003
The only ones here in the Republic of Ireland who are anti-immigration are the dregs of society, the great unwashed, the ones who feel comfortable complaining about those 'fucking immigrants' taking up employment in the likes of McDonalds when they're too fucking lazy to take those same jobs themselves. Thankfully we don't have very many of them because to be honest we've almost got full employment in this country. With the dregs of society it is very much a 'two legs good, four legs bad' ignorant entrenched viewpoint devoid of reason. Their simple minds process a person speaking polish or a person with dark skin as 'someone stealing our jobs'. Bigoted and nationalist organisation can easily harness their lack of intelligence for their own purposes.

For the most part the Irish realise that our economy is growing and booming BECAUSE of immigration. The Irish have become prima donnas. We all have degrees or trades or whatever and there's no-one left to do the shitty jobs. There isn't even enough people to do the hi-tech jobs. So if we want to expand and get ahead we MUST embrace immigration.

Personally I think the government should reserve the right to select those immigrants that will benefit the country most and insist that immigrants take serious measures to integrate into Irish society.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/NonnationalsIreland2006.png/729px-NonnationalsIreland2006.png

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-05 14:49:13)

2007-05-05 14:55:36
herrr_smity
Member
+156|7076|space command ur anus
the polish is the Mexicans of Europe.
and yes i do have a problem withe immigration, these leches comes to MY country and makes demands how MY country should be and living on welfare and complains that they cant get a job, well if you do an effort to learn the language and the cultural norms of the country you are coming to maybe you could get a job.
just the other day i saw these somalis that was walking don the street and i shit you not they had like 5 kids and in Norway you get child support and something called kontantstøtte if you don't send your kid to kindergarten those two combined means that you will be getting each month tax free 2 629 of your fancy dollars and if that ain't leaching on the working man i don't know what is

Last edited by herrr_smity (2007-05-05 15:13:35)

2007-05-05 14:56:15
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|7103|United States of America

CameronPoe wrote:

The only ones here in the Republic of Ireland who are anti-immigration are the dregs of society, the great unwashed, the ones who feel comfortable complaining about those 'fucking immigrants' taking up employment in the likes of McDonalds when they're too fucking lazy to take those same jobs themselves. Thankfully we don't have very many of them because to be honest we've almost got full employment in this country. With the dregs of society it is very much a 'two legs good, four legs bad' ignorant entrenched viewpoint devoid of reason. Their simple minds process a person speaking polish or a person with dark skin as 'someone stealing our jobs'. Bigoted and nationalist organisation can easily harness their lack of intelligence for their own purposes.

For the most part the Irish realise that our economy is growing and booming BECAUSE of immigration. The Irish have become prima donnas. We all have degrees or trades or whatever and there's no-one left to do the shitty jobs. There isn't even enough people to do the hi-tech jobs. So if we want to expand and get ahead we MUST embrace immigration.

Personally I think the government should reserve the right to select those immigrants that will benefit the country most and insist that immigrants take serious measures to integrate into Irish society.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … nd2006.png
Holy shit, I agree with Cameron.  You have legal immigrants over there.  Here in the US we select our immigrants by raising the fence they have to jump or widening the river they have to cross.  This way we get the top of the line jumpers and swimmers in the country, 12 million so far.  Oh, the legal ones have to read english, write english, speak english, learn US history, and US government. 2 million so far.  Not even one Jumping or Swimming test for them.
2007-05-05 15:03:44
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7258|Nårvei

It`s not so much we don`t want immigration into Europe but a too large amount at a too short a time creates a problem !

I can understand countries with high unemployment rates like Germany and France that at the moment faces serious issues about taking on more immigrants and refugees when they have difficulties integrating the large numbers of immigrants that are allready there !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2007-05-05 16:26:56
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark wrote:

Enzzenmachine wrote:

Spark, you have no frikken idea why we wanna stop the immigration in our countries.. believe it or not but immigrants here are the most part of delinquency (I'm not saying all immigrants are delinquants, don't get me wrong). Do you think we can be glad to see all these albanians (or others slav people) come here with their mafiya/mafia attack innocent people with weapons like knives/guns or arabs come here, build their mosques, attack 1 innocent person while they're 5 such cowards.  Do you think it's normal to be ready to fight anyone at any time ? to be always on his guards or be obliged to learn how to fight properly ? to just get a chance not to be beaten up by 10 assholes ? is it normal that more and more women/girls are raped ?
This is mainly due to the immigrants, don't need to be smart to notice it.
And I'm not rascist, I just see the facts.
And, pray, who made them that? Would they have still carried on as such if you had given them jobs, security, homes? I doubt it.
well ye.. you're not aware of what I'm talking about.. Because you think they all want to get job ? haha lemme laugh 1 minute... Now back to serious. Some are here to get a job and better life and I've nothing against these as long as they don't break laws.
Others are here because they truly know that our fucking government will give them enough money to be able not to work at all. And even I TRULY doubt that an immigrant can buy mercedes, BMW, many TVs, PCs, DVDs, even with what our government give them per month.. so easy to understand how they got them... (and that's just an example)
And anyway, everyday I see those people act like I said in the real life and that's why I'm saying you don't know at all what you're talking about.. that's very easy to say "it's europeans fault".. what a smart bad ass excuse.. woaw.. with what our government give them, they could live properly like everyone else here. And you know what ? I don't need to steal/rape/racket others to get a proper life. We never asked them to do such things.
Stop to read Wikipedia or any shit like that because you think like a socialist (something like democrats for you american though it's not exactly the same thing for ya) does aka it seems you're in another world than ours.

Come live in Europe, especially in France and UK, you shall understand why...
I'm saying that in ten years, without engouh immigration, your economy will collapse due to severe imbalances.

http://www.ined.fr/jeux.php?_movie=char … amp;jeu=ok

Select Europe and watch. That's what happens if there isn't immigration. Even if you have an immigration rate of another 0.6, you'll still have severe economic troubles for the next century (until it evens out)

Last edited by Spark (2007-05-05 16:37:22)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-05-05 16:43:57
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Spark wrote:

I cannot for the life of me understand them.

I'm talking about the BNPs, the NFs, the Le Pen's, the Berlusconi's who want to tighten or cease immigration INTO EUROPE.

Can someone explain why anyone would hold this stance IN EUROPE? Anyone who knows half a thing about global demographics and population policies know that this is possibly the WORST thing one could do for the economy.
I propose an alternative...  It's not about restricting immigration so much as it is about being more selective.

I think the riots in Paris not long ago underline the problems between French culture and North African immigrants.  I hereby propose that France and the rest of Western Europe allow more East Asians into Europe while putting heavier limits on people coming from Africa, South Asia, and the Middle East.

This way, less Muslims enter your countries, and less cultural conflicts result from immigration in general.  I believe that most of the cultures in East Asia would conform better to the European way of life than the ones of the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa.  You could also let in more South Americans.

Of course, there are also Muslims in East Asia (most notably Indonesians), but they seem to follow a version of Islam that is less conflicting with your way of life.

 

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