Spanish 'Democracy' - Euskal Herria

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Spanish 'Democracy' - Euskal Herria

2007-05-06 03:44:36

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6629239.stm

Turns out Spain are just as fond of manipulating/fixing 'democratic' elections as other western nations. THey are banning hundreds of candidates from local elections who happen to believe in the legitimate right of the ancient and unique Basque people of having their own independent country, the Basque Country (El País Vasco or Euskal Herria). It turns out 'accusations of connections to' equates to 'guilty until proven innocent' in Spain.

https://www.indymedia.nl/img/2002/09/6453.jpg

https://www.filosofia.org/his/h1999eta.jpg

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-06 03:45:23)

2007-05-06 04:10:30

oug: Calmer than you are.; +380|6967|Πάϊ

The article doesn't mention on what grounds this court ruling was made... Still it all seems to me like desperate measures to stop any expansion of the separatist movement.

_ƒ³

2007-05-06 08:22:16

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6977|Global Command

I also don't know if the Basques are asking for a chunk of Spain, or do they have their own dirt farm somewhere?

2007-05-06 08:33:36

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7097

CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6629239.stm

Turns out Spain are just as fond of manipulating/fixing 'democratic' elections as other western nations. THey are banning hundreds of candidates from local elections who happen to believe in the legitimate right of the ancient and unique Basque people of having their own independent country, the Basque Country (El País Vasco or Euskal Herria). It turns out 'accusations of connections to' equates to 'guilty until proven innocent' in Spain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ry.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ia.svg.png

http://www.indymedia.nl/img/2002/09/6453.jpg

http://www.filosofia.org/his/h1999eta.jpg

Why is it their right to be a separate country? As I understood it, it'd always been part of Spain.

2007-05-06 08:36:56

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7097

ATG wrote:
I also don't know if the Basques are asking for a chunk of Spain, or do they have their own dirt farm somewhere?

They want a chunk of Spain. And it isn't the Basques, it's just a group of terrorists that want it as a separate country. I can't remember the figures, but only a tiny minority actually want to separate.

2007-05-06 09:52:31

Lost Hope: Lurker; +20|6775|Brussels, Belgium

CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6629239.stm

Turns out Spain are just as fond of manipulating/fixing 'democratic' elections as other western nations. THey are banning hundreds of candidates from local elections who happen to believe in the legitimate right of the ancient and unique Basque people of having their own independent country, the Basque Country (El País Vasco or Euskal Herria). It turns out 'accusations of connections to' equates to 'guilty until proven innocent' in Spain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ry.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ia.svg.png

http://www.indymedia.nl/img/2002/09/6453.jpg

http://www.filosofia.org/his/h1999eta.jpg

Spain will never let the Basques be independent, if they do that, then the country will split up because other regions would want the same.

The Basques should actually stfu, they have a very large autonomy, they even have their own police forces ffs.

https://bf3s.com/sigs/9c9f8f6ff3579a4c711aa54bbb9e928ec0786003.png

2007-05-06 10:13:06

theelviscerator: Member; +19|6737

Isnt Ireland still part of the UK?

Kowtowing to the Queen and all that?

2007-05-06 10:24:55

gunmedown: Member; +5|6870|Hernani, Guipuzcoa

Banning political parties in Spain is a national sport, i think that very 3 or 4 months another Basque Party is banned by the Spanish Government. Basque Nationalism is VERY HIGH HERE as i know as i have been living here for 4 years with the misses who is Basque. The percentage of Basques who want independence is very high as well, not sure of the percentage off hand but is more than 50%. The Basques are not asking for a chunk of Spain, they are asking for want is theirs by right. Basque history goes back to before the Romans, their language is unique as it is not based on any other language in Europe. The Basques were here first and have to right to their land.

Agur eta Eskerrik Asko

If anybody wants a history lesson on Basque-Spanish history please let me know!??

Last edited by gunmedown (2007-05-06 10:29:17)

2007-05-06 10:32:31

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

gunmedown wrote:
Banning political parties in Spain is a national sport, i think that very 3 or 4 months another Basque Party is banned by the Spanish Government. Basque Nationalism is VERY HIGH HERE as i know as i have been living here for 4 years with the misses who is Basque. The percentage of Basques who want independence is very high as well, not sure of the percentage off hand but is more than 50%. The Basques are not asking for a chunk of Spain, they are asking for want is theirs by right. Basque history goes back to before the Romans, their language is unique as it is not based on any other language in Europe. The Basques were here first and have to right to their land.

Agur eta Eskerrik Asko

Glad to meet a Basque online! Ireland-Euskal Herria solidarity brother!

I was in Donostia last year and in Nafarroa. The Basques seemed like a really proud people with a unique culture, heritage and language. I've been reading about ye for a while now. We have a lot of Basque independence murals on walls here in the north of Ireland.

This thread is showing how little of an understanding people in the outside world have because they only hear the Spanish side of the story. If it wasn't for Franco there would be a fully independent Euskal Herria today. If it wasn't for Franco Catalunya would be independent today too.

And to answer another idiotic question: The Republic of Ireland has nothing whatsoever in the least to do with the Queen or the United Kingdom. It isn't even part of the commonwealth thank you very much.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-06 10:33:24)

2007-05-06 10:41:26

Cerpin_Taxt: Member; +155|6651

Isn't Ireland in the UK?

2007-05-06 10:42:55

Lost Hope: Lurker; +20|6775|Brussels, Belgium

CameronPoe wrote:
gunmedown wrote:
Banning political parties in Spain is a national sport, i think that very 3 or 4 months another Basque Party is banned by the Spanish Government. Basque Nationalism is VERY HIGH HERE as i know as i have been living here for 4 years with the misses who is Basque. The percentage of Basques who want independence is very high as well, not sure of the percentage off hand but is more than 50%. The Basques are not asking for a chunk of Spain, they are asking for want is theirs by right. Basque history goes back to before the Romans, their language is unique as it is not based on any other language in Europe. The Basques were here first and have to right to their land.

Agur eta Eskerrik Asko
Glad to meet a Basque online! Ireland-Euskal Herria solidarity brother!

I was in Donostia last year and in Nafarroa. The Basques seemed like a really proud people with a unique culture, heritage and language. I've been reading about ye for a while now. We have a lot of Basque independence murals on walls here in the north of Ireland.

This thread is showing how little of an understanding people in the outside world have because they only hear the Spanish side of the story. If it wasn't for Franco there would be a fully independent Euskal Herria today. If it wasn't for Franco Catalunya would be independent today too.

And to answer another idiotic question: The Republic of Ireland has nothing whatsoever in the least to do with the Queen or the United Kingdom. It isn't even part of the commonwealth thank you very much.

I side with the Spanish because I don't understand the Basques, they aren't being repressed (anymore) and they already have a large autonomy, what will independece bring them ?

Spain as banned Batasuna because it didn't condemn the terrorist attacks of ETA (I'm not completely sure about that, I might be wrong but I'm too lazy to search right now).

The only good thing ETA did is kill Franco's successor.

2007-05-06 10:47:48

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Lost Hope wrote:
I side with the Spanish because I don't understand the Basques, they aren't being repressed (anymore) and they already have a large autonomy, what will independece bring them ?

Spain as banned Batasuna because it didn't condemn the terrorist attacks of ETA (I'm not completely sure about that, I might be wrong but I'm too lazy to search right now).

The only good thing ETA did is kill Franco's successor.

Every distinct people on earth have the right to full self determination out from underneath the vested interests of another power. Independence will bring them even more prosperity. These people in the article are not Batasuna - they are accused of links to Batasuna. Spain are subverting democracy because they don't like the will of the Basque people. I thought it would be different with Aznar gone but I was mistaken.

2007-05-06 10:50:01

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Isn't Ireland in the UK?

Are you for real? People died so that Ireland could be free from the UK.

https://z.about.com/d/geography/1/0/G/2/ei-150.gif

See that little grey coloured area up in the top right hand corner - that's all the UK are 'temporarily' holding onto..... the rest of the island is free from external invaders/interferers. The clue is in the name: REPUBLIC of Ireland.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-06 10:52:46)

2007-05-06 10:52:30

Lost Hope: Lurker; +20|6775|Brussels, Belgium

CameronPoe wrote:
Lost Hope wrote:
I side with the Spanish because I don't understand the Basques, they aren't being repressed (anymore) and they already have a large autonomy, what will independece bring them ?

Spain as banned Batasuna because it didn't condemn the terrorist attacks of ETA (I'm not completely sure about that, I might be wrong but I'm too lazy to search right now).

The only good thing ETA did is kill Franco's successor.
Every distinct people on earth have the right to full self determination out from underneath the vested interests of another power. Independence will bring them even more prosperity. These people in the article are not Batasuna - they are accused of links to Batasuna. Spain are subverting democracy because they don't like the will of the Basque people. I thought it would be different with Aznar gone but I was mistaken.

Sorry, my bad.

But I still find it unnecessary for them to be independent, it will only lead to a Balkanisation of the area.

2007-05-06 10:53:58

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Lost Hope wrote:
Sorry, my bad.

But I still find it unnecessary for them to be independent, it will only lead to a Balkanisation of the area.

I don't wish to 'push any buttons' here please don't take offence but would you view it as unnecessary or wrong that the Congo wished to be relieved of its Belgian colonist overlords?

2007-05-06 10:55:15

Cerpin_Taxt: Member; +155|6651

You know the Irish saved civilization in the Dark Ages.

2007-05-06 10:56:29

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7097

CameronPoe wrote:
Lost Hope wrote:
I side with the Spanish because I don't understand the Basques, they aren't being repressed (anymore) and they already have a large autonomy, what will independece bring them ?

Spain as banned Batasuna because it didn't condemn the terrorist attacks of ETA (I'm not completely sure about that, I might be wrong but I'm too lazy to search right now).

The only good thing ETA did is kill Franco's successor.
Every distinct people on earth have the right to full self determination out from underneath the vested interests of another power. Independence will bring them even more prosperity. These people in the article are not Batasuna - they are accused of links to Batasuna. Spain are subverting democracy because they don't like the will of the Basque people. I thought it would be different with Aznar gone but I was mistaken.

I've always heard that it was a very small percentage of the Basques that want to separate though. And let's be honest, I can't really see it becoming that good for them if it happens. ETA already have enough control there, I think if the Spanish returned it it would just get worse.

2007-05-06 11:00:12

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

ghettoperson wrote:
I've always heard that it was a very small percentage of the Basques that want to separate though. And let's be honest, I can't really see it becoming that good for them if it happens. ETA already have enough control there, I think if the Spanish returned it it would just get worse.

The Basque country is the richest, most fertile and most industrialised region of Spain. Tax money pours out of the region into the pockets of the Spaniards, so I believe. It's time to stop the rot. Why should the Spanish be enjoying the fruits of the success of the Basque, NON-Spanish, people. If they were granted their homeland ETA would lay down their arms. The Spanish are not the angelic bunch of people you probably think they are.

2007-05-06 11:00:17

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7214|UK

I now treat your views as light entertainment now Poe.

I have a Basque mate who doesnt want independence, and neither do most people he knows.

Poe if everyone had it their way the whole world would be made up of small towns, then we would truly be fucked. It seems to me your just anti any kind of community and unity between people.

2007-05-06 11:00:42

Lost Hope: Lurker; +20|6775|Brussels, Belgium

CameronPoe wrote:
Lost Hope wrote:
Sorry, my bad.

But I still find it unnecessary for them to be independent, it will only lead to a Balkanisation of the area.
I don't wish to 'push any buttons' here please don't take offence but would you view it as unnecessary or wrong that the Congo wished to be relieved of its Belgian colonist overlords?

No offence, I'm not Belgian.

Congo was colonised by Belgium in the 20th century (before that, it was the playground of Léopold II), the Belgians wanted to "civilize" them and educate them (and steal their resources too), it's not the same thing.

2007-05-06 11:01:37

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
You know the Irish saved civilization in the Dark Ages.

We sure did. Our monasteries kept the European bank of knowledge and learning alive while Europe was ravaged by marauding bands of goths, huns, vandals and vikings.

2007-05-06 11:01:46

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7214|UK

CameronPoe wrote:
ghettoperson wrote:
I've always heard that it was a very small percentage of the Basques that want to separate though. And let's be honest, I can't really see it becoming that good for them if it happens. ETA already have enough control there, I think if the Spanish returned it it would just get worse.
The Basque country is the richest, most fertile and most industrialised region of Spain. Tax money pours out of the region into the pockets of the Spaniards, so I believe. It's time to stop the rot. Why should the Spanish be enjoying the fruits of the success of the Basque, NON-Spanish, people. If they were granted their homeland ETA would lay down their arms. The Spanish are not the angelic bunch of people you probably think they are.

Yet again you give terrorists excuses and justify them killing INNOCENT people.

"If the Spanish werent there, ETA wouldnt have to kill innocent people" is pretty much what you are saying. To you the only way ETA should disarm is if they win.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-06 11:03:17)

2007-05-06 11:05:40

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Vilham wrote:
I now treat your views as light entertainment now Poe.

I have a Basque mate who doesnt want independence, and neither do most people he knows.

Poe if everyone had it their way the whole world would be made up of small towns, then we would truly be fucked. It seems to me your just anti any kind of community and unity between people.

I think it's roughly 50/50 on the independence sentiments in the Basque country. I also have a Basque mate who happens to hold the opposite views to your mate. I was also there and saw for myself the posters, murals, banners, anti-Spain literature and such. If it wasn't for Franco the Basque country would be just like Belgium or Holland or Switzerland or any other independent country - we wouldn't be having this conversation - are you suggesting we should be rewarding the acts of despicable tyrants like Franco.

https://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geumXfGD5GAh0BrMBWBQx./SIG=13tlr1u63/EXP=1178561119/**http%3A//employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/ARTH/Images/110images/sl24_images/guernica_details/guernica_all.jpg

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-06 11:08:26)

2007-05-06 11:07:26

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|7003

Vilham wrote:
Yet again you give terrorists excuses and justify them killing INNOCENT people.

"If the Spanish werent there, ETA wouldnt have to kill innocent people" is pretty much what you are saying. To you the only way ETA should disarm is if they win.

Yet again you fail at reading. Outline in clear and precise unambiguous terms WHERE I endorse the killing of civilians to achieve political goals or WHERE I endorse ETA. Happy hunting.

You're so imperialist it's hilarious.

I guess you would be the kind of leader/politician who would outlaw the SNP or Plaid Cymru for having 'subversive political viewpoints'.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-06 11:10:24)

2007-05-06 11:09:59

Lost Hope: Lurker; +20|6775|Brussels, Belgium

The grasp that I have against the Basques is that they sided with the Republicans during the Civil War only because they promised the independence to Euskadi (as they did with Catalunya), they would have sided with Franco if he promised them the same.

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CameronPoe wrote:

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