Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless. As far as 60 years ago, thank Germany and the Soviet Union for that one. I never said wars didn't happen elsewhere, but at least everyone elses knows what the fuck they arefighting for. In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.Reciprocity wrote:
how long ago was the war in Bosnia? and discounting that, the west and Asia have been at relative peace for a whole 60 years. Not counting the current tension between the Koreas. ooh, and don't forget Chechnya. and Great Britian and Ireland have been at peace for so long. good thing they all 'grew the fuck up'lowing wrote:
Don't offer an excuses, but they grew the fuck up eventually didn't they?
DVRCameronPoe wrote:
Afraid not. I've been scouring Youtube in the hope that it's up there.2tuff wrote:
Damn...i hope your parents recorded it....
Malloy must go
The vast majority of people living in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza and the West Bank are just trying to live their lives, raise their kids, feed their families and survive in a world of shit. I don't think that is so different than anyone else.lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless.
It's this child-like, black and white view of the middle east that has put us in such a difficult position. yeah, they're just stupid little children that don't even know what they're doing or why they're doing it. they're driven by the values and beliefs they were taught? who the fuck isn't?Lowing wrote:
In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.
Most ignorant thing you've ever said?lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless. As far as 60 years ago, thank Germany and the Soviet Union for that one. I never said wars didn't happen elsewhere, but at least everyone elses knows what the fuck they arefighting for. In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.Reciprocity wrote:
how long ago was the war in Bosnia? and discounting that, the west and Asia have been at relative peace for a whole 60 years. Not counting the current tension between the Koreas. ooh, and don't forget Chechnya. and Great Britian and Ireland have been at peace for so long. good thing they all 'grew the fuck up'lowing wrote:
Don't offer an excuses, but they grew the fuck up eventually didn't they?
Well super genius, instead of insults, why don't you ACTUALLY say something in rebuttal?ghettoperson wrote:
Most ignorant thing you've ever said?lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless. As far as 60 years ago, thank Germany and the Soviet Union for that one. I never said wars didn't happen elsewhere, but at least everyone elses knows what the fuck they arefighting for. In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.Reciprocity wrote:
how long ago was the war in Bosnia? and discounting that, the west and Asia have been at relative peace for a whole 60 years. Not counting the current tension between the Koreas. ooh, and don't forget Chechnya. and Great Britian and Ireland have been at peace for so long. good thing they all 'grew the fuck up'
1. THe vast majority of them are living in areas that have been war torn for thousands of years. THe sad thing is , they just view it as everyday life now.Reciprocity wrote:
The vast majority of people living in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza and the West Bank are just trying to live their lives, raise their kids, feed their families and survive in a world of shit. I don't think that is so different than anyone else.lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless.
It's this child-like, black and white view of the middle east that has put us in such a difficult position. yeah, they're just stupid little children that don't even know what they're doing or why they're doing it. they're driven by the values and beliefs they were taught? who the fuck isn't?Lowing wrote:
In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.
2. Why are you disputing my sentence, by agreeing with it??
How is that ignorant? I've heard Michael Jackson use the term more appropriately.ghettoperson wrote:
Most ignorant thing you've ever said?lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless. As far as 60 years ago, thank Germany and the Soviet Union for that one. I never said wars didn't happen elsewhere, but at least everyone elses knows what the fuck they arefighting for. In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.Reciprocity wrote:
how long ago was the war in Bosnia? and discounting that, the west and Asia have been at relative peace for a whole 60 years. Not counting the current tension between the Koreas. ooh, and don't forget Chechnya. and Great Britian and Ireland have been at peace for so long. good thing they all 'grew the fuck up'
Well ok then, that's bullshit.lowing wrote:
Well super genius, instead of insults, why don't you ACTUALLY say something in rebuttal?ghettoperson wrote:
Most ignorant thing you've ever said?lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless. As far as 60 years ago, thank Germany and the Soviet Union for that one. I never said wars didn't happen elsewhere, but at least everyone elses knows what the fuck they arefighting for. In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.
Well shit, hard to argue against that line of reasoning, I concede the argument.ghettoperson wrote:
Well ok then, that's bullshit.lowing wrote:
Well super genius, instead of insults, why don't you ACTUALLY say something in rebuttal?ghettoperson wrote:
Most ignorant thing you've ever said?
The key here is that the governments of the Middle East make our government and most European governments look saintly by comparison. These people live mostly under oppression or such a great amount of wealth disparity that education for the public is either sparse or religiously skewed.Reciprocity wrote:
The vast majority of people living in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza and the West Bank are just trying to live their lives, raise their kids, feed their families and survive in a world of shit. I don't think that is so different than anyone else.lowing wrote:
Look pal, if you really are going to compare life in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, West Bank, to life in GB or Ireland then yer pretty much hopeless.
It's this child-like, black and white view of the middle east that has put us in such a difficult position. yeah, they're just stupid little children that don't even know what they're doing or why they're doing it. they're driven by the values and beliefs they were taught? who the fuck isn't?Lowing wrote:
In the ME they fight because they were raised to hate certain people. They don't even need a reason why anymore.
So, yes, these cultures are more likely to produce extremists, which, in my mind, is an indication of cultural immaturity. Islam needs a Reformation. Theocracy must eventually be removed from the Middle East. The problem is that warfare will not accomplish this. Also, we have corporate interests that prefer aristocracies to rule these nations rather than democracies.
So, by fighting in places like Iraq, we really aren't promoting democracy; we're promoting capitalism.
Yet, our meddlings in Middle Eastern affairs have mistakenly caused the people to trust fundamentalist clerics over secular reformists, because they see secularization as an evil Western influence. In truth, it is our ruthless capitalism that is evil, but it is our secular values that make us more culturally evolved.
I love your jealousy of England's former ownage. Get over it please. We gave all our Empire away based on the fact that it was only right to let them choose thier destiny, so stop having a fucking go.CameronPoe wrote:
The determination of their own destiny given that the various disparate peoples in that country were forced together behind borders drawn arbitrarily by the Brits. Iraq was an artificial country and always doomed to fail or explode in ethnic violence.lowing wrote:
Quick question..........You endorse a civil war in Iraq, to what end?CameronPoe wrote:
I made it onto the Riz Khan show on the english version of Al Jazeera on Wednesday. A comment I submitted to them was put to the Syrian ambassador to the UN. Unfortunately I didn't get to see it myself cos I was in the pub: my parents saw it though!
The ambassador disagreed with my assertion that the best thing for Iraq right now would be civil war. Oh well! A UN ambassador is hardly likely to advocate bloodshed.
I disagree. The U.K. was a lot of the reason why we see so many problems in the Middle East.Vilham wrote:
I love your jealousy of England's former ownage. Get over it please. We gave all our Empire away based on the fact that it was only right to let them choose thier destiny, so stop having a fucking go.CameronPoe wrote:
The determination of their own destiny given that the various disparate peoples in that country were forced together behind borders drawn arbitrarily by the Brits. Iraq was an artificial country and always doomed to fail or explode in ethnic violence.lowing wrote:
Quick question..........You endorse a civil war in Iraq, to what end?
Your country more or less created modern Israel. Had you not done that, things would be much more peaceful in the region.
Your country and several other European nations disregarded the advice of Lawrence of Arabia when drawing up the borders of the areas you once ruled. He supported borders drawn upon cultural lines, but Britain ultimately went with lines that were based more on geography and commercial interests.
So yes, your country is to blame for a lot of the history of violence in this region for the last 100 years. Of course, this is far from blaming you for the extremism of the cultures involved. These countries had cultural issues long before the Europeans even messed with them.
a) Western civilization is dissimilar to that of the Middle East.CameronPoe wrote:
a) Western civilisation similarly had thousands of years of bloodshed and infighting, effectively/hopefully ending in 1945, which led to the present day borders of many countries.Kmarion wrote:
Perhaps bloodshed is their destiny. It appears you advocate the bloodshed as a means to an end. Some believe that an "end" will never truly be. I think lowing was referring to 5000 years of bloodshed. (I think)
b) A lot of muslims do/did not think along nationalistic lines as Islam is meant to entail 'total submission to Allah', not to any nation. This could be the reason that they never organised themselves into nations and continued to engage in tribal/sect-based warfare until the west came along and imposed arbitrary borders.
c) If all the various sects can get separated out into their own contiguous states, the borders being defined by civil war, then perhaps peace might ensue. The borders of a LOT of countries are defined through warfare, quite often civil warfare.
a/b/c) What assurance do we have that they would mature into stable nation(s) if left to their own devices? What should be our course of action if, during this free reign of ultra-violence, their discord spilled into western societies? What impact would all this have on the global economy, and how would you convince the world powers to allow a slump?
call the broadcast company, some one will mail you a tape usually. offer $, they never take it.CameronPoe wrote:
Afraid not. I've been scouring Youtube in the hope that it's up there.2tuff wrote:
Damn...i hope your parents recorded it....
Good points, but maybe the problem is that we care more about things like "global economy" rather than regional sovereignty.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
a) Western civilization is dissimilar to that of the Middle East.CameronPoe wrote:
a) Western civilisation similarly had thousands of years of bloodshed and infighting, effectively/hopefully ending in 1945, which led to the present day borders of many countries.Kmarion wrote:
Perhaps bloodshed is their destiny. It appears you advocate the bloodshed as a means to an end. Some believe that an "end" will never truly be. I think lowing was referring to 5000 years of bloodshed. (I think)
b) A lot of muslims do/did not think along nationalistic lines as Islam is meant to entail 'total submission to Allah', not to any nation. This could be the reason that they never organised themselves into nations and continued to engage in tribal/sect-based warfare until the west came along and imposed arbitrary borders.
c) If all the various sects can get separated out into their own contiguous states, the borders being defined by civil war, then perhaps peace might ensue. The borders of a LOT of countries are defined through warfare, quite often civil warfare.
a/b/c) What assurance do we have that they would mature into stable nation(s) if left to their own devices? What should be our course of action if, during this free reign of ultra-violence, their discord spilled into western societies? What impact would all this have on the global economy, and how would you convince the world powers to allow a slump?
What gives us the right to intervene in other people's battles?
QFTTurquoise wrote:
Good points, but maybe the problem is that we care more about things like "global economy" rather than regional sovereignty.
What gives us the right to intervene in other people's battles?
I stopped right there...why am I not surprised that CameronPoe would be watching Al Jazeera?CameronPoe wrote:
I made it onto the Riz Khan show on the english version of Al Jazeera on Wednesday.
Would explain alot of what he says on these forums.
Have you ever watched Al Jazeera? It's nowhere near as biased as FOX News. People should watch every available form of news and find a balance. Watching all forms of news keeps your bullshit detector in good working order.Harmor wrote:
I stopped right there...why am I not surprised that CameronPoe would be watching Al Jazeera?CameronPoe wrote:
I made it onto the Riz Khan show on the english version of Al Jazeera on Wednesday.
Would explain alot of what he says on these forums.
lol. Sorry buddy but you're wrong! I don't have Al Jazeera on my cable package. I only ever see it when I visit my parents in the countryside, they have it on their Sky Digital package. I'm sorry if I take an interest in more than one side of every story - maybe I should stick my head in the sand with some headphones tuned to FOX radio plugged in my ears.Harmor wrote:
I stopped right there...why am I not surprised that CameronPoe would be watching Al Jazeera?CameronPoe wrote:
I made it onto the Riz Khan show on the english version of Al Jazeera on Wednesday.
Would explain alot of what he says on these forums.
I have Al Jazeera on my cable package and Fox.
The big difference between the two is Al Jazeera often looks at things in perspective and often (not always) shows both sides of the story, my impression is they have some of the best reporters and journalists there is.
Fox doesn`t.
The big difference between the two is Al Jazeera often looks at things in perspective and often (not always) shows both sides of the story, my impression is they have some of the best reporters and journalists there is.
Fox doesn`t.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
A civil war in Iraq will be nothing more than genocide. These people are not fighting over land and boarders. they are not looking to expand such as the wars of Europe. They are not trying to create balance nor is one group trying to take control and form a dictatorship. All the infighting is very similar to Gang violence. It florishes because of lawlessness. The sectarian leaders have nothing to gain by taking control other than to become a larger target and enemy to others. They all thrive on the instability of the situation. None of them wants a peacefull outcome. None wants an end to the violence. The fighting creates their support structure and an end to that would be cause their influence to fade.
Last edited by KnowMeByTrailOfDead (2007-05-09 10:46:50)
haha to be a conspiracist for a minute; So CameronPoe how many times has this page been read by someone from a government agency just because they love Bf2s? is your phone bugged because said government agents just lurve the sound of your voice? and are those men in the black van outside your window really just here to give a free mystery tour to another country because of that competition you entered that you don't quite remember?
send me a postcard
send me a postcard
sfarrar33 wrote:
haha to be a conspiracist for a minute; So CameronPoe how many times has this page been read by someone from a government agency just because they love Bf2s? is your phone bugged because said government agents just lurve the sound of your voice? and are those men in the black van outside your window really just here to give a free mystery tour to another country because of that competition you entered that you don't quite remember?
send me a postcard
That's me on the left in the fetching orange number.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-09 16:49:37)
No shit!usmarine2007 wrote:
One question, why were you parents watching the English version of Al Jazeera?