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2007-05-10 18:19:25
Nate_32
Member
+3|7000|Nambe, New Mexico
Well,

I am an oldschool noob that only plays BF2, besides a little SF when I got it as a gift. (By this time the EA expansion machine was in full swing and I swore off their shovelware junk)

I am just surprised at all the infantry only servers now. There are so many games out that feature infantry only and are so much better. Counter-Strike (both source and original) and America's Army come to mind. I play BF2 for the vehicles, it surprises me that there is no way to filter out the IO servers.

Yes, I am whining, and BF2 infantry battles are still kind of fun in their own right, but it seems kind of silly to allow filtering of servers that allow vehicles, but not the ones that forbid them. Then again, the BF2 interface has never won any praises from anyone.

In summation: I am a little saddened that the interface for the game I payed half as much for(CS:S) has an interface 5x as good, and is influencing the gaming to try to compare with it, when I play BF2 to escape the infantry only thing. (Obviously, the respawn thing is another point, but I won't get into that)

So go ahead and flame me about how the game is old, yadda, yadda, I am just curious if anyone else merely plays BF2 for the vehicles, and much better games for infantry only battles? (Don't forget to bring my crummy stats into the argument)
2007-05-11 00:55:56
~FuzZz~
.yag era uoy fi siht deaR
+422|6589|Orrstrayleea
I play on IO servers, not all the time but when i feel like getting a badge or ribbon, i actualy prefer them because you dont get raped by armor, or TK'd when trying to get in the armoured veichles.
2007-05-11 00:59:06
Bullet_Force
Member
+3|6464|Australia
Sadly infantry only mode replaces armor campers with foot campers. Instead of a tank at the spawn you got a pkm or an AK. I tend to play it a bit though mainly cause it requires a touch more skill then playing the same map with vehicles (especially the city maps) where the armor users almost always dominate the scoreboards.
2007-05-11 00:59:50
TimmmmaaaaH
Damn, I... had something for this
+725|6706|Brisbane, Australia

I went through an IO phase, mainly cause they were the majority of servers. But I have been playing a bit of Daquing,Kubra and Op. clean sweep and they are actually good maps when not getting raped by planes.....I managed to be top 5 without touching an aircraft/helo. But maps like karkand are better IO i think. Jalalabad and Sharqi are better non-IO.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/5e6a35c97adb20771c7b713312c0307c23a7a36a.png
2007-05-11 01:00:25
weasel_thingo
Member
+74|6593
i agree, i think the filter should have the option of yes no or both to all the options
or something like that
2007-05-11 01:39:48
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|7003|Somewhere near a shrub or rock
IO levels the playing field.

Good team vs crap = if your unlucky and get landed at crap player central in full game, the good team steal all your gear and your entire team will get taken apart hardcore. Usually made worse due to your noobs hijacking your key assets e.g. armour / planes and either patroling at 2000 feet trying to work out which way is up or jumping out of your armour as a medic drops C4 medpacks on the bonnet....
It works both ways but i have left alone players of an opposing team as its clear they are incapable of doing squat to my team if i shoot them down / blow them up and its possible they may be put off or loose the E key race to the full bird colonel jetwhore stood patiently waiting for his J10 if they do die.
Also Full games, people care more about getting "their" plane / tank / apc than playing the game. If you get a shite team it can mean all players stood around waiting their turn / TK war.

Where is the fun in that?

IO
Refered to as easy mode!
I dont agree to the statement but it does get across the limited risk of a rear ending with no lubricant that IO represents.
IO you still get camped etc but you can break out and create a fighting chance in most games. Its up to other players to dominate you, not control of assets doing it for them!

Kooda
2007-05-11 01:53:42
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
I think your right about the interface but maybe the creators didn't envision IO becoming so popular idk. But Bf2s is much better than CS imo.

(Don't forget to bring my crummy stats into the argument)

The first thing I did was check for your stats but didn't see any. Still I assumed they were crummy since most people who complain about IO are either vehicle whores or have shitty stats.
2007-05-11 02:16:36
AmbassadorofPain
Member
+34|6924|Devil's Perch

Nate_32 wrote:

I am just surprised at all the infantry only servers now. There are so many games out that feature infantry only and are so much better. Counter-Strike (both source and original) and America's Army come to mind.
Bad comparison. Totally. They're three different games that barely have more in common than the fact you're supposed to make a mouse cursor match with a bunch of pixels and press LMB.
CS and CS:S are by far more arcade-style while America's Army is extremely slow-paced and strategic.
BF2 stands somewhere between these, promoting teamwork by far more than the CS games ever could and punishing lone-wolfing by far less than AA ever would.
BF2 beats these two, because it suits your preferred playing style. It's not that much you who has to adapt to certain limitations the game enforces on you.

If you want to compare anything, compare PR and AA, yet again I would decide against AA because PR feels and looks a lot better.
Proud member of a dead community.
2007-05-11 03:03:51
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6948|Disaster Free Zone

S.J.N.P.0717 wrote:

The first thing I did was check for your stats but didn't see any. Still I assumed they were crummy since most people who complain about IO are either vehicle whores or have shitty stats.
And most people who play IO have good stats because its akin to padding.
2007-05-11 03:33:11
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|6833|England

DrunkFace wrote:

S.J.N.P.0717 wrote:

The first thing I did was check for your stats but didn't see any. Still I assumed they were crummy since most people who complain about IO are either vehicle whores or have shitty stats.
And most people who play IO have good stats because its akin to padding.
Not quite padding, but thats true. Roaming around reviving people all the time = massive SPM.
Whoring a tank on city maps = massive KDR.

And I rate people down for that in the "rate the stats thread". Anybody can earn a 5KDR in a tank on city maps. Do that on a big map vs enemy armour, choppers and jets and its a whole new ballgame requiring a lot more skill. Especially as you also use them for flag capping *gasp*
Dont get me wrong, I play my share of IO, but only on select maps: mostly the SF ones as the design and layout of the maps suits both vehicle and IO modes perfectly. MassD and Surge are my two favourites for IO.

At the end of the day, it depends if you play the game "for the game" or for the points. If you are in it for the points, you play karkfuck. Maybe whorelord. Yes thats stereotypical, but thats the general image. I know some people adore these maps, but I personally think that that is down to the fact that they dont know how to play the rest of the game.

What I like is that nobody can get the General ranks without having spent time in choppers, tanks, jets and AA so, if you are in it for the points - you want rank. Which means you have to play the FULL game.
Although most people end up whoring the Mi28 on Sharqi, J10 on Wake and a tank on karkfuck. Which lets face it, is not exactly hard.

I mean, if I were to ask everyone to, off the top of their heads, name all the flags on a map like FuShe - most people couldnt. But Karkand? Everybody can.

And yes, there should be a filter for IO and non IO servers.
2007-05-11 03:33:38
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
How's it akin to padding?

Please answer this at least


Stat padding is takes no skill whatsoever and is completely stupid. No idiot can just jump on IO and own like no idiot can jump on vehicle and own. You think everyone can just get on an IO and get good stats? Most people who vehicle whore would suck at IO and most people would IO would suck at vehicle whoring.  With each you have to practice and over time get better and better. Stat padding is cheating, in reality being in a vehicle is close to cheating since you have an unfair advantage over most the people your going to kill that's why vehicle k:d are almost always high. You have to be Engineer, Anti-Tank or Special Ops and for the most part Engineer and Special Ops can only be used defensively. With helicopters and planes it's even worse since only Anti-Tank is barely usably against them. Anyone else is screwed and have to hide or stay in a stationary gun to at most and most of the time just damage it unless they want to die. But still "And most people who play IO have good stats because its akin to padding." is just bullshit it's nowhere near it unless your talking about actually stat padders. At least you didn't disagree with my remark "since most people who complain about IO are either vehicle whores or have shitty stats."
2007-05-11 03:34:42
ScoutStrike
Member
+37|6520
I played a lot of IO lately, mainly because two of my friends just bought the game. Somehow they can't cope with tanks/apcs/jets blowing them up while they're sniping. I prefer vehicle servers though.

But we definately need a filter for vehicle-only servers! It's goddamn impossible to find a city map server that isn't IO.
2007-05-11 03:36:22
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6939|Colorado
I like both types of play & the option to play either, its a quick look to see if they allow vehicles or not so whats the problem?
2007-05-11 03:45:23
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
This game is fun that's why people play. An aspect that makes it even better is you can track your stats and your progress as you become better. Alright when I first played I played almost every single other map for the longest time and then I played Karkand once and stuck with it. This was when I hardly ever was in armor I basically forgot about it everytime I played at least spawning at our back spot and getting it while playing and it still was fun and I averaged less 30 points a game. I thought you were after me but it seems you dislike Karkand with vehicles. So unless you talking about IO I'm  basically agreeing with you.
2007-05-11 03:47:15
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
Somehow they can't cope with tanks/apcs/jets blowing them up while they're sniping

This is one reason why IO is big. Now if everyone had a tank or whatever it'd be more balanced and fair.
2007-05-11 03:52:02
Stormscythe
Aiming for the head
+88|6816|EUtopia | Austria
Why is CS so much better? Because of the fact that you can miss a head by a mile and still get a headshot registered?
Also, Conquest mode really brings some fun (and is much more interesting than the one of DoD:S for example).
2007-05-11 04:13:51
ScoutStrike
Member
+37|6520

TrollmeaT wrote:

I like both types of play & the option to play either, its a quick look to see if they allow vehicles or not so whats the problem?
Well it takes about a second before you get the server info when you click on it. Manually checking the list gets old after a while. Besides, you would expect that if you uncheck the 'No Vehicles' checkbox, it would actually give you the servers *with* vehicles. But nooo, it gives both vehicle and IO servers. Go EA.
2007-05-11 04:23:49
AmbassadorofPain
Member
+34|6924|Devil's Perch

ScoutStrike wrote:

But we definately need a filter for vehicle-only servers! It's goddamn impossible to find a city map server that isn't IO.
TV2 and Battlefield Gotland for Europe. Both have at least or about 10 servers running, some multimap, some (selected) citymaps only, some IO and some with vehicles. They're located in Norway and Sweden, but unless you're using a carrier pigeon as ISP, you should ping reasonable from the Netherlands.

Snake wrote:

I mean, if I were to ask everyone to, off the top of their heads, name all the flags on a map like FuShe - most people couldnt. But Karkand? Everybody can.
Good point, to a certain extent. I know where most of the spawn points are (as well as on Daqing or Dalian and even Dragon Valley), which vehicles spawn etc. but indeed couldn't come up with the names of most flags. Could be because I barely ever played those maps as tactical as I did the city maps... on the larger maps, it's usually just run from one flag to next, whereas on city maps, you might pick one that's a little farther away.
Proud member of a dead community.
2007-05-11 04:25:26
AmbassadorofPain
Member
+34|6924|Devil's Perch

ScoutStrike wrote:

TrollmeaT wrote:

I like both types of play & the option to play either, its a quick look to see if they allow vehicles or not so whats the problem?
Well it takes about a second before you get the server info when you click on it. Manually checking the list gets old after a while. Besides, you would expect that if you uncheck the 'No Vehicles' checkbox, it would actually give you the servers *with* vehicles. But nooo, it gives both vehicle and IO servers. Go EA.
It's the same for "Ranked servers" or "Same Mod". It's at least a consistent approach.
Proud member of a dead community.
2007-05-11 04:28:55
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6948|Disaster Free Zone

S.J.N.P.0717 wrote:

How's it akin to padding?

Please answer this at least


Stat padding is takes no skill whatsoever and is completely stupid. No idiot can just jump on IO and own like no idiot can jump on vehicle and own. You think everyone can just get on an IO and get good stats? Most people who vehicle whore would suck at IO and most people would IO would suck at vehicle whoring.  With each you have to practice and over time get better and better. Stat padding is cheating, in reality being in a vehicle is close to cheating since you have an unfair advantage over most the people your going to kill that's why vehicle k:d are almost always high. You have to be Engineer, Anti-Tank or Special Ops and for the most part Engineer and Special Ops can only be used defensively. With helicopters and planes it's even worse since only Anti-Tank is barely usably against them. Anyone else is screwed and have to hide or stay in a stationary gun to at most and most of the time just damage it unless they want to die. But still "And most people who play IO have good stats because its akin to padding." is just bullshit it's nowhere near it unless your talking about actually stat padders. At least you didn't disagree with my remark "since most people who complain about IO are either vehicle whores or have shitty stats."
Why is IO akin to padding? It comes down to the fact that anyone can get a good SPM and KDR in IO without having any skill at all. Not saying they all will, but I'm sure everyones infantry stats improve without the need to actually improve. As your stats are improving without any gained skill you are effectively padding. I don't disagree with your statement because everyone gets good stats in IO servers. Yet only the 'good' players will do well in normal servers.

You say how using a vehicle is like cheating because you have an unfair advantage, yet say nothing about medics advantage over AT in IO. Exactly the same thing applies. Its your choice of which kit you use. If you want to be so close minded to only take medic/sniper/support you deserve to get killed... over and over again. Maybe use AT for what its for. Get in a Tow, there are many things to do to take out the so called 'vehicle whores'. And as a valued member of your team you should be targeting them. The only examples of vehicles being over powered are the J-10s on Wake and Dalian. Every other map, nothing can dominate unless the team they are playing against is useless, and by team I don't mean team as a whole unit, I mean every single player is retarded.

Snake wrote:

Not quite padding, but thats true. Roaming around reviving people all the time = massive SPM.
Whoring a tank on city maps = massive KDR.
Reviving also = massive KDR.
And Whoring a tank is only an possible against a very bad (selfish/stubborn/stupid... insert any number of reasons) team.

Well gtg, will add to this later.... may as well start flaming what I got here now tho.

Last edited by DrunkFace (2007-05-11 04:29:41)

2007-05-11 04:32:48
ScoutStrike
Member
+37|6520

AmbassadorofPain wrote:

ScoutStrike wrote:

Well it takes about a second before you get the server info when you click on it. Manually checking the list gets old after a while. Besides, you would expect that if you uncheck the 'No Vehicles' checkbox, it would actually give you the servers *with* vehicles. But nooo, it gives both vehicle and IO servers. Go EA.
It's the same for "Ranked servers" or "Same Mod". It's at least a consistent approach.
Hmm, I didn't actually notice that. I guess it is. Thanks for the tip btw.
2007-05-11 13:27:40
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
What do you consider a high k:d and spm? Most people who play IO have less than 2spm and less than  1:1 k:d. Do you think that's good? The score can range from 400-200 to the top player to 10-40 to the lowest and both of them won't be alone in that area. That's just fucking stupid to say anyone can jump on an IO server and have major stats.

"I don't disagree with your statement because everyone gets good stats in IO servers."

Haha at least you didn't disagree but far from it, it takes time. I got my 15 death streak and purple heart there when I first started playing there. There is a clear gap at the end of the scores in the rounds.

"Yet only the 'good' players will do well in normal servers."

What's your definition of good players?


You say how using a vehicle is like cheating because you have an unfair advantage, yet say nothing about medics advantage over AT in IO

Haha they have the same exact chance as anyone to be medic. The kit is Anti-Tank... without any tanks it sounds pretty useless yet isn't. Plenty of people have mastered it to have as good or better spm and k:d as good medics. Plus there's teamwork so he should be near a medic to be healed and revived. He gives up the ability to heal himself and his team and to revive so he can have a 1 shot kill with the rocket and for the good people it pays off.

"If you want to be so close minded to only take medic/sniper/support you deserve to get killed"

Close minded. Medic is best kit to help your team, support is second and agressive snipers are really useful. They can 1 shot him to where he's almost dead then 1 more shot from anything and he's dead. Or he's already damaged a little and then he's dead. That's why these classes when used right have good spm and k:d

"Reviving also = massive KDR."

You have to be good to use this. You have to move fast and know where the enemies are to not get killed. One grenade where the dead body is and your dead a lot of people die from trying to revive their teammate. No noob can just revive any teammate he wants without dying. Once again it takes skill.
2007-05-11 13:34:38
RDMC
Enemy Wheelbarrow Spotted..!!
+736|6832|Area 51
Infantry Only is absolute shite and a boost to anyone's stats. Ever since IO was introduced the whole meaning of stats disappeared as there is a huge difference between IO stats and Regular BF2 stats. Next to that is, that BF2 IO is absolute crap due to the choppy gameplay (added prone delay, and bad hit regs) Next to that, the guns are NOT balanced enough to form an equal fight. AK-101 is far superiour to 90% of all the other weapons and same goes for the RPK. Set two newbies up against each other, one with the M16 and the other one with the AK-101, the MEC is most likely to win. Next to that, you have nothing to worry about, except for the other enemies and the grenades and clays they bring along. BF2 was killed after the introduction of Infantry Only. Sure, its fun from time to time, I have to say that, I have played IO for about 300 hours, but its such a rip off of what used to be a wonderfull game. Nowadays its damn hard to find a decent server with DOESN'T run Infantry Only.

IMO, Infantry Only should never have been introduced in the first place as it completely killed the way Battlefield 2 was meant to be played.

What IO just did, was replace the raping tanks with infantry and grenades, which is totally weak as  you have no chance of escape, as in at first you could possible have a Aircraft come in and bust the shit out of a tank or have a chopper come in and save the day (That is for all the people that do not play karkand)

EDIT: Typo's

/rant

Last edited by RDMC(2) (2007-05-11 13:37:33)

2007-05-11 13:58:18
JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|6544|Mo Val, Cali
"Next to that is, that BF2 IO is absolute crap due to the choppy gameplay (added prone delay, and bad hit regs)"

Haven't heard anyone complain about this, seems just fine when I or anyone I know or seen play.


"Ever since IO was introduced the whole meaning of stats disappeared
"
What did stats mean before? And what do they mean now?


"as there is a huge difference between IO stats and Regular BF2 stats"

Since everyone's on a equal playing field, guy vs guy. Not guy vs guy in tank.

"Next to that, the guns are NOT balanced enough to form an equal fight. AK-101 is far superiour to 90% of all the other weapons and same goes for the RPK."

I prefer the L85A1 over the ak101 and do quite well with it. Just depends on what your good with. If there was some outrageous gun that just obviously owns any thing and everything with no skill required it would be fixed.


"Set two newbies up against each other, one with the M16 and the other one with the AK-101"

I would think this would have more to do with the 3 round burst against automatic.

"the MEC is most likely to win"

If the U.S. isn't that good. But in my experience my ratio is 1.75 for usmc and 1.73 for mec

"Next to that, you have nothing to worry about, except for the other enemies and the grenades and clays they bring along."

Obviosuly there's going to be enemies grenades and claymores in any server. You don't want to die practice at it. Kill the other guy before he kills you. Watch all around you for grenades. Don't go around corners blindly. Don't bitch because you suck and die a lot there.


"BF2 was killed after the introduction of Infantry Only."

It added more possibilites and drew more interest to it. You can still play vehicles if you prefer or IO your choice.


"I have played IO for about 300 hours, but its such a rip off of what used to be a wonderfull game."

How's it a rip off?


"Nowadays its damn hard to find a decent server with DOESN'T run Infantry Only. "

So obviously more people like IO better than vehicle. When that happens people who have servers, what do you server do you think they'll have most of the time?

"IMO, Infantry Only should never have been introduced in the first place as it completely killed the way Battlefield 2 was meant to be played."

IMO IO makes it more realistic. In Iraq there are gun fights in the street like an IO. It's hardly where each side has a tank or apc or helicopter or jet. Also in the jungles of Vietnam.
2007-05-11 16:19:11
AmbassadorofPain
Member
+34|6924|Devil's Perch

RDMC(2) wrote:

IMO, Infantry Only should never have been introduced in the first place as it completely killed the way Battlefield 2 was meant to be played.
Which included
- prone spamming / dolphin diving
- shooting while jumping
- C4 chucking
- the blackhawk with a good crew being a flying fortress that could only be taken down by C4 ramming, several tanks and apcs hunting it or a bunch of vehicle .50 cals combined
- etc. etc.

What *exactly* is the way BF2 was ment to be played? I keep hearing pretty much that phrase over and over again, but so far I haven't heard any somewhat valid or reasonable explanation for that. All people that used this statement so far were jet whores (who wouldn't accept that there's just not enough jets for everyone usually and that some don't tk for vehicles or, respectively, can't accept that others would get good kdrs when competing with other ground pounders instead of jets and bombers), helo whores (same) and people who spent 1250 of 1450 total playing time camping on Karkand in the M1A1.

The phrase I like most second only to the one just mentioned is "Infantry Only doesn't take any skill". Again, it usually comes from that kind of people who think there's anything 1337 about bombing men with boomsticks on the ground at 900 mph or doing a chopper-rape session on certain SF or vanilla maps, well knowing that the vast majority of pubbers will not coordinate efforts enough to place 2 vehicles with .50 cals to shoot the chopper down or, if that happened, some other guy will for sure hop in the drivers seat and drive away.

A few other things that are or were included in the game yet for sure weren't ment that way:
- It shouldn't have been possible to flip boats over to repair them or drive vehicles into water so they take damage and do the same
- It shouldn't have been possible to get into certain buildings, because if so, DICE would have given them openable doors
- The red aka dead zone pretty sure was not intended to work as a noob-ejector for solo'ers or people who want to fly with someone else instead of the gunner who actually got in
- etc.

These two lists could be continued endlessly.

Don't get me wrong: I've had my fun back in the days before IO, too, and still play regular vanilla, not least because I'm starting to discover my love for attack choppers. Yet I can not see why that would be more the way "BF2 was ment to be". Ever since, DICE responded - as good as possible, which, in some case, was far from good of course - to public demand by nerfing (i.e. the blackhawk or the dolphin dive) stuff, cutting back badge and ribbon requirements or implementing new features.
After all, there used to be IO servers before that game mode had been implemented by DICE - it's been considered statspadding and servers could lose their rank status for enforcing a "no vehicles policy".

Quite obviously, it is the players who decide(d) how BF2 is ment to be played.

In the end, BF2 is ment to be fun and that is absolutely all BF2 is ment to be.

Once again, I apologize for talking too much.

Last edited by AmbassadorofPain (2007-05-11 16:20:51)

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