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2007-05-14 14:06:55
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7257|Nårvei

By Eric Silver in Jerusalem
Published: 14 May 2007

Press the link for the hole story from the Independent, finally some sort of pressure is put on Israel from other sources than Norway, welcome after .....

Ambassadors from European Union states are to boycott celebrations of the 40th anniversary of Israel's conquest of Arab East Jerusalem this week - in the opening shot of what promises to be a challenging summer for Israeli diplomacy.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2007-05-14 15:28:38
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

Good!

It's a step in the right direction. More pressure on Israel can only be a good thing.
2007-05-14 16:28:36
san4
The Mas
+311|7135|NYC, a place to live
Yes, pressure on Israel is very important for the achievement of peace in the region. With enough pressure, perhaps Israel will finally be reasonable and agree to discuss Hamas' offer that Israel not exist.
2007-05-14 16:48:27
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

san4 wrote:

Yes, pressure on Israel is very important for the achievement of peace in the region. With enough pressure, perhaps Israel will finally be reasonable and agree to discuss Hamas' offer that Israel not exist.
Ah, yet another misguided soul who has no idea what they are talking about.

Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that international pressure on Israel is the only chance for peace within the two state solution. A solution which I find abhorent. I would much rather Israel did not exist, not in the manner in which you may think, but as a single jewish/arab state with no legal distinction between different religions and ethnicities - though I fully accept this is not a viable solution.
2007-05-14 16:53:11
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003
I really wish the EU would cut ALL links with that insipid regime. Celebrating stealing land and dispossessing people of their homes and farms. Wow. What a bunch of cunts. They forgot the holocaust quickly enough didn't they! What was it - 'Never Again' - well looks like 'Never' lasted about 3-4 years.
2007-05-14 17:06:29
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

The Israeli cabinet, which met yesterday in the Menachem Begin Heritage Centre overlooking the Old City, approved a 5.75 billion-shekel (£7m) package designed to strengthen Israel's hold on Jerusalem over the next five years.
I don't know which part of that statement sickens me more, the fact that Begin (who is filthy terrorist scum) has fancy buildings named after him, or the fact that the Israelis, despite statements by members of the Knesset to the contrary, are strengthening their position in Jerusalem.

Here is one such statement by Yossi Beilin (of the Knesset):
There are dreams on both sides, Israelis dream about a greater Israel, about a Jerusalem united, about sovreignty over the temple mount, al-ḥaram al-qudsī ash-sharīf, but they know that eventually al-ḥaram al-qudsī ash-sharīf will be under Palestinian sovreignty, if they want peace.
He's not the only one who thinks so:
Mohammed Baradeh, an Arab member of the Israeli parliament, protested: "Holding the government meeting across from the walls of the Old City, celebrating the occupation, is a provocation. There will be no peace without two capital cities in Jerusalem."
Which is absolutely true. Unless of course they were one state undivided by race and religion. But that's just a dream.
2007-05-14 19:15:34
san4
The Mas
+311|7135|NYC, a place to live

Bertster7 wrote:

san4 wrote:

Yes, pressure on Israel is very important for the achievement of peace in the region. With enough pressure, perhaps Israel will finally be reasonable and agree to discuss Hamas' offer that Israel not exist.
Ah, yet another misguided soul who has no idea what they are talking about.

Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that international pressure on Israel is the only chance for peace within the two state solution. A solution which I find abhorent. I would much rather Israel did not exist, not in the manner in which you may think, but as a single jewish/arab state with no legal distinction between different religions and ethnicities - though I fully accept this is not a viable solution.
Please enlighten me. Are you saying Hamas supports a two-state solution (as you concede, the only workable solution)?
2007-05-14 19:35:09
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

san4 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

san4 wrote:

Yes, pressure on Israel is very important for the achievement of peace in the region. With enough pressure, perhaps Israel will finally be reasonable and agree to discuss Hamas' offer that Israel not exist.
Ah, yet another misguided soul who has no idea what they are talking about.

Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that international pressure on Israel is the only chance for peace within the two state solution. A solution which I find abhorent. I would much rather Israel did not exist, not in the manner in which you may think, but as a single jewish/arab state with no legal distinction between different religions and ethnicities - though I fully accept this is not a viable solution.
Please enlighten me. Are you saying Hamas supports a two-state solution (as you concede, the only workable solution)?
It depends how you define Hamas. Under the original terms of the Hamas charter, no, Hamas do not support a two-state solution. The new line taken by the Hamas government is very different and far more reasonable. Hamas have progressed significantly, much like Hezbollah, but not quite to the same extent - which is understandable since Lebanese occupation ended some time ago and Palestinian occupation continues.

Ismail Haniyeh wrote:

The answer is to let Israel say it will recognize a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, release the prisoners, and recognize the rights of the refugees to return to Palestine. Hamas will have a position if this occurs.
There are some within the Hamas government that believe the terms of the Taba summit are, at least close to being, acceptable (Atef Udwan for one). The Taba summit was close to finding a solution, but then the talks collapsed. This is often attributed to the change in US leadership at that time, which supports the theory that added pressure on Israel will bring a peaceful solution to this conflict.
2007-05-14 19:38:01
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|7073|Sea to globally-cooled sea
This bertster character is a real dickhead, isn't he.
2007-05-14 19:41:10
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

G3|Genius wrote:

This bertster character is a real dickhead, isn't he.
Why's that?

Because I actually know the facts about the conflict and can show that your deluded views make very little sense?

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-05-14 20:10:57)

2007-05-14 21:52:54
san4
The Mas
+311|7135|NYC, a place to live

Bertster7 wrote:

san4 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Ah, yet another misguided soul who has no idea what they are talking about.

Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that international pressure on Israel is the only chance for peace within the two state solution. A solution which I find abhorent. I would much rather Israel did not exist, not in the manner in which you may think, but as a single jewish/arab state with no legal distinction between different religions and ethnicities - though I fully accept this is not a viable solution.
Please enlighten me. Are you saying Hamas supports a two-state solution (as you concede, the only workable solution)?
It depends how you define Hamas. Under the original terms of the Hamas charter, no, Hamas do not support a two-state solution. The new line taken by the Hamas government is very different and far more reasonable. Hamas have progressed significantly, much like Hezbollah, but not quite to the same extent - which is understandable since Lebanese occupation ended some time ago and Palestinian occupation continues.

Ismail Haniyeh wrote:

The answer is to let Israel say it will recognize a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, release the prisoners, and recognize the rights of the refugees to return to Palestine. Hamas will have a position if this occurs.
There are some within the Hamas government that believe the terms of the Taba summit are, at least close to being, acceptable (Atef Udwan for one). The Taba summit was close to finding a solution, but then the talks collapsed. This is often attributed to the change in US leadership at that time, which supports the theory that added pressure on Israel will bring a peaceful solution to this conflict.
I will believe it when they do more than whisper it.

Edit: And your point actually supports mine: pressure on Israel--which has repeatedly, formally and openly endorsed a two-state solution for decades--is less important than pressure on those who have formally declared that it is God's work to wipe Israel off the map but in the last few years have had vague, informal, mixed thoughts. Isn't that where the pressure should be applied--to strengthen the minority of Hamas members who are starting to wake up to the reality of a two-state solution?

Last edited by san4 (2007-05-15 07:38:31)

 

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