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2007-05-15 19:29:55
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
You're correct, Havok.  The passage you quoted is in Matthew and in it a young wealthy man approached Jesus and asked what good thing he had to do to gain eternal life.  First problem: he thought he could earn eternal life by doing good works.  His focus was on his own ability rather than faith and belief.  Jesus recognized this, which is why He also told the wealthy young man to obey the commandments, knowing he'd check that off his list.  Sure enough, the young man replied he had kept them all from his youth.  However, when Jesus asked him to give up his wealth, the young man walked away sad.  Through this conversation Jesus illustrated a crucial point: gaining eternal life is not something gained by anything we could ever do, instead it is by faith and belief.   The young man’s primary focus in the end was his riches, not his faith, and that was his problem.  He was focused on doing on the outside instead of an internal change of heart.   

I don’t believe the passage means that money and wealth is evil.  Both are fine when in their proper perspective.  However, if I focus my whole existence on money and wealth, I could easily ignore God and lose my primary focus on God.   

True followers of Christ are not judged by their material possessions or the lack thereof, so I'm a bit puzzled why you feel true followers must not have money.  Private schools cost money because they are not funded by the government.  Hence the parents who choose to send their children must pay the entire cost.  My father made about 20K per year and we attended a private Christian school.  Don't believe all the stereotypes.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-05-15 19:30:48)

2007-05-15 19:32:17
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6743|Bloomington Indiana
im a pagan (druid to be exact).
nature is my god.
ive been this way since the age of 13-14ish.
2007-05-15 19:42:25
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6727

Schwarzelungen wrote:

im a pagan (druid to be exact).
nature is my god.
ive been this way since the age of 13-14ish.
I have to say it before anyone else does.

Funny, you don't look Druish.

*runs and hides*
2007-05-15 20:03:51
Darkfire
Helping you help yourself
+34|6925| Texas

Stingray24 wrote:

You're correct, Havok.  The passage you quoted is in Matthew and in it a young wealthy man approached Jesus and asked what good thing he had to do to gain eternal life.  First problem: he thought he could earn eternal life by doing good works.  His focus was on his own ability rather than faith and belief.  Jesus recognized this, which is why He also told the wealthy young man to obey the commandments, knowing he'd check that off his list.  Sure enough, the young man replied he had kept them all from his youth.  However, when Jesus asked him to give up his wealth, the young man walked away sad.  Through this conversation Jesus illustrated a crucial point: gaining eternal life is not something gained by anything we could ever do, instead it is by faith and belief.   The young man’s primary focus in the end was his riches, not his faith, and that was his problem.  He was focused on doing on the outside instead of an internal change of heart.   

I don’t believe the passage means that money and wealth is evil.  Both are fine when in their proper perspective.  However, if I focus my whole existence on money and wealth, I could easily ignore God and lose my primary focus on God.   

True followers of Christ are not judged by their material possessions or the lack thereof, so I'm a bit puzzled why you feel true followers must not have money.  Private schools cost money because they are not funded by the government.  Hence the parents who choose to send their children must pay the entire cost.  My father made about 20K per year and we attended a private Christian school.  Don't believe all the stereotypes.
And on top of that, on the basic level the only thing that actually defines us as Christians is the belief in and love of our savior, Jesus Christ. While not all are bad,  "earthly" possessions don't make or define a Christian, they are just man made things that we have decided to do on our own.
2007-05-15 20:08:44
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6894|Chicago, IL
Im Lutheran

I like this branch of christianity because they accept modern science (including evolution) and are very tolerant of other religions.

I go to church occasionally (used to go every week, not anymore though).
2007-05-15 20:12:13
Belx
Member
+4|7125|New York, New York
In which religion do you place your faith?
Raised a Jew, when I got old enough to think for myself I declared myself an atheist. 

If you don't place your faith in a religion, why not?
Logically, religion makes no sense to me at all.  Science fills gaps religion does in a better way that makes sense.
2007-05-15 20:14:48
ThaReaper
Banned
+410|7087
Atheist, because God is as real as peace. The earth and humans were formed when the world started forming. Micro organisms started to grow, and after billions of years cave men started to come about and then before you know it we come along. God, can't physically live, god doesn't make things happen such as car crashes, science and physics does. Everything is science, I don't care what anyone says. Believe in your religion all you want, but god is not real. At least scientists have theories and proof about how the planet came along, but in religion you only have a bible to tell you how it happened. Also, if God created a world, why would he put dinosaurs first instead of humans? The world came long before the bible was written so there is no way that anybody would know what happened 6 billion years ago.  People say God wrote the bible, but the bible wasn't written before humans were created so there is no way could could have written the bible because he was "the first person on the earth" when in fact dinosaurs and cavemen were. I don't know if I'm getting my point across, but it is very hard to explain it. Science has theories, proof, fossils, etc. religion has the bible. So science has more proof than just a bible to back up how the world and humans came to be.

Last edited by thareaper254 (2007-05-16 20:28:47)

2007-05-15 21:14:13
AudioAtomica
Member
+53|6697

Havok wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

God doesn't control AIDS, Hunger War, Hatred. We have freewill. We control those things. God just put us here, and now we can do whatever, but we still have the responsibility to keep those thigns from happening.

Being a positive or negative person effects not only how others treat you, but how you inevitably feel about yourself, and how you treat yourself. Being positive inevtiable leads to great, positive things.
So let me show you an analogy.
If I asked you what created the universe, you'd say God.
If I asked you what created the Earth, you'd say God.
If I asked you what created humanity, you'd say God.
But if I asked you what created AIDS or influenza or TB, you'd say humanity.

Seems to me like you're proud to stand up and say your God created all the good things, but he didn't create any of the bad things.  And through the transitive property (a=b, and b=c, so a=c), I could say that God did create AIDS and influenza because even if humanity created it (which we would have had no way to do), it would mean God created it because God, according to you, created humanity.

PS: The beginnings of AIDS have nothing to do with free will.  Contracting AIDS may involve free will, but free will played no role in the creation of the virus.

Let me ask a question to all the believers in Christ.  I believe there is a passage in the Book of Matthew that says something like, "It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."  If this is true, then why do private Christian schools cost thousands of dollars when public education is free?  Seems like quite a paradox because if the families enrolled at these Christian schools were true followers of Christ, they would not have the money to enroll at such an institution.  This is an example of the main problem of most religions: hypocrisy.  What ever happened to "practice what you preach?"
I never said God did or did not create AIDS iI said "Control". Wether AIDS was created by the U.S. goverment (lawls.) or is a mutated string of some other virus I don'tknow, no one knows for sure.

I believe God created everything in the begining, and put things in motion, I do not believe he goes and listens to every individual person and controls every little thing, that's just silly. What we have today, is because of things we did yesaterday, it has nothing to do with God. AIDS is such a huge epidemic because of US, war is such a huge problem because of US. We have freewill, God doesn't start or stop such things, they're our responsibilities.

"It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."  Refers to back in the old days, Cities would have walls to keep out invaders, they would have a small door for peaseants, maybe a foot and a half wide and 5 feet tall. and they had large lavish gates for trade. But at night they would lock the gates and wouldn't open them for anything. So if you were wealthy and had lots of things with you and you arrived at the gate at night, you had to leave your belongings behind to enter the city. I'm sure you can figure out what it means for yourself.

Schwarzelungen wrote:

im a pagan (druid to be exact).
nature is my god.
ive been this way since the age of 13-14ish.
I was under the impression you had to go into studies and rituals for 25-30 years to be accepted into an actual Druid community.

Last edited by AudioAtomica (2007-05-15 21:16:32)

2007-05-15 21:22:33
UnknownRanger
Squirrels, natures little speedbump.
+610|6792|Cali
My own.
2007-05-15 21:23:15
Home
Section.80
+447|7295|Seattle, Washington, USA

AudioAtomica wrote:

In which religion do you place your faith?
Why?
Atheist/Agnostic

If you don't place your faith in a religion, why not?
Religion can not be proven, so to me a better question would be, why should I believe? At the same time, religion can not be disproven, so I don't completely subscribe to atheism. However, I tend to believe that religion is just a very effective method of social control. Can't keep your population from killing and stealing? Don't threaten with jail or execution; try the new eternal hell method! At the same time, people want to believe in religion because it gives them a sense of security; they are guaranteed an afterlife. If there is a god, I would hope that he/she/it would judge me on my contributive lifestyle rather than my faith. And even if I did believe in a greater being, I would not worship through any specific religion because they all exploit the 'word of god' in some way or another.

For how long have you been apart of your current religion?
Probably since I was 13.

Do you go to worship?
No, never have.

What do you do to worship? (Pray, pilgrimage etc)
Don't.

Last edited by Homeschtar (2007-05-15 21:27:01)

2007-05-15 21:24:26
AudioAtomica
Member
+53|6697
Alright I'm noticing alot of peopel saying "There's no proof! So I'm an athiest!"

Religion, and God aren't about "proof". God is a figure in which someone places their BELIEFS, they're FAITH.

Besides (to my knowledge) We don't have time machines so we can't go back and PROVE anything like evolution happened. All we have is logic, and theories that makes sense, and other theories that make more sense. We do NOT have proof of evolution.

You can choose to believe in evolution (as I do) just as I choose to BELIEVE there is a God. I don't try and prove evolution is real or try to prove that God is real that sin't the point of having Faith.

And Religion isn't perfect, every religion constantyl changes, atleast every year. Religion is a tool or community if you will, in which a person uses to chanel their Faith to God.

Proof, or facts or perfect scritures and teachings that never contradict aren't what Faith is about.

Faith is a way a person can improve their life, and the lives of the people around them, and sometimes even the lives of millions of people (coughMARTINLUTHERKINGJRGHANDIEINSTIENcough).

Why is everyone so quick to give up God because a book says one thing, and then says another?
2007-05-15 21:26:41
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7213|Cambridge (UK)

Homeschtar wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

In which religion do you place your faith?
Why?
Atheist/Agnostic

Code:

If you don't place your faith in a religion, why not?
Religion can not be proven, so to me a better question would be, why should I believe? At the same time, religion can not be disproven, so I don't completely subscribe to atheism. However, I tend to believe that religion is just a very effective method of social control. Can't keep your population from killing and stealing? Don't threaten with jail or execution; try the new eternal hell method! At the same time, people want to believe in religion because it gives them a sense of security; they are guaranteed an afterlife. If there is a god, I would hope that he/she/it would judge me on my contributive lifestyle rather than my faith. And even if I did believe in a greater being, I would not worship through any specific religion because they all exploit the 'word of god' in some way or another.

Code:

For how long have you been apart of your current religion?
Probably since I was 13.

Code:

Do you go to worship?
No, never have.

Code:

What do you do to worship? (Pray, pilgrimage etc)
Don't.
The tag you are looking for is the 'quote' tag...

Oh, and to answer the thread question: Jedi.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-05-15 21:27:01)

2007-05-15 21:29:16
Home
Section.80
+447|7295|Seattle, Washington, USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

The tag you are looking for is the 'quote' tag...

Oh, and to answer the thread question: Jedi.
Yeah, I know, I just forgot that the code tag messes it up like that. I rarely use it.

Last edited by Homeschtar (2007-05-15 21:29:33)

2007-05-15 23:07:11
herrr_smity
Member
+156|7075|space command ur anus
i am a very conservative scientologist. all glory be to Xenu
2007-05-16 00:09:20
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6997|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

Stingray24 wrote:

Which religion? 
Christianity.  Though my faith is in Jesus Christ, not the church or any human leader. 

Why? 
Christianity is the only religion that offers salvation freely to anyone who believes.  My studies have answered my questions about my beliefs and I have found the Bible to be a solid source of truth.     

If you don’t place your faith in a religion, why not?
Faith in God is much more meaningful than trying to follow a list of man-made rules.      

How long? 
21 years

Do you go to worship? 
Yes

What do you do to worship? 
Pray, sing, and study the teachings of the Bible.  I believe following the teachings of Jesus is the highest form of worship.
I think facing the truth is more honest.  And does your 2nd line there mean you don't follow the law?
2007-05-16 10:46:10
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
I do follow the law.  In my attempt to keep it short, perhaps my statement was unclear.  What I was trying to say is there is a large contrast between man-made religious rules/rituals and true faith.  “Rules for the sake of rules”, going through the motions, etc etc is not meaningful to me.       

Not sure you’re going with “facing the truth is more honest”.
2007-05-16 10:57:05
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7189|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

Stingray24 wrote:

You're correct, Havok.  The passage you quoted is in Matthew and in it a young wealthy man approached Jesus and asked what good thing he had to do to gain eternal life.  First problem: he thought he could earn eternal life by doing good works.  His focus was on his own ability rather than faith and belief.  Jesus recognized this, which is why He also told the wealthy young man to obey the commandments, knowing he'd check that off his list.  Sure enough, the young man replied he had kept them all from his youth.  However, when Jesus asked him to give up his wealth, the young man walked away sad.  Through this conversation Jesus illustrated a crucial point: gaining eternal life is not something gained by anything we could ever do, instead it is by faith and belief.   The young man’s primary focus in the end was his riches, not his faith, and that was his problem.  He was focused on doing on the outside instead of an internal change of heart.   

I don’t believe the passage means that money and wealth is evil.  Both are fine when in their proper perspective.  However, if I focus my whole existence on money and wealth, I could easily ignore God and lose my primary focus on God.   

True followers of Christ are not judged by their material possessions or the lack thereof, so I'm a bit puzzled why you feel true followers must not have money.  Private schools cost money because they are not funded by the government.  Hence the parents who choose to send their children must pay the entire cost.  My father made about 20K per year and we attended a private Christian school.  Don't believe all the stereotypes.
So then why do you think jesus said
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-05-16 10:58:35)

2007-05-16 11:08:08
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6899|Cambridge, UK

AudioAtomica wrote:

In which religion do you place your faith?
Atheist

AudioAtomica wrote:

If you don't place your faith in a religion, why not?
I have no beliefs in any deities.

AudioAtomica wrote:

For how long have you been apart of your current religion?
Always - never had any belief is a greater power controlling things.
2007-05-16 11:47:38
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker

IG-Calibre wrote:

So then why do you think jesus said
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
I discussed the majority of the passage in post #26, but I'll try to rephrase.  It is much easier to understand and more accurate to discuss verses in their context rather than to look at them on their own.  Jesus' disciples probably saw money as a sign of the blessing of God in their culture.  Jesus was pointing out that a love of wealth  may create temptations that many cannot resist.  I would also point out He said it would be "hard" not impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
2007-05-16 12:30:54
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091
that camel going through the eye of a needle was a mistranslation from aramaic to greek I think, and it stuck on since then. dont have a source.
2007-05-16 12:37:33
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
I've heard that, too, Gunslinger.  Supposedly it should say "rope" instead, which would still not pass through a needle.
2007-05-16 12:38:00
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|7156|Charlie One Alpha

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

I've known a few BaHa'i and they've all been uniformly decent and generally swell people. It's not my bag, but they respect me and that's all I really ask for.
Hey thanks, man. We think you're pretty decent and swell too.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
2007-05-16 12:40:53
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7290|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Atheist, the only thing that makes sense IMO.
2007-05-16 12:47:39
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK

AudioAtomica wrote:

Hurricane wrote:

1. Atheism

2. I find it quite hard to believe there is some great supreme being up there controlling everything. AIDS, hunger, war, hatred, what the fuck kind of grand benefactor lets this stuff happen? I don't care if it's "to test us", if he was a good person he wouldn't make others suffer and die like some sort of sick joke or game. And more recently, with my parents splitting up + me going through depression and other such things, I wonder why the fuck after trying to be a good person and trying to do the right things, I get slapped in the face with all this shit.

3. I've never been baptised and never had religious views instilled into me, but I think I really became atheistic around 14.

The rest are null.
God doesn't control AIDS, Hunger War, Hatred. We have freewill. We control those things. God just put us here, and now we can do whatever, but we still have the responsibility to keep those thigns from happening.

Being a positive or negative person effects not only how others treat you, but how you inevitably feel about yourself, and how you treat yourself. Being positive inevtiable leads to great, positive things.
*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*

With an all knowing god their is no such thing as freewill. It is impossible. God knows before you are born what ever action you do will be, as as an all knowing god he knows past present and future. This means your choices are already known.

Another thing to consider when looking at that is that if there is a god he must infact be evil or have morals that no human can comprehend. He lets people being born KNOWING that they will go to hell. How can anyone worship that?

This ofc only applies to the believe of an all knowing god, such as Christian god. Base on the fact that a god is the ultimate being it must be all knowing. Therefore I can happily say that this applies to ALL religions.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-16 12:48:48)

2007-05-16 12:55:28
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6737|Éire

AudioAtomica wrote:

I searched and didn't find anything, so sorry if this or something close to this has been posted before.


I've seen alot of different opinions on alot of things on this forum recently, and I'm curious as to what faith you all follow.

In which religion do you place your faith?
Why?

If you don't place your faith in a religion, why not?

For how long have you been apart of your current religion?
Do you go to worship?

What do you do to worship? (Pray, pilgrimage etc)

I've always had a thing for going to books stores for a Bukowski or something and ended up walking out with 6-7 books on various religions. I never felt I fit right with any of them, even though I understand being of a certain religion doesn't bind you to any of their beliefs perse, but I felt my connection with God should be more than half-assed. And I've recently come across The BaHa'i Faith ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith ). I'm currently looking for a local place of worship for the BaHa'i Faith, so  I can consult people of that faith to learn more about it. I also plan on becoming a Freemason, because I hear and read this and that, from conspiracies of world domination, to secret societies, to anti-christianism etc. I so I'm going to find out for myself I  guess.

Even though I'm not in a religion, I still have my morals, and Faith in God, and mankind. I've never worshiped, as in on my knees, praying, but I feel (through my own personal faith) being a positive and productive person far beyond reaches that of trying to reach God directly by praying. And in that sense, I worship damn near 24/7
All I know is that the Bahá'í people I worked with for a while were a couple of idiots! The principles of the faith seem fairly sound but it's the same as any other faith, you can either choose to believe in some sort of greater omniscient being or just choose to be content with the magnificence and awe of the universe as it is without attributing it to some sort of deity. I opt for the latter, it's too easy to just say 'God made everything' and stick to that throughout your life; I'd rather go through life living by morals that I rationally consider to be correct and just and if there is a God at the end of it all I'd hope s/he is one that does not reward ignorance and appreciates an inquisitive mind (otherwise I'm not sure I'd want a place in his heaven).

I was raised catholic and appreciate catholicism's universal concepts of right and wrong and have read a fair bit on Budhism, which has many interesting concepts but I don't believe in a God in the traditional sense and do not subscribe to any particular faith.

 

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