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2007-05-17 03:46:00
AudioAtomica
Member
+53|6697

IG-Calibre wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:


You discussed the passage and conveniently left out the killer blow so to speak! Jesus was not down with accumulated wealth, he was very keen on it being distributed to the poor, in fact, he pretty much demanded it as prerequisite to being his "follower".  It always amazes me how people see their obscene richness as being evidence of a blessing from God, yet they very conveniently forget that the "real" test is in giving it away to the poor & the consequences of failing to do so.
I left out nothing, IG-Calibre.  You are correct that if a person sees their wealth as a gift from God, by natural extension they should give to those less fortunate.  Since they’ve been blessed with material things, God does expect that they should pass it on as a demonstration of God’s love.  However, you'd be mistaken to assume that giving money is the only thing required to become a follower.  If that was true, then Jesus would have said it was impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  He did not, though, instead saying it was "hard".
i'm not saying that, you said
However, when Jesus asked him to give up his wealth, the young man walked away sad.  Through this conversation Jesus illustrated a crucial point: gaining eternal life is not something gained by anything we could ever do, instead it is by faith and belief.
Jesus does not once mention Faith, or, belief to enter the kingdom of heaven. In fact he clearly instructs:
. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 18He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself."
& to be perfect, give up material wealth and give it to the poor . It's intersting to note when they asked "which" commandments to keep, Jesus didn't reply "all of them dude" he specifically does not mention "You shall have no other gods before Me." "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain." nor does he command him to keep holy the Sabbath - that would seem to indicate to me that Jesus does not demand Faith nor belief to enter the kingdom of heaven..
+1


/win.
2007-05-17 04:58:22
buttersIRL
Member
+17|7045
I have a problem with any religion that says god is  ",a imperishable God, the creator of all things, including all the creatures and forces in the universe" and "Bahá'í teachings state that God is too great for humans to fully comprehend, or to create a complete and accurate image"

and then some guy comes along and suddenly says "bam" I've had a vision and God says we have to do something stupid like not eat meat on a friday. 

Like if God is running\looking over the whole infinite universe, quadtrillions upon gazillions (can't think of a world big enough to discribe the amount here) of galaxies and stars and planets and civilizations and people (aliens, lifeforms whatever) and he still has time to appear to 1 guy on 1 little planet and expect that guy to spread his word all over the planet.  Like if he's stuck for time why not appear to EVERYONE at once and tell them the same thing ??

Really i think you gotta look at these religions as what they are, superstitions from hundreds of years ago and the thought of a Father figure who would punish you in the afterlife if you are naughty/Evil in this one.

But i still think its important to have faith, I don't beleive that we just get born, live, die and that's it we're gone.  I'd like to think there is a purpose to all our lives and if i'm wrong I'll never know and if there is a God i'm sure he's too busy making a multi-zillion-quadtrillion-X to the power of infinity suns rise each day on every world in the cosmos and appearing in all those cornflake bowls and burritos.
2007-05-17 05:10:04
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7190|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
My next door neighbours are Bahá'í 's and more wonderfull neighbours you couldn't ever ask for.
2007-05-17 05:29:40
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*

With an all knowing god their is no such thing as freewill. It is impossible. God knows before you are born what ever action you do will be, as as an all knowing god he knows past present and future. This means your choices are already known.

Another thing to consider when looking at that is that if there is a god he must infact be evil or have morals that no human can comprehend. He lets people being born KNOWING that they will go to hell. How can anyone worship that?

This ofc only applies to the believe of an all knowing god, such as Christian god. Base on the fact that a god is the ultimate being it must be all knowing. Therefore I can happily say that this applies to ALL religions.
"*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*"

No one said anything about an 'All Knowing God".

Lawls, You should never assume anything there pal because

Assuming makes an  ASS out of U and ME.

But thanks for that, I 'lol'ed pretty hard.
You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
2007-05-17 05:30:58
_NL_Lt.EngineerFox
Big Mouth Prick
+219|6978|Golf 1.8 GTI Wolfsburg Edition
I only believe in Scania V8's :S
2007-05-17 14:41:45
AudioAtomica
Member
+53|6697

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*

With an all knowing god their is no such thing as freewill. It is impossible. God knows before you are born what ever action you do will be, as as an all knowing god he knows past present and future. This means your choices are already known.

Another thing to consider when looking at that is that if there is a god he must infact be evil or have morals that no human can comprehend. He lets people being born KNOWING that they will go to hell. How can anyone worship that?

This ofc only applies to the believe of an all knowing god, such as Christian god. Base on the fact that a god is the ultimate being it must be all knowing. Therefore I can happily say that this applies to ALL religions.
"*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*"

No one said anything about an 'All Knowing God".

Lawls, You should never assume anything there pal because

Assuming makes an  ASS out of U and ME.

But thanks for that, I 'lol'ed pretty hard.
You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
2007-05-17 14:56:52
topal63
. . .
+533|7165

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:


"*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*"

No one said anything about an 'All Knowing God".

Lawls, You should never assume anything there pal because

Assuming makes an  ASS out of U and ME.

But thanks for that, I 'lol'ed pretty hard.
You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
No specifications - right? Then he isn't a he - and not omniscient. Those are specifications. Does the not he "he" have a brain - I guess not - that's too material - too specific.

What is this God thing, your thinking of, if it is not anything specific?
2007-05-17 15:01:21
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:


"*Buzzer* WRONG! *Buzzer*"

No one said anything about an 'All Knowing God".

Lawls, You should never assume anything there pal because

Assuming makes an  ASS out of U and ME.

But thanks for that, I 'lol'ed pretty hard.
You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
2007-05-17 15:06:32
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:


You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
What about pantheistic religions?
2007-05-17 15:08:48
AudioAtomica
Member
+53|6697

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

You cant have a not all knowing god. Because by definition he wouldnt be the ultimate being thus he wouldnt be god.

God MUST be all knowing to be the ultimate being.
No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
I don't need to argue anything, the English language does it for me.

be·lief      /bɪˈlif/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bi-leef] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat. 
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief. 
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents. 
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief. 


faith      /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith. 
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith. 
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles. 
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved. 
—Idiom9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad. 


You'll find a few keywords around in those definitions such as "opinion" or "faith" or "belief" or "confidence".

God does not have to be all knowing, how do you know God didn't just create everything and sit back with a beer and go to sleep? You don't, you don't know if he needs sleep or not, or what exactly constitutes all powerful. It's all based on opinon, there for there CAN NOT be specification to what God can and cannot do, it just depends in which you believe or have faith.


So again I say...


Roflcakes.

Last edited by AudioAtomica (2007-05-17 15:09:57)

2007-05-17 15:09:57
topal63
. . .
+533|7165

Bertster7 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
What about pantheistic religions?
Same thing, more or less, actually more! There is usually a father God or source God, of which the other Gods are emanations from the source. And that all things are emanations of the source, including you, me, whatever.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-17 15:14:04)

2007-05-17 15:14:04
weamo8
Member
+50|6890|USA
Yesterday I set a cookie on my coffee table.  I knew my daughter would go after it, and she did.  Does that mean she doesnt have agency?

Edit: This is in response to post #50.

Last edited by weamo8 (2007-05-17 15:22:37)

2007-05-17 15:22:11
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK

AudioAtomica wrote:

Vilham wrote:

AudioAtomica wrote:

No he doesn't, that's just ridiculous. There aren't any specifications 'God' has to have, no matter what Belief or Faith he's from.

Roflcakes.
The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
I don't need to argue anything, the English language does it for me.

be·lief      /bɪˈlif/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bi-leef] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat. 
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief. 
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents. 
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief. 


faith      /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith. 
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith. 
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles. 
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved. 
—Idiom9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad. 


You'll find a few keywords around in those definitions such as "opinion" or "faith" or "belief" or "confidence".

God does not have to be all knowing, how do you know God didn't just create everything and sit back with a beer and go to sleep? You don't, you don't know if he needs sleep or not, or what exactly constitutes all powerful. It's all based on opinon, there for there CAN NOT be specification to what God can and cannot do, it just depends in which you believe or have faith.


So again I say.
Roflcakes.
I love the way your trying to debate against something that has been discussed by philosophers and thologians for thousands of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscient

You arent even debating god... your debating faith and belief which has nothing to do with the def of god.

God      /gɒd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[god] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, god·ded, god·ding, interjection
–noun
1.    the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2.    the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3.    (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4.    (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5.    Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6.    (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7.    (lowercase) any deified person or object.
8.    (often lowercase) Gods, Theater.
a.    the upper balcony in a theater.
b.    the spectators in this part of the balcony.
–verb (used with object)
9.    (lowercase) to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.
–interjection
10.    (used to express disappointment, disbelief, weariness, frustration, annoyance, or the like): God, do we have to listen to this nonsense?

Note where ever it takes about the being god it says SUPREME BEING. The only case where this isnt true is in polytheism where there are multiple gods thus none of them are supreme.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-17 15:23:44)

2007-05-17 15:22:43
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

topal63 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

The whole point being a god is that it is the ultimate being, that is what makes it god. Nothing can be better than it. The only way for that to be true to is to be/do everything. If you believe in a god that isnt all knowing and all powerful then you dont think very highly of your so called god.

Its the whole reasoning behind multiple believes, like the fact that God is the universe because the universe is the ultimate being.

Well done on showing two times you cant form a good counter argument rather than just "roflcakes".

Just incase you dont understand the above...

God = ultimate being.
What about pantheistic religions?
Same thing, more or less, actually more! There is usually a father God or source God, of which the other Gods are emanations from the source.
Lets look at the Greek gods (purely because I'm most familiar with them).

Zeus is the father, basically. Poseidon and Hades are his brothers whom he freed from his father's (Kronos) stomach after killing him. They divided the world between them. They were born of the even more powerful beings, the Titans. They were born from the Earth and the Sky (Gaia and Uranus).

The gods have a leader, but he is not omnipotent. Just the most powerful.

Nor is Uranus considered to be omnipotent (he was killed by his children), he was rarely even considered as an anthropomorphic deity - he was the sky and Gaia the earth.

Your definition of there always being some source, is perfectly accurate. But that's not the same as having an omnipotent creator.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-05-17 15:25:51)

2007-05-17 15:25:20
Daysniper
Member
+42|7082
Oh my god, not again.
Here are some previous religion threads:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=73259
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68853
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68779
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66299
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=65345
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=61183
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=60157
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=59288

All that happens is it deteriorates into a flame war between the religious fundamentalists and the hot-headed atheists. Enough!!!!

Winston Churchill's definition of a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Please, stop with these threads. The go nowhere for pages on end. Why will the mods not close them when they start? Consider it spam! DO SOMETHING, I BEG OF YOU!

Thank you
2007-05-17 15:27:30
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK

Bertster7 wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

What about pantheistic religions?
Same thing, more or less, actually more! There is usually a father God or source God, of which the other Gods are emanations from the source.
Lets look at the Greek gods (purely because I'm most familiar with them).

Zeus is the father, basically. Poseidon and Hades are his brothers whom he freed from his father's (Kronos) stomach after killing him. They divided the world between them. They were born of the even more powerful beings, the Titans. They were born from the Earth and the Sky (Gaia and Uranus).

The gods have a leader, but he is not omnipotent. Just the most powerful.

Nor is Uranus considered to be omnipotent (he was killed by his children), he was rarely even considered as an anthropomorphic deity - he was the sky and Gaia the earth.
That is correct. The only cases where it isnt true is in polytheistic religions. However if you think about it for a second... Zeus wasnt even the first god as far as the Greeks were concerned. Im not going to trace it back because it goes back a tad, but its safe to say at the start of the chain there was something that created everything, the supreme being.

there you go i chained it back for you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%28mythology%29

Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-17 15:29:33)

2007-05-17 15:28:12
weamo8
Member
+50|6890|USA

Daysniper wrote:

Oh my god, not again.
Here are some previous religion threads:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=73259
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68853
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68779
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66299
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=65345
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=61183
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=60157
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=59288

All that happens is it deteriorates into a flame war between the religious fundamentalists and the hot-headed atheists. Enough!!!!

Winston Churchill's definition of a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Please, stop with these threads. The go nowhere for pages on end. Why will the mods not close them when they start? Consider it spam! DO SOMETHING, I BEG OF YOU!

Thank you
I find it interesting that anyone in these forums who believes in God is a "fundamentalist."  I dont remember the last time I strapped a bomb to myself and blew up an Abortion clinic.

I dont the the Athiests are particularly hot-headed either.  This is a debate forum.

Last edited by weamo8 (2007-05-17 15:29:22)

2007-05-17 15:31:24
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

Vilham wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

topal63 wrote:


Same thing, more or less, actually more! There is usually a father God or source God, of which the other Gods are emanations from the source.
Lets look at the Greek gods (purely because I'm most familiar with them).

Zeus is the father, basically. Poseidon and Hades are his brothers whom he freed from his father's (Kronos) stomach after killing him. They divided the world between them. They were born of the even more powerful beings, the Titans. They were born from the Earth and the Sky (Gaia and Uranus).

The gods have a leader, but he is not omnipotent. Just the most powerful.

Nor is Uranus considered to be omnipotent (he was killed by his children), he was rarely even considered as an anthropomorphic deity - he was the sky and Gaia the earth.
That is correct. The only cases where it isnt true is in polytheistic religions. However if you think about it for a second... Zeus wasnt even the first god as far as the Greeks were concerned. Im not going to trace it back because it goes back a tad, but its safe to say at the start of the chain there was something that created everything, the supreme being.
But Uranus - the ultimate creator in Greek mythology - was killed by Kronos and the other titans, who ambushed him. A supreme, omnipotent, omniscient being does not get killed, bested in any way, in ambushes (or anything else for that matter).

Most early pagan type religions, don't have gods that are omnipotent, just beyond mortal reckoning in power. It makes for more interesting battles between the gods and stuff in their stories.
2007-05-17 15:31:57
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|7102|United States of America
I worship at the altar of the golden cow.
2007-05-17 15:32:11
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK
reread my post. The supreme being in Greek myth is Chaos.

Dont get me wrong I agree with you. Most of those old religions did fine for simple people but they werent fine for the Greeks and other philosophical cultures, hence Chaos and the definition of God.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-17 15:34:36)

2007-05-17 15:36:03
Daysniper
Member
+42|7082

weamo8 wrote:

Daysniper wrote:

Oh my god, not again.
Here are some previous religion threads:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=73259
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68853
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68779
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66299
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=65345
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=61183
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=60157
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=59288

All that happens is it deteriorates into a flame war between the religious fundamentalists and the hot-headed atheists. Enough!!!!

Winston Churchill's definition of a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Please, stop with these threads. The go nowhere for pages on end. Why will the mods not close them when they start? Consider it spam! DO SOMETHING, I BEG OF YOU!

Thank you
I find it interesting that anyone in these forums who believes in God is a "fundamentalist."  I dont remember the last time I strapped a bomb to myself and blew up an Abortion clinic.

I dont the the Athiests are particularly hot-headed either.  This is a debate forum.
SO maybe I exaggerated a little. Perhaps. But still, it has gotten out of hand.
Dictionary.com says that a fundamentalism is  "strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles."
So the atheists (well some of them, me included) could be fundamentalists as well. But the true point is that there are too many of these posts, everywhere! Example: on the Newegg tech forums, someone posted:

random idiot wrote:

Give thanks daily,not for what we dont have,but for what we do have.Always rememer when you think you have it bad,millions are in worser shape than you and I.JESUS is god,and not by works are we saved,only by the grace of god,and faith in jesus christ,and what he done on the cross for us,so that we may have eternal life."
"Its sad that you would joke about something so important as your savior,but then again I would not expect any thing different from a sinner,but remember jesus loves you to.He came to save the sinners,not the saints.
Oy.
2007-05-17 15:36:59
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7213|UK
If you dont like debate, dont.
2007-05-17 15:38:46
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

Vilham wrote:

reread my post. The supreme being in Greek myth is Chaos.

Dont get me wrong I agree with you. Most of those old religions did fine for simple people but they werent fine for the Greeks and other philosophical cultures, hence Chaos and the definition of God.
Chaos wasn't any sort of being.

Chaos is nothing. The void from which The creator 'gods' came. Not really a deity of any sort, merely a state of existence.
2007-05-17 15:45:11
topal63
. . .
+533|7165

Bertster7 wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

What about pantheistic religions?
Same thing, more or less, actually more! There is usually a father God or source God, of which the other Gods are emanations from the source.
Lets look at the Greek gods (purely because I'm most familiar with them).

Zeus is the father, basically. Poseidon and Hades are his brothers whom he freed from his father's (Kronos) stomach after killing him. They divided the world between them. They were born of the even more powerful beings, the Titans. They were born from the Earth and the Sky (Gaia and Uranus).

The gods have a leader, but he is not omnipotent. Just the most powerful.

Nor is Uranus considered to be omnipotent (he was killed by his children), he was rarely even considered as an anthropomorphic deity - he was the sky and Gaia the earth.

Your definition of there always being some source, is perfectly accurate. But that's not the same as having an omnipotent creator.
Yeah, but the mythology always gets redefined, re-invented in form, interpreted by the theology surrounding it.

Pantheon (of Gods) = the actual mythological parade of special divine beings.

Pantheism = everything is divine or an emanation of the source, they are one and the same Spinoza, or Einstein's type of abstract God concept.

Panentheism = the same thing as [above], but also that God abstract is transcending the emanations of forms (of the creation and all other beings in creation) as well. In this abstract concept God is the creation and part of God transcends the creation of forms (as source well for the forms we see, experience, etc).

Like Vilham said, chaos is the emanating force, if you trace it back to the source (as an idea). The emanating force/source doesn't have to be personal, a personification of anthropomorphic form to be God. Chaos ultimately as an idea originates with the Sumerian traditions.

It's an evolution of ideas over time. It's cultural transmission and inheritance. It is sometimes the de-evolution of form (in terms of myth). It is the inclusion of philosophical concepts over time. Etc.

It might be J.C. (a different J.C. - Joseph Campbell) who said, more or less that "dreams are the personal myth and myth the depersonalized dream."

Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-17 16:05:37)

2007-05-17 15:45:42
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6743|Bloomington Indiana
reading through all of these rediculous arguments is making me want to pipe bomb a puppy kennel...
FFS let is go. religion is one mans quest for himself...it shouldnt be about who he pleases on the way.
you'll never change anyones mind for them, stop trying

 

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