attacked by a rapist? i say scream at the top of the your lungs "FIRE!" or even better "ALLAH AKBAR!" the 2nd choice might actually scary away the rapist.
Exactly.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I haven't followed the threat too close, so I might've missed something. What good is an unloaded gun going to do anyone, besides look intimidating?
You know this from experience?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Who in world history has been actually shot by an unloaded gun? I keep a loaded hammerless .38 secured in a pocket. The trigger action is so stiff that nothing but a finger or careless break-dancing with keys sharing the same pocket is going to fire it.
In the Dune series, one character happened to collect and store viruses in her body as a hobby. When she was raped, she detached a few particularly choice pieces of work.agent146 wrote:
attacked by a rapist? i say scream at the top of the your lungs "FIRE!" or even better "ALLAH AKBAR!" the 2nd choice might actually scary away the rapist.
Poor Harkonnen...
Come over to www.thefiringline.com we'll argue with you all day longBubbalo wrote:
Not saying that you're a gun nut, you just don't often get a chance to argue with them. I imagine it must be pretty similar to arguing with someone like Ikarti?
Seriously, please stop by and express your opinions and read the opinions of those who reply.
Did you just describe yourself as a gun nut?
Many modern pistols have safeties incorporated into their design. All you have to do is pull the trigger. Nothing mechanical to manipulate before firing.Bubbalo wrote:
Right..................so we'll just run around with guns with safeties off. But then, if it's in a holster then the assailant has plenty of time to sneak up on you. So I guess we'll have to carry them in firing position. Which makes it real easy to do out tasks.
And surely if the attacker is going to shoot you, he's going to do it before you turn around to shoot him.
Seriously, some of the people on this forum must have met some really inept criminals.
I believe most crimes prevented with a firearm, in which no shots are fired, are not reported to the police.
The ones that are reported to the police are usually not reported by the media.
They do happen, probably more than either of us could imagine.
Check out this link, just pick a state and read some of the accounts:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
The monthly NRA magazines usually have accounts less then six months old.
Just a few for ya':
Payson Roundup, Payson, AZ, 07/01/03:
When a man came to his door asking to use a phone, an elderly Beaver Valley, Ariz., resident did not expect what would happen next. The visit suddenly turned deadly when the man pulled a knife on homeowner Ray Freisen, demanded his wallet and car keys and then tied him to a chair. Freisen was able to free himself and retrieve his gun, but not before the intruder stabbed Freisen's wife. In defense of his wife, Freisen shot the home invader several times, killing him. By the time medical personnel arrived, Annie, Freisen's wife of 53 years, had also died from her wounds.
The Arizona Daily Star, Tucson, AZ, 03/08/06:
When a man dressed in black approached a woman on the street, implied he had a gun and demanded cash, she initially tried the passive approach. Police say that although she had a concealed-carry permit and a revolver tucked away, she handed some money over and hoped the robber would leave. But when that didn't work, and fearing her life was in danger, the victim drew her revolver and pointed it at the robber, who ran away. According to a police officer, "She was in fear of her life, and she defended herself appropriately."
Arizona Daily Star, Tucson, AZ, 07/15/02:
A 22-year-old Tucson, Ariz., woman successfully fended off an intruder who jumped her as she lay sleeping in her bed. Her attacker, a convicted sex offender, had forced open a window at around 5 a.m. The woman told police that after he entered the bedroom and attacked her, she was able to grab a .38-cal. revolver she keeps under the bed and fire a shot near his head. The man fled and was later found by police in a nearby home.
Any of these could have been your wife!
Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2007-05-18 22:45:19)
Well. A .12 gauge pump has a pretty distinct sound. I have first hand testimony that the mere sound of it being racked sent an intruder out the bedroom window faster than when he enteredBubbalo wrote:
Exactly.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I haven't followed the threat too close, so I might've missed something. What good is an unloaded gun going to do anyone, besides look intimidating?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Tigger safeties are not safeties. Guns are tools, dangerous tools that are designed to be used to kill people. Kids and guns don't mix.west-phoenix-az wrote:
Many modern pistols have safeties incorporated into their design. All you have to do is pull the trigger. Nothing mechanical to manipulate before firing.Bubbalo wrote:
Right..................so we'll just run around with guns with safeties off. But then, if it's in a holster then the assailant has plenty of time to sneak up on you. So I guess we'll have to carry them in firing position. Which makes it real easy to do out tasks.
And surely if the attacker is going to shoot you, he's going to do it before you turn around to shoot him.
Seriously, some of the people on this forum must have met some really inept criminals.
I believe most crimes prevented with a firearm, in which no shots are fired, are not reported to the police.
The ones that are reported to the police are usually not reported by the media.
They do happen, probably more than either of us could imagine.
Check out this link, just pick a state and read some of the accounts:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
The monthly NRA magazines usually have accounts less then six months old.
ATG-
I haven't read the whole thread, but they do make lock boxes for guns that have a 5 finger sequence lock. You can retrieve it in a flash and have it loaded and ready in the box, but you have to know the sequence to press each finger digit. These are awesome for home protection if you have kids. I have had to retrieve my gun from a locker box in the closet because of a hit and run near my house by a drunk driver that ended up on my neighbors lawn while trying to get away. Didn't know why he was running or if armed and wasn't about to approach the vehicle unarmed. Guns can be good to get at in dangerous situations. What if a neighbor goes nuts and starts shooting up the neighborhood or something. Retrieving a unloaded gun from the attack is not practicle.
Just my $.02.
Go Hemp, oh wait it is just you.
How are trigger safeties not safeties? If you are properly trained and follow the basic firearm safety rules, the only safety needed is internal and only required if the firearm is dropped.Major_Spittle wrote:
Tigger safeties are not safeties. Guns are tools, dangerous tools that are designed to be used to kill people. Kids and guns don't mix.
Your statement is partially true:
Kids not educated in firearm safety and guns don't mix.
You can replace the "Kids" with people.
The Eddie Eagle program is excellent and should be taught to all children.
Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2007-05-18 22:54:29)
Ohh yeah, the police. LO F'n L The police are a joke. The best way to get the to your house is to dial 911, when they answer hang up and dont answer back. If the coppers are more than 10 minutes away then youre dead.LT.Victim wrote:
A small dog then?
If your really scared about your Wifes Safety..
Then just lock the kids inside and set the alarm, I mean, it shouldn't take that long for the Police to catch this guy right?
Sure like Rosie O'donallBubbalo wrote:
German Shepherd actually is actually a pretty good choice for a guard dog, but I see your point (completely missed the kids running in and out bit in the OP). Having said that, might be worth chatting to a local vet or similar about breeds known for being a bit placid. If trained properly, I'm sure it'll be fine as a guard dog and with kids so long as you make sure the kids don't harass it (in fact, there are some dogs who won't hurt kids which they view as family even if they do harass it).
Or you could hire a full time bodyguard. That'd be cool....................
About your sig. I am grateful youre a shooter, but what are you gonna shoot at when the artillery rains hell on your world? What are you going to shoot at?rdx-fx wrote:
NOT involving a large dog.. hmmm.. damn..
NOT involving teaching her how to properly use a .45?
NOT involving you taking a couple days off work?
NOT involving asking your neighbors to keep an eye on each other?
Alarm on the house?
Have her keep a closer eye on things when you're not home - at leat until things are sorted out?
Damn.. sorry to hear that, ATG.
Personally, my wife knows where the .45 is - and is former Army (expert in pistol to boot).
Someone breaks into the house, they're more likely to live if I'm home to deal with them.
Wife (alone) sees someone threatening her, or our daughters - they're not looking at good odds.
Have a plan?
SOP in my house is; Oldest person in the house deals with the threat. next in line calls 911. Everyone else gets away from the threat ASAP. (I'm older than the wife - so that simplifies the rules for the 12 year old daughter).
I grew up around firearms, it depends on the kid as much as the training. Kids do some irresponsible stuff sometimes, their brains are developing still (forum for example) and reason and consequence is developing along with that.west-phoenix-az wrote:
How are trigger safeties not safeties? If you are properly trained and follow the basic firearm rules, the only safety needed are internal and required if the firearm is dropped.Major_Spittle wrote:
Tigger safeties are not safeties. Guns are tools, dangerous tools that are designed to be used to kill people. Kids and guns don't mix.
Your statement is partially true:
Kids not educated in firearm safety and guns don't mix.
You can replace the "Kids" with people.
The Eddie Eagle program is excellent and should be taught to all children.
Trigger safeties don't really lock out the trigger from being pulled which is what typically discharges the firearm. Blocking the trigger, firing pin, or rotating the firing pin out of position is more what is need when drawing a weapon or handling it when not intending to firing. Trigger safeties are great for packing if you are a cop/soldier, but by no means are what I would rely on when passing a gun to somebody else or drawing it out of a holster/drawer.
And no, Kids aren't people well, kind of.
I'm not saying to leave guns sitting around the house. With proper training and supervision kids and guns mix just fine.
My thread. My poor thread.
Why do you think the average citizen would require a firearm with different safeties than a police officer or soldier?Major_Spittle wrote:
Trigger safeties don't really lock out the trigger from being pulled which is what typically discharges the firearm. Blocking the trigger, firing pin, or rotating the firing pin out of position is more what is need when drawing a weapon or handling it when not intending to firing. Trigger safeties are great for packing if you are a cop/soldier, but by no means are what I would rely on when passing a gun to somebody else or drawing it out of a holster/drawer.
The original safety is your brain, the second is your finger, use them.
None of the pistols I carry have a manual safety.
They are double action only or DA/SA pistols. The heavy draw of the trigger is safety enough.
I think I have made my point.ATG wrote:
My thread. My poor thread.
Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2007-05-18 23:16:52)
that you lack the ability to read or follow polite requests?
Buy a sword then.
Sounds like it's rapist hunting season, get your shottys ready everybody, lol.
Because the Average Citizen is in a different environment typically and the added safety is for the person carrying the weapon. Typically a soldier or cop is not as concerned about accidentally discharging their gun because it is not just for show as when a civilian is carrying it. Or are you a civilian crime fighter going around busting law breakers all day.west-phoenix-az wrote:
Why do you think the average citizen would require a firearm with different safeties than a police officer or soldier?Major_Spittle wrote:
Trigger safeties don't really lock out the trigger from being pulled which is what typically discharges the firearm. Blocking the trigger, firing pin, or rotating the firing pin out of position is more what is need when drawing a weapon or handling it when not intending to firing. Trigger safeties are great for packing if you are a cop/soldier, but by no means are what I would rely on when passing a gun to somebody else or drawing it out of a holster/drawer.
The original safety is your brain, the second is your finger, use them.
None of the pistols I carry have a manual safety.
They are double action only or DA/SA pistols. The heavy draw of the trigger is safety enough.I think I have made my point.ATG wrote:
My thread. My poor thread.
Yes there are Single, Double, and Double/Single action pistols. You can buy Savage rifles with trigger safeties now. They put them on so they could lighten the trigger pull and not have accidental discharge when someone just starts to put their finger on the trigger. The rifles still have safeties for when the rifle is being handled in a no fire situation, ie carrying it, not pointed at target and ready to be fired.
This is my only point.
Kids and Guns don't mix, you gotta keep 'em separated. This is subjective obviously. No all 10 year olds could be trusted to not try to get at Daddy's gun when he is at work, no matter how much training he has. This is why I suggested a lock box with a code for ATG's pistol.
Build booby traps!
And make them child proof.
And make them child proof.
Get a gravity gun and some saw blades and take out any intruders HL2 "Ravenholm" style
Yes the average citizen is in a different environment, one without backup and against an assailant(s) who believes their victim is unarmed and untrained. If you think a civilian firearm is for show you have an awful lot to learn about carrying a pistol for defense. You should never show your firearm to your assailant until you are prepared to fire it. Not so with police officers, they often introduce their firearms into scenarios that do not quite justify a deadly weapon. The police usually have a warning that they are going to be introduced to a possibly deadly situation and have help on the way, the average citizen doesn't. If anyone needs to save time on drawing and firing their weapon its the citizen, not the police or military.Major_Spittle wrote:
Because the Average Citizen is in a different environment typically and the added safety is for the person carrying the weapon. Typically a soldier or cop is not as concerned about accidentally discharging their gun because it is not just for show as when a civilian is carrying it. Or are you a civilian crime fighter going around busting law breakers all day.
Yes there are Single, Double, and Double/Single action pistols. You can buy Savage rifles with trigger safeties now. They put them on so they could lighten the trigger pull and not have accidental discharge when someone just starts to put their finger on the trigger. The rifles still have safeties for when the rifle is being handled in a no fire situation, ie carrying it, not pointed at target and ready to be fired.
This is my only point.
Kids and Guns don't mix, you gotta keep 'em separated. This is subjective obviously. No all 10 year olds could be trusted to not try to get at Daddy's gun when he is at work, no matter how much training he has. This is why I suggested a lock box with a code for ATG's pistol.
Rifles usually have safeties because they are not in a holster (which guards the trigger from accidental discharge). When carrying a rifle around, especially while hunting, you need to protect the firearm from accidental discharge, while having a cartridge in the chamber. Loading a cartridge right before firing may scare the intended target off. External mechanical safeties serve a very good purpose, but in my opinion the best pistols for self-defense do not have mechanical safeties that the operated must manipulate before firing. The reason most civilian firearms have safeties and/or a heavy trigger pull is because of liability (sue-happy lawyers and citizens blaming someone else for their mistakes).
Civilian crime fighter? No only when the crime is brought to me or mine do I feel the need to be able to "bust law breakers" as you put it. In my states you are justified in using deadly physical force if you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent someone from committing:
- Arson of an occupied structure
- First or second degree burglary
- Kidnapping
- Manslaughter
- First or second degree murder
- Sexual conduct with a minor
- Sexual assault
- Child molestation
- Armed robbery
- Aggravated assault
Arizona law says you have no duty to retreat before threatening to use or using deadly physical force under the circumstances listed above, and that you are presumed to be acting reasonably if you are acting to prevent the commission of the crimes listed. Some experts feel that the second degree burglary justification would be very difficult to defend in court. Arizona now has a law that states the prosecutor must prove that you did not fear for your life, rather than you having to prove that you did.
We have been letting criminals victimize us for far too long. Its time for all citizens to defend themselves and let the criminals know we are armed and prepared to use deadly force when justified. We will not be easy victims!
I agree not all children or adults should be trusted with firearms. That is why I recommended a safe (a large one), something difficult to move and open.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
You could do what they did in Scary Movie.
Put an electric fence around her private parts. That would stop anyone getting to it.
You gotta tell her she has to cary some protection. Even if it is a brick in her hand bag.
Or tell her to cut her hair and act like a man.
Kinda hard to force someone to do this kind of thing. I can imagine a nervous woman letting a few caps off at a local janitor because she thought he was the rapist.
Put an electric fence around her private parts. That would stop anyone getting to it.
You gotta tell her she has to cary some protection. Even if it is a brick in her hand bag.
Or tell her to cut her hair and act like a man.
Kinda hard to force someone to do this kind of thing. I can imagine a nervous woman letting a few caps off at a local janitor because she thought he was the rapist.
Granted, but when that doesn't work, what then?DBBrinson1 wrote:
Well. A .12 gauge pump has a pretty distinct sound. I have first hand testimony that the mere sound of it being racked sent an intruder out the bedroom window faster than when he enteredBubbalo wrote:
Exactly.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I haven't followed the threat too close, so I might've missed something. What good is an unloaded gun going to do anyone, besides look intimidating?