I don't think you understand. Torture is wrong and any information you get using it is most likely incorrect. People will say anything to stop being tortured.IG-Calibre wrote:
Yeah and my answer is that achieving that Goal i.e. "credible evidence" via the means of torture is bullshit, and have outlined why. In a way you are saying that torture is ok, that somehow the ends justifies the means, that torturing for "credible information" is somehow more palatable and acceptable. Well it's not, yet the US administration wants us to believe it is, but, that ain't happening i'm afraid.Varegg wrote:
Then it can`t have been directed at me cause i never stated torture was okay by any group or for whatever cause ......IG-Calibre wrote:
No Varegg the point i'm making is, the delusion that it's ok for the Western World to torture because it reveals "credible information" is a massive pile of steaming horse shit, all torture does is coerce the person into saying or agreeing to whatever bullshit they think will stop them being tortured, it has zero credibility.
What i stated was a mere difference in what goal we and them have when using torture as a mean of gathering information.
eh? this is exactly what i've said.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
I don't think you understand. Torture is wrong and any information you get using it is most likely incorrect. People will say anything to stop being tortured.IG-Calibre wrote:
Yeah and my answer is that achieving that Goal i.e. "credible evidence" via the means of torture is bullshit, and have outlined why. In a way you are saying that torture is ok, that somehow the ends justifies the means, that torturing for "credible information" is somehow more palatable and acceptable. Well it's not, yet the US administration wants us to believe it is, but, that ain't happening i'm afraid.Varegg wrote:
Then it can`t have been directed at me cause i never stated torture was okay by any group or for whatever cause ......
What i stated was a mere difference in what goal we and them have when using torture as a mean of gathering information.
Good thing we're 'morally superior'.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Al Queda style:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275341,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_imag … orture.jpg
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photo … rture8.jpg
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1783,00.html
I bet there is nothing in it about sleep deparvation or humiliation by stacking nude men or dogs barking.
You're both saying the same thing I think...IG-Calibre wrote:
eh? this is exactly what i've said.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
I don't think you understand. Torture is wrong and any information you get using it is most likely incorrect. People will say anything to stop being tortured.IG-Calibre wrote:
Yeah and my answer is that achieving that Goal i.e. "credible evidence" via the means of torture is bullshit, and have outlined why. In a way you are saying that torture is ok, that somehow the ends justifies the means, that torturing for "credible information" is somehow more palatable and acceptable. Well it's not, yet the US administration wants us to believe it is, but, that ain't happening i'm afraid.
Ok Ok... im new to this. I was just providing a couple of items to question what was said for more clarity.Bubbalo wrote:
Which is one person's opinion. Besides which, cutting people up is frowned upon, but we make an exception for doctors.crashmctavish wrote:
"representing the complete human form is frowned upon for it may lead to man becoming idolised and his evanescence being forgotten" - An Irano-Islamic Perspective - Amir H ZekrgooPubic wrote:
Not every picture is art. Remember, education is a Muslim's duty, and pictures can sometimes be educational tools.
And I remember Reading this...
clicky
Further, your link is completely irrelevant. Drawing a human for educational purposes is different to educating someone in how to draw a human.
The first quote is from a learned academic standpoint on the subject, (not just the throwaway "one persons opinion") If you can find me an academic standpoint which refutes this please do.
Also In order to draw a human whether it is for any illustration, Is the actual action of drawing is going against what is directed in the qur'an?
Sounds plausible. I guess they do it the same way stories of Israeli atrocities towards Palestinians are fabricated.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
It wouldn't exactly be outside the abilities of the US government's intelligence community to falsify this.CameronPoe wrote:
I'll check it tomorrow (bedtime). I would be very surprised if a major news corporation risked running a falsified story but I don't know I just find the story rather odd. It's probably legit, what do I know.
I`m not saying torture is ok in any way, by anyone, for any cause - how on earth can you conclude that from my previous quote stating the exact opposite ?IG-Calibre wrote:
Yeah and my answer is that achieving that Goal i.e. "credible evidence" via the means of torture is bullshit, and have outlined why. In a way you are saying that torture is ok, that somehow the ends justifies the means, that torturing for "credible information" is somehow more palatable and acceptable. Well it's not, yet the US administration wants us to believe it is, but, that ain't happening i'm afraid.Varegg wrote:
Then it can`t have been directed at me cause i never stated torture was okay by any group or for whatever cause ......IG-Calibre wrote:
No Varegg the point i'm making is, the delusion that it's ok for the Western World to torture because it reveals "credible information" is a massive pile of steaming horse shit, all torture does is coerce the person into saying or agreeing to whatever bullshit they think will stop them being tortured, it has zero credibility.
What i stated was a mere difference in what goal we and them have when using torture as a mean of gathering information.
In my first post about the subject i just made the point that western practice differs from middle eastern practice as to why they use torture and what information they are after, not once did i imply that i thought the western method was okay.
And this is common knowledge amongst those that have attended intelligence training in the millitary.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
no, not in here !Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Do I detect a political statement?
I wonder if Al Qaeda use the water torutre method, probably not.
My point exactly. The seemingly forced " Low Tech " look of the manual seems to border on comical.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
It wouldn't exactly be outside the abilities of the US government's intelligence community to falsify this.CameronPoe wrote:
I'll check it tomorrow (bedtime). I would be very surprised if a major news corporation risked running a falsified story but I don't know I just find the story rather odd. It's probably legit, what do I know.
You can almost picture how it went down some where deep inside the Pentagon
Stan : Hmmm. How would and Arab man draw ? Any suggestions Skip ?
Skip: Gee I don’t know Stan. I doubt he would have access to photo shop or a computer. They live in the sand or something don’t they Phillip?
Phillip: Yes, I believe that‘s right. Lets get some Crayons and try that. !
You must be open to admit, this observation swings both ways on a Varity of subjects.
Does it not?
Still, I believe they are capable of horrors I hope you can not imagine.