Several people on this forum believe the US should pressure Israel to take steps that will lead to peace with the Palestinians. I disagree, and I'd like to explore (and challenge) this idea by asking: What action will the Palestinians take in response that will lead to peace? For example, will the daily Qassam rockets stop? Will Hamas reverse its official position and declare support for a two-state solution? Will the less-organized Palestinian militant groups refrain from attacks? What will the Palestinians do that will lead to peace?
All that. lol
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Realistically? Probably nothing as long as Hamas has power.
Yep. You'll have to wait until Fatah are back in power. The only reason Hamas got in was with Fatah protest votes - not for any great love of Hamas.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Realistically? Probably nothing as long as Hamas has power.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-30 05:08:26)
Of course realistically Israel would never take steps for peace so this whole conversation is a bit theoretical wouldn't you say?
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I agree that Fatah is highly likely to respond constructively to Israeli moves, but I'm not sure how much that matters if Fatah can't control Hamas or the smaller violent factions. Do you think they can? I've always thought that a real peace agreement would have to be with Hamas, because they control most of the attacks on Israel.CameronPoe wrote:
Yep. You'll have to wait until Fatah are back in power. The only reason Hamas got in was with Fatah protest votes - not for any great love of Hamas.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Realistically? Probably nothing as long as Hamas has power.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News … 43,00.html
When Israel withdrew its forces in 2005, Palestinian leaders had a chance to prove that they could govern competently.
When Israel withdrew its forces in 2005, Palestinian leaders had a chance to prove that they could govern competently.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
The evacuation of settlements in Gaza was a significant step. Not a perfect step, because Israel still maintains a large amount of control there, but forcing Israelis to abandon their homes and greenhouses was a serious undertaking. Also, as you probably know, Israel made serious offers to Yasir Arafat at Camp David and Taba. Perhaps not perfect offers, but these are moves toward peace that can't just be ignored. Maybe US pressure could force Israel to take similar, but larger, steps. There are certainly people on this forum who believe that is the case.oug wrote:
Of course realistically Israel would never take steps for peace so this whole conversation is a bit theoretical wouldn't you say?
I'm not seeing a whole lot of serious responses: if Israel were pressured to take the steps you think it should, what would the Palestinians do?
They would keep trying to kill Israelis.
I'm serious.
Too many years of indoctorination.
What we need is a good plague to sort things out.
I'm serious.
Too many years of indoctorination.
What we need is a good plague to sort things out.
I agree, it just does not seem to be even remotely possible that the Palestinian groups would even attempt to make peace with the Israeli state.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
Similarly Israelis will never put aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians and the dead zone between them and Syria. It seems at the moment as though state terrorism is alive and well and here to stay.I_SUCK_999 wrote:
I agree, it just does not seem to be even remotely possible that the Palestinian groups would even attempt to make peace with the Israeli state.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
Where's Rodney King when you need him?
That is a surprising statement. Didn't Israel dismantle settlements in Gaza? And didn't Israel offer to dismantle settlements and evacuate more than 90% of the west bank at Taba? That was a real offer because it would have been a diplomatic disaster for Israel if they repudiated it after the Palestinians accepted it. Those are two examples of Israelis putting aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians.CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly Israelis will never put aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians and the dead zone between them and Syria. It seems at the moment as though state terrorism is alive and well and here to stay.I_SUCK_999 wrote:
I agree, it just does not seem to be even remotely possible that the Palestinian groups would even attempt to make peace with the Israeli state.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
Erm... how about 'Jerusalem is the eternal indivisible capital of the state of Israel'...... that doesn't sound too 'withdrawal-tastic'. They also said that Ariel will never be vacated or Ma'ale Adumim. They're pretty serious fucking chunks of the West Bank. They only reason they vacated Gaza was because it was demographic suicide and believe you me the ultra-orthodox crew were livid.san4 wrote:
That is a surprising statement. Didn't Israel dismantle settlements in Gaza? And didn't Israel offer to dismantle settlements and evacuate more than 90% of the west bank at Taba? That was a real offer because it would have been a diplomatic disaster for Israel if they repudiated it after the Palestinians accepted it. Those are two examples of Israelis putting aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians.CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly Israelis will never put aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians and the dead zone between them and Syria. It seems at the moment as though state terrorism is alive and well and here to stay.I_SUCK_999 wrote:
I agree, it just does not seem to be even remotely possible that the Palestinian groups would even attempt to make peace with the Israeli state.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-06-02 05:35:49)
http://gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.htmlsan4 wrote:
That is a surprising statement. Didn't Israel dismantle settlements in Gaza? And didn't Israel offer to dismantle settlements and evacuate more than 90% of the west bank at Taba? That was a real offer because it would have been a diplomatic disaster for Israel if they repudiated it after the Palestinians accepted it. Those are two examples of Israelis putting aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians.CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly Israelis will never put aside their desire to annex/reclaim all land inhabited by the Palestinians and the dead zone between them and Syria. It seems at the moment as though state terrorism is alive and well and here to stay.I_SUCK_999 wrote:
I agree, it just does not seem to be even remotely possible that the Palestinian groups would even attempt to make peace with the Israeli state.
Their hatred for Israel will never be put aside until all Palestinians OR all Israelis are Dead.
I wish the Hamas would leave, and that the Fatah would come to power. Actually, it would be nice if Fatah + Israel worked together to reduce terrorism (not just killing civilians like Israel is doing now). But that's just wishful thinking...
It simply looks like hate is too deeply ingrained in both countries.
-konfusion
It simply looks like hate is too deeply ingrained in both countries.
-konfusion
You know very well that before Hamas the fatah was in power. Did Israel bother to make peace talks with them .konfusion wrote:
I wish the Hamas would leave, and that the Fatah would come to power. Actually, it would be nice if Fatah + Israel worked together to reduce terrorism (not just killing civilians like Israel is doing now). But that's just wishful thinking...
It simply looks like hate is too deeply ingrained in both countries.
-konfusion
Nooooo
If hamas dissapers from the face of the earth tomorrow will Israel be willing to make peace talks that will go any where.
Nooooo
Cause in Israel eyes any peace talks will mean giving up the right to annex west bank to Israel and gaza. So what is the strategy. Wait about 50 years and this problem will be no more cause there woulden't be a land left for the Palestinians.
I know, that's what so sad about it. As long as the USA supports Israel, Palestine has no chance. As long as Palestine defends itself with suicide bombings, the world will not credit it as a country. I know two people who can't get work anywhere because they're Palestinian. It's a sad world we live in, isn't it?bogo24dk wrote:
You know very well that before Hamas the fatah was in power. Did Israel bother to make peace talks with them .
Nooooo
If hamas dissapers from the face of the earth tomorrow will Israel be willing to make peace talks that will go any where.
Nooooo
Cause in Israel eyes any peace talks will mean giving up the right to annex west bank to Israel and gaza. So what is the strategy. Wait about 50 years and this problem will be no more cause there woulden't be a land left for the Palestinians.
-konfusion
You honestly thinking blowing yourself up in a cafe full of civilians is defending your country? You do your username justice.konfusion wrote:
As long as Palestine defends itself with suicide bombings, the world will not credit it as a country.
Unfortunately 57% is a small majority. The fact that nearly half of palestinians want Israel dead probably doesn't help the matters. Seems palestinians arent so innocent after all.
See i can turn the facts either way. Thats because neither of them is right. Get over your obsession with one being right the other being wrong.
I think for the next 25 years at least the USA should keep a fairly low profile when it comes to middle eastern issues. The argument of who stole whos land is pointless, i mean were the Jews not exiled by the Romans? It seems from history that it is impossible to destroy an insurgency look at Vietnam and Afghanistan when the Soviets went in. THe only way i see Israel getting peace with Palestine is that the Palestinian leaders crack down on people launching rockets at Israel, of course they are going to strike back it is human nature. THe Israelis did very well in the first gulf war when they got scuds launched at them.
Confused, where did you get your education?konfusion wrote:
I know, that's what so sad about it. As long as the USA supports Israel, Palestine has no chance. As long as Palestine defends itself with suicide bombings, the world will not credit it as a country. I know two people who can't get work anywhere because they're Palestinian. It's a sad world we live in, isn't it?bogo24dk wrote:
You know very well that before Hamas the fatah was in power. Did Israel bother to make peace talks with them .
Nooooo
If hamas dissapers from the face of the earth tomorrow will Israel be willing to make peace talks that will go any where.
Nooooo
Cause in Israel eyes any peace talks will mean giving up the right to annex west bank to Israel and gaza. So what is the strategy. Wait about 50 years and this problem will be no more cause there woulden't be a land left for the Palestinians.
-konfusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_accords
I am sure that most honest people on both sides want peace, it is the pricks in power that want to keep the conflict going.
I honestly think that - hmm, lemme find my own quote (written in response to your posts countless times)Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
You honestly thinking blowing yourself up in a cafe full of civilians is defending your country? You do your username justice.
Now how many times do I have to repeat that quote?konfusion wrote:
If you have nothing to lose, you will do whatever it takes
edit: Please, back up your agreements and disagreements with the issues. I'm getting tired of you condoning or condemning, and not actually giving any reason or anything...
As for Pinto:
Yeah, Clinton helped, but I don't know how many others will.
Furthermore:
Yes, officially a country, but in many countries it is seen as the "rogue state" or the "enemy" or "terrorists". Palestine is never actually seen as a real country, but as a bunch of Muslim extremists. Does that explain my view on that to you?
-konfusion
Last edited by konfusion (2007-06-02 15:23:59)