Well i say - let the two countries or provinces fight it out , why should we care?
Because the USA are providing one country with an obvious advantage. - and now to respond to Pug:airie865 wrote:
Well i say - let the two countries or provinces fight it out , why should we care?
I agree that the Palestinians really "screwed up this time" by voting for who they did. They at war, though, and apparently see everything in short terms. They want immediate satisfaction, and they want their land back. Germany voted for Hitler because he made tons of radical promises - many of which he kept. They were elected because they're telling the people what they want to hear.Pug wrote:
Okay, but some thoughts:
The Hamas & The Hez have some pull within the Palestinian society. If they are part of the Pally government, doesn't it follow they represent the people? And if so, then isn't their policy of attacking Israel consistent with the wants of their people?
I don't see radicals representing the whole population. Again - analogy to Germany: Did the Nazis represent their whole population? I don't think so.So if the Hamas/Hez shoot rockets into Israel, isn't this an attack from the Pally people on the Israeli people?
I want Israel to deploy more tactically, to get the ones responsible, not poor random civilians who are throwing rocks in protest. Just because you support your country does not mean you are a terrorist.So what you guys want is for Israel to wait until the dust settles from the last rocket, make a head count and then retaliate? So who do they attack? The rockets guys are obviously gone by the time they figure that out. So no, they retaliate immediately to take out the rocket guys.
Did I ever say I condone terrorism? I don't. And I don't believe in "an eye for an eye either" - everyone knows how you can finish that quote. The Palestinian people have an obvious lack of perspective on the matter that the Israelis shouldn't. Wihle the Palestinian people live in poverty, and have to buy their own water back from the Israelis, the Israelis are swimming around in their huge pools, reading their Newspapers in their huge houses. Wouldn't you expect Israelis to have more perspective too?The rocket guys are in the middle of a neighborhood? What about a cafe bombing? Was the cafe filled with IDF troopers? Sure, it's tragic that the Pally people are dying for many reasons, one being retaliatory strikes...but what are the Pally people doing about it? Do they blame their Hamas-led & Hez-led government for allowing a rocket attack from the top of a condo? It's not like they don't realize Israel will not hesitate to destroy the building, so why do the Pally people allow it?
Did I ever say it isn't the rocket shooters' faults? No. I said you can't blame entire Palestine for it. Perhaps I was unclear - it seems obvious to me that these extremist groups have been formed, and that the Palestinian people support them.And the rockets are pretty inaccurate right? So are they ALWAYS fired at the IDF? No? Well, how is it right to have the intention of killing Israelis and be faultless? How is it only the fault of Israel when the Pally government supports these attacks? And how is Israel's fault when the Pally government representing the Pally people actually encourages these attacks by repetitively staging them in highly populated areas?
As I said, when you have nothing to lose, you will do whatever it takes. So accept Palestine as a country. Show that there is some support out there for the Palestinian people. As long as no one stands up for them, they will have nothing to lose.
-konfusion
the usa are giving one an advantageairie865 wrote:
Well i say - let the two countries or provinces fight it out , why should we care?
Tell that to the Palestinian whose house was torn down.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
puts it in a bit of perspective.usmarine2005 wrote:
hahaGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
ƒ³
No, what I'm saying is the IDF's control the security within the OT. Two different things. They are the "police", they should not, but they are. But if you want to twist my words...Pug wrote:
Clarify please. Are you saying that Palestine actually belongs to Israel?sergeriver wrote:
Wrong. The IDF's are the police of Palestine, so they should get those extremists. If they can't deal with them, then they should leave the OT.Pug wrote:
So are you saying that Israel has the right to fight back?
And what about addressing Vil's statement? That part of the reason the Palestinians are receiving the treatment they are getting is because they are allowing the extremists to exist within their own country?
Those Muslims and their expansive policy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
Read your map again.usmarine2005 wrote:
Canada and Russia?m3thod wrote:
check out who owns all the oil!!!Mekstizzle wrote:
Here's a better one.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
http://i18.tinypic.com/4kdz6ki.png
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te … s-map.html
Maybe they don't want Hamas to continue with the attacks after all. Maybe they want peace. Wouldn't you?Pug wrote:
Okay, but some thoughts:
The Hamas & The Hez have some pull within the Palestinian society. If they are part of the Pally government, doesn't it follow they represent the people? And if so, then isn't their policy of attacking Israel consistent with the wants of their people?
Many residents of the Palestinian territories believe Hamas should stop advocating for the elimination of Israel, according to a poll by Near East Consulting. 57.2 per cent of respondents think Hamas should change its position.
You have 10 karma points a day, and you received just 5. Give karma back. Np.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
ZZZZZZZZ....Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than you to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
Regarding all the BS you said about CamPoe, you don't have an idea what you are talking about. I strongly recommend you to read before posting, since it's clear you don't know a shit about CamPoe.
Nowhere he stated he wanted Israel wiped out of the map. All he wants is Israel to stop its heavy handedness, particularly with Palestine and Lebanon. Nobody is advocating the asshole extremists who throw rockets into Israel's soil.
Both sides should review their policies. And again, you can't land here with your parachute and start shooting accusation without knowing a shit about people.
Still small compared to how much they have. Shit, look at the large amounts of land they got in one go when India was partitioned into 3 countries (India, Pakistan, East Pakistan/Bangladesh) the latter 2 of which were the sole Muslim states.sergeriver wrote:
Those Muslims and their expansive policy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6742 … ingfw6.jpg
I think this whole Israel thing is similair to this. You have India a secular state which allows muslims to live there, but Pakistan/Bangladesh are sole muslim states that only really allow muslims in the country. You have around 1 million arabs/muslims in Israel but all the Palestinians want no Jews at all.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-05-30 05:25:03)
I don't understand your point. Muslisms are 1,5 billion people, and Jews only 15 million, and only 5 million live in Israel. In fact, you have more Jewish people in the US than in Israel.Mekstizzle wrote:
Still small compared to how much they have. Shit, look at the large amounts of land they got in one go when India was partitioned into 3 countries (India, Pakistan, East Pakistan/Bangladesh) the latter 2 of which were the sole Muslim states.sergeriver wrote:
Those Muslims and their expansive policy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6742 … ingfw6.jpg
Now this is the image that gets portrayed to you in western media. In actual fact muslims are treated like second class citizens in India. Have you heard of the Bharatiya Janata party? They've been in government several times. The BJP is a religious conservative political organisation. It sees itself as rising to the defence of indigenous culture, and Indian religious systems which include Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism. To many Hindu nationalists, Bharat is a Hindu Rashtra, literally a Hindu nation. The kind of rhetoric you get out of these guys is like what you hear out of Osama Bin Laden. India may give the impression of secularity but it is far from secular in many regards.Mekstizzle wrote:
Still small compared to how much they have. Shit, look at the large amounts of land they got in one go when India was partitioned into 3 countries (India, Pakistan, East Pakistan/Bangladesh) the latter 2 of which were the sole Muslim states.sergeriver wrote:
Those Muslims and their expansive policy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6742 … ingfw6.jpg
I think this whole Israel thing is similair to this. You have India a secular state which allows muslims to live there, but Pakistan/Bangladesh are sole muslim states that only really allow muslims in the country. You have around 1 million arabs/muslims in Israel but all the Palestinians want no Jews at all.
PS Who gave the inhabitants of greater empire era India their land? That's preposterous. Millions of muslims lived there for hundreds of years and milions of Indians lived there for hundreds of years. Not the case at all in pre-WWII Palestine, as you can see from serge's pic.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-30 05:36:09)
My point there is on one hand you're saying the have the right to police & defend themselves, & other the other hand you're condemning them for it. All the while the extremist group which are dictating everything happening within Palestine because of their actions.sergeriver wrote:
No, what I'm saying is the IDF's control the security within the OT. Two different things. They are the "police", they should not, but they are. But if you want to twist my words...Pug wrote:
Clarify please. Are you saying that Palestine actually belongs to Israel?sergeriver wrote:
Wrong. The IDF's are the police of Palestine, so they should get those extremists. If they can't deal with them, then they should leave the OT.
The Nazis dictated Germany's policies just like the extremist groups are doing so in Palestine.konfusion wrote:
I agree that the Palestinians really "screwed up this time" by voting for who they did.
I don't see radicals representing the whole population. Again - analogy to Germany: Did the Nazis represent their whole population? I don't think so.
Perhaps I was unclear - it seems obvious to me that these extremist groups have been formed, and that the Palestinian people support them.
And you want me to support the plight of people who support extremist groups.
To be clear I support both sides equally...oooo...our coffee is pretty good today.
I never said they had the right to send the IDF's into the OT, but since they do it, well, they should get those extremists by themselves. If the IDF's were not in the OT, then I'd concede the point.Pug wrote:
My point there is on one hand you're saying the have the right to police & defend themselves, & other the other hand you're condemning them for it. All the while the extremist group which are dictating everything happening within Palestine because of their actions.sergeriver wrote:
No, what I'm saying is the IDF's control the security within the OT. Two different things. They are the "police", they should not, but they are. But if you want to twist my words...Pug wrote:
Clarify please. Are you saying that Palestine actually belongs to Israel?
I'm just pointing out that everyone makes mistakes when electing...Pug wrote:
The Nazis dictated Germany's policies just like the extremist groups are doing so in Palestine.konfusion wrote:
I agree that the Palestinians really "screwed up this time" by voting for who they did.
I don't see radicals representing the whole population. Again - analogy to Germany: Did the Nazis represent their whole population? I don't think so.
Perhaps I was unclear - it seems obvious to me that these extremist groups have been formed, and that the Palestinian people support them.
And you want me to support the plight of people who support extremist groups.
To be clear I support both sides equally...oooo...our coffee is pretty good today.
Hitler definitely was a mistake, and so is Hamas, imo.
For the record: I really dislike extremist groups.
-konfusion
And they were allowed to because before them everyone was starving. The fact is, any party which can deliver more of the basic needs will be followed, in any country, regardless of how immoral it is, because average people won't starve so that others can live free and happy.Pug wrote:
The Nazis dictated Germany's policies just like the extremist groups are doing so in Palestine.
That's Hot.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
ZZZZZZZZ....Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than you to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
israel = fail
Still awaiting responses to these. That's even hotter!usmarine2005 wrote:
That's Hot.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
ZZZZZZZZ....Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than you to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
1.
2.CameronPoe wrote:
The 'No Posts' was aimed at the other guy - he's been around for a long time but never posts in D&ST.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Poe, you are so full of yourself. You prove my point by posting what you posted. First you come after me for being a new member(Mr. No Posts) and attack someone who agreed with me.And I agreed with you. Or did you overlook that fact? Let me point it out:DeathBecomesYu wrote:
You say to back up my arguments with factual information. What facts do I need to back up what I said? I simply stated that both sides have done wrong and done right and no one here will solve this by repeatedly posting on a game forum about the same thing over and over and over.CameronPoe wrote:
I am well aware of the futility of posting about Palestine on an internet forum.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't think Hamas are capable of a ceasefire myself either.Is that unclear in any way? Is that hard to understand? Hamas resort to terrorism on a daily basis by the way - in case you're under any illusions as to my thoughts on Hamas.CameronPoe wrote:
The Israelis should never have elected Likud and the Palestinians should never have elected Hamas.Wow. Just. Wow. I have went into great detail and talked at length on this forum about my support for a two state solution to the Israeli problem. I pinned my hopes on Barak and Arafat, sadly they failed, but that should not mean we give up hope. Hamas and Likud/Kadima won't be in power forever. Look at what was achieved in Northern Ireland.CameronPoe wrote:
The only fact is that there are groups out there that want nothing less than to see Israel wiped off the map and because of that there will never be peace in our lifetimes. It seems that you would love to see Israel fall as well.
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
I'm sorry if me calling a spade a spade when it comes to the current Israeli government offends you but that just exposes your bias. I of course am biased towards poor honest hard-done by Palestinians, I don't support the methods used by some of them to achieve their goals however. Again you will find many a thread where I endorse guerrilla warfare under the right conditions as long as it's principled, i.e. NO ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS, MILITARY & GOVERNMENTAL targets only.
Israel ARE state terrorists. Them breaking international law since 1967 is just the tip of a less than shiny white iceberg.Again you seem to have overlooked the part of my sentence that said:DeathBecomesYu wrote:
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic.Pray tell what are people on a D&ST to post about if it's such a crime to 'state what the problems are'? Should we just sit around metaphorically sucking each others dicks? Where was the off-topic?CameronPoe wrote:
...don't go round that often stating that I have the golden solutions to all of lifes little problems, least of all the Palestinian problemI was attacking the other guy and all of those who are too shy to come on this forum and state what they feel. They would rather shy behind someone else and stick in a frankly pointless 'Woooh! Go team!' or 'Pwnt, +1' than add anything of value to the discussion. I think you'll find from my responses throughout the thread that I actually took in the validity of many of your comments and in actual fact agreed with them.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously?The patronising tone is for entertainment. It generates more vitriolic responses, which in turn is entertaining. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. In real life I never act in such a manner.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing.Wow. Look who's a mite offended. If you don't like what you read then don't fucking read it. Is that so difficult? If you take every response on this forum as some command or instruction guiding your life then you're taking things a little too seriously. This is the internet. Chill the fuck out.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
PS You were Mr. PointsFullOfHoles. Mainly because of the 'Israel does the best it can..' comment. I've been there - I didn't see any signs of the construction of settlements being halted while I was there in fact what I did see was thousands of spanking new Israeli houses on Palestinian land and a wall cutting right through the heart of a Palestinian neighbourhood of suburban Jerusalem. If that's the best they can do then all hope is lost.
Perhaps you would like to respond to them usmarine, given that you are in such complete agreement with this guy?CameronPoe wrote:
And look who continues to act all offended. If you don't want to read and deal with responses properly then perhaps D&ST isn't for you. I dealt with your post on a point by point basis, the least you can do is likewise.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than a close minded person to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
PS You dissect my post inaccurately and you expect me not to dissect yours? Please...
PPS Please state in clear unambiguous terms the exact thing that you accuse me of being closed-minded about too so I can at least be afforded the ability to defend myself.
PPPS You go on about e-penis and then play the karma card (which is largely meaningless)? Hmmm.
kthx
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-31 02:30:11)
You know they've stopped blowing each other up in Northern Ireland, don't you? I remember when I was young it was thought that we'd never see that in our lifetime. Why is there no possibility of such a thing in the Middle East, all it needs is a little moderation from both sides and a grass roots clamp down on extremists (easier said than done I know but not necessarily impossible).DeathBecomesYu wrote:
There will never be a ceasefire with Hamas....its a joke if you think Hamas would ever HOLD a ceasefire. Yes, i do believe that Israel would stop firing on the West Bank IF they were not attacked any more. Settlements are another issue. I am not defending Israel or the Palestinians. I support both in what they believe is the right thing to do. Peace in our lifetime? That will never happen because like I said...eye for an eye has been going on for thousands of years and will go on long after we are all gone. Cameron you can call what I say bullshit all you want. I have read your posts all over these forums. You really seem to have the answers to ALL of life's questions and problems and a lot of time to write about it. It is very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback!!!!!! No one here has the answers to solve this...and when you speak of bullshit, a lot of people have stepped deep in yours. I am posting because I see the same things posted here over and over and over (long before I actually signed up) and the reality is this. You nor I, nor any of us here is going to solve this in our lifetime, especially posting forums based in gaming with a few hundred people possibly seeing this post. You can spew all the intelligent sounding words, phrases and rhetoric to your hearts content because it wont change a thing. When you and I are long gone....people will be posting on forums (or whatever form forums will take in the future) over the same BS over the same problems like people have been doing long before we were born. This is what I believe...Israel and the Palestinian people have done good and bad on both ends and do have good intentions if ever allowed to do so. But as always, there will be a "monkeys with the wrench"(Hamas, religion, fanatics, terrorist groups and egos) to keep it all messed up and going for another thousand years.
Fuck Israel! and fuck the terrorists inside Palestine!
Both those governments have spawned killing machines that have divided the people for almost 60 years (modern era). I am tired of this debate!!
Both sides are guilty of egregious atrocities!!! Who or what are we blaming. . . .???
Both zionist jews and hardline muslims want to kill each other. . . .what polls do we really need to see??
Both sides want to rule everything!!! 47% of Americans have their heads up their ass's!!!
Both those governments have spawned killing machines that have divided the people for almost 60 years (modern era). I am tired of this debate!!
Both sides are guilty of egregious atrocities!!! Who or what are we blaming. . . .???
Both zionist jews and hardline muslims want to kill each other. . . .what polls do we really need to see??
Both sides want to rule everything!!! 47% of Americans have their heads up their ass's!!!
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-31 01:30:57)
OMG I agree........never thought id see the day..................If this is possible then maybe the middle east can be sorted out too.fadedsteve wrote:
Fuck Israel! and fuck the terrorists inside Palestine!
Both those governments have spawned killing machines that have divided the people for almost 60 years (modern era). I am tired of this debate!!
Both sides are guilty of egregious atrocities!!! Who or what are we blaming. . . .???
Both zionist jews and hardline muslims want to kill each other. . . .what polls do we really need to see??
Both sides want to rule everything!!! 47% of Americans have their heads up their ass's!!!
How about some karma then?? jesusJahManRed wrote:
OMG I agree........never thought id see the day..................If this is possible then maybe the middle east can be sorted out too.fadedsteve wrote:
Fuck Israel! and fuck the terrorists inside Palestine!
Both those governments have spawned killing machines that have divided the people for almost 60 years (modern era). I am tired of this debate!!
Both sides are guilty of egregious atrocities!!! Who or what are we blaming. . . .???
Both zionist jews and hardline muslims want to kill each other. . . .what polls do we really need to see??
Both sides want to rule everything!!! 47% of Americans have their heads up their ass's!!!
Finefadedsteve wrote:
How about some karma then?? jesusJahManRed wrote:
OMG I agree........never thought id see the day..................If this is possible then maybe the middle east can be sorted out too.fadedsteve wrote:
Fuck Israel! and fuck the terrorists inside Palestine!
Both those governments have spawned killing machines that have divided the people for almost 60 years (modern era). I am tired of this debate!!
Both sides are guilty of egregious atrocities!!! Who or what are we blaming. . . .???
Both zionist jews and hardline muslims want to kill each other. . . .what polls do we really need to see??
Both sides want to rule everything!!! 47% of Americans have their heads up their ass's!!!
-konfusion