BF2S Forums Israel killed 650 Palestinians in 2006, 120 children

bogo24dk wrote:

Well simple question to all of you pro Israelis. What you do if someone steals your land keeps you in camps and uses the same tactics as Nazi's did in ww2 in the polish gethos ?

oh brother

usmarine2005 wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Well simple question to all of you pro Israelis. What you do if someone steals your land keeps you in camps and uses the same tactics as Nazi's did in ww2 in the polish gethos ?

oh brother

He's got a very valid point usmarine: the Gaza Strip and all of the divided up cantons of the West Bank are exactly like the Warsaw Ghetto, rather ironically.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-31 05:58:58)

Braddock wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Braddock wrote:

That's why they're all so poor, spending all their money on weapons ...they've no priorities those damn Palestinians.

I doubt Al'Qaeda would have much input into Palestinian affairs, the last thing the Palestinian cause needs is to be associated with those knob jockies. I'd have my money on Hamas buying the kit.

Al Qaeda is anti-Jew are they not?  They have plenty of interest in the Palestinian struggle.

The Palestinians have a very strong sense of individuality in the Arab world, they don't like to bundle themselves in with every other Arab group. Al'Qaeda may very well be behind the scenes in some capacity in the Palestinian struggle but I personally doubt the men and women in charge of the Palestinian cause would like to see their struggle associated with the wider, more extreme, Al'Qaeda agenda.

But you fail to realize that Hamas and the Palestinian people as a whole, are two separate entities. The Palestinian people just want to go home and not be treated like animals and/or be shot at every day.  Hamas on the other hand would like to kill every last Jew in Israel and wipe it off the map.

Hamas, as does any other militia/organization/group, needs funding political/economical/manpower. Al Qaeda would and probably does provide that and I'm sure Hamas welcomes it.

Cougar wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Al Qaeda is anti-Jew are they not?  They have plenty of interest in the Palestinian struggle.

The Palestinians have a very strong sense of individuality in the Arab world, they don't like to bundle themselves in with every other Arab group. Al'Qaeda may very well be behind the scenes in some capacity in the Palestinian struggle but I personally doubt the men and women in charge of the Palestinian cause would like to see their struggle associated with the wider, more extreme, Al'Qaeda agenda.

But you fail to realize that Hamas and the Palestinian people as a whole, are two separate entities. The Palestinian people just want to go home and not be treated like animals and/or be shot at every day.  Hamas on the other hand would like to kill every last Jew in Israel and wipe it off the map.

Hamas, as does any other militia/organization/group, needs funding political/economical/manpower. Al Qaeda would and probably does provide that and I'm sure Hamas welcomes it.

I understand the difference but it's just my opinion that if I were high up in Hamas I would try to ensure that the cause was not hijacked by an extremist group like Al'Qaeda ...for the sake of the bad publicity/image if nothing else. Hamas has a bad rep but nowhere near as bad as if it were explicitly affiliated with Al'Qaeda. I'm sure there may be dealings on some level, even for geographical reasons alone, but to what extent I wouldn't be sure.

Braddock wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Braddock wrote:

The Palestinians have a very strong sense of individuality in the Arab world, they don't like to bundle themselves in with every other Arab group. Al'Qaeda may very well be behind the scenes in some capacity in the Palestinian struggle but I personally doubt the men and women in charge of the Palestinian cause would like to see their struggle associated with the wider, more extreme, Al'Qaeda agenda.

But you fail to realize that Hamas and the Palestinian people as a whole, are two separate entities. The Palestinian people just want to go home and not be treated like animals and/or be shot at every day.  Hamas on the other hand would like to kill every last Jew in Israel and wipe it off the map.

Hamas, as does any other militia/organization/group, needs funding political/economical/manpower. Al Qaeda would and probably does provide that and I'm sure Hamas welcomes it.

I understand the difference but it's just my opinion that if I were high up in Hamas I would try to ensure that the cause was not hijacked by an extremist group like Al'Qaeda ...for the sake of the bad publicity/image if nothing else. Hamas has a bad rep but nowhere near as bad as if it were explicitly affiliated with Al'Qaeda. I'm sure there may be dealings on some level, even for geographical reasons alone, but to what extent I wouldn't be sure.

If Hamas is independent, where do they get their funding?  Where do they get their weapons?  Where do they get their manpower?  Do you think all of these things are just lying around in Palestine?

Cougar wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Cougar wrote:

But you fail to realize that Hamas and the Palestinian people as a whole, are two separate entities. The Palestinian people just want to go home and not be treated like animals and/or be shot at every day.  Hamas on the other hand would like to kill every last Jew in Israel and wipe it off the map.

Hamas, as does any other militia/organization/group, needs funding political/economical/manpower. Al Qaeda would and probably does provide that and I'm sure Hamas welcomes it.

I understand the difference but it's just my opinion that if I were high up in Hamas I would try to ensure that the cause was not hijacked by an extremist group like Al'Qaeda ...for the sake of the bad publicity/image if nothing else. Hamas has a bad rep but nowhere near as bad as if it were explicitly affiliated with Al'Qaeda. I'm sure there may be dealings on some level, even for geographical reasons alone, but to what extent I wouldn't be sure.

If Hamas is independent, where do they get their funding?  Where do they get their weapons?  Where do they get their manpower?  Do you think all of these things are just lying around in Palestine?

Several million Palestinian refugees live in surrounding countries. Fully half of the population of Jordan is Palestinian for instance. It doesn't take any great stretch of the imagination to conclude that the bulk of their support comes from these quarters.

Cougar wrote:

I just said it was retarded to say they financed themselves completely and fully.

I never said that...nor that is not where I was going.

israeli military wrote:

...It said, without elaborating, that the report was "rife with inaccuracies" and rejected what it called "the attempt to equate terror organizations" with a "democratic state that acts within the confines of the law to exercise its right to defend itself, its sovereign territory, and civilians against terror organizations."

isn't it ironic, how the killing of civilians is "lawful" for one side, and "terror" for the other ? How can it be "right" ( or rather, not wrong ) to kill civilians ? Just because you made a law that says so ?

As advanced as the IMF are, I have long wondered why they can't find more efficient ways to fight islamic militants than shelling entire neighbourhoods, or firing rockets from a helicopter in a crowded street.

My guess is that they are more willing to live with substantial "collateral damage" among the palestinian population than risk their own soldiers' lifes in CQC.

M.O.A.B wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

israeli military wrote:

...It said, without elaborating, that the report was "rife with inaccuracies" and rejected what it called "the attempt to equate terror organizations" with a "democratic state that acts within the confines of the law to exercise its right to defend itself, its sovereign territory, and civilians against terror organizations."

isn't it ironic, how the killing of civilians is "lawful" for one side, and "terror" for the other ? How can it be "right" ( or rather, not wrong ) to kill civilians ? Just because you made a law that says so ?

As advanced as the IMF are, I have long wondered why they can't find more efficient ways to fight islamic militants than shelling entire neighbourhoods, or firing rockets from a helicopter in a crowded street.

My guess is that they are more willing to live with substantial "collateral damage" among the palestinian population than risk their own soldiers' lifes in CQC.

I thought the IDF was the best urban warfare army in the world, or was that someone else?

I think that they go off K: D ratios and combat losses.  Considering that they mainly fight unarmed civilians with rocks, that ain't saying much.

JahManRed wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

I thought the IDF was the best urban warfare army in the world, or was that someone else?

I'd imagine it would be the British. They had the most practice over here and they killed relatively few civilians while doing so, well compared to the IDF anyways. They learned that open urban combat wasn't always the best way forward. They formed covert Army units and focused on precision strikes based on weeks of surveillance. Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughgall_Martyrs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Irel … 51,00.html
One civilian was killed but on a whole a successful operation. They wiped out a whole unit of the IRA

The war with Lebanon last year showed that the IDF weren't so good on the ground.

Yeah, I had always thought the Israelis were meant to be hot shit but the Lebanese did show them up big time during the last conflict.

Cougar wrote:

Braddock wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

I'd imagine it would be the British. They had the most practice over here and they killed relatively few civilians while doing so, well compared to the IDF anyways. They learned that open urban combat wasn't always the best way forward. They formed covert Army units and focused on precision strikes based on weeks of surveillance. Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughgall_Martyrs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Irel … 51,00.html
One civilian was killed but on a whole a successful operation. They wiped out a whole unit of the IRA

The war with Lebanon last year showed that the IDF weren't so good on the ground.

Yeah, I had always thought the Israelis were meant to be hot shit but the Lebanese did show them up big time during the last conflict.

What do you expect, most of the IDF is made up of conscripts.

Very highly trained and motivated conscripts.

I'd say the Israelis being shown up had more to do with the fact that Hezbollah was clearly well prepared and executed a carefully thought out war.

Right, because they should pay for Israel's land?