Wait, you or the US army?
Um no, but Palestinains are just as much a victim of the other Arabs who exploit their suffering and neglect them.Bubbalo wrote:
Right, because they should pay for Israel's land?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Just me. If I showed up and tried to conquer your property.Bubbalo wrote:
Wait, you or the US army?
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?Kmarion wrote:
Um no, but Palestinains are just as much a victim of the other Arabs who exploit their suffering and neglect them.Bubbalo wrote:
Right, because they should pay for Israel's land?
Probably you, because I'm very, very weak.Cougar wrote:
Just me. If I showed up and tried to conquer your property.Bubbalo wrote:
Wait, you or the US army?
But I see what you're getting at now.
The thing is, Israel really had every advantage (they knew the land pretty well because it was right next to them), especially in that they had a far superior army. So, yes, Hezbollah used the land to their advantage, but that's what I meant by careful planning.
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.Bubbalo wrote:
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?Kmarion wrote:
Um no, but Palestinains are just as much a victim of the other Arabs who exploit their suffering and neglect them.Bubbalo wrote:
Right, because they should pay for Israel's land?
It's not always "Victims of Zionism". Look at Lebanon, look at what happened in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit … direct=yes
Gaza Strip situation following Israeli withdrawal
In December 2006, news reports indicated that a number of Palestinians were leaving the Gaza Strip, due to political disorder and economic stagnation there.
In January 2007, fighting continued between Hamas and Fatah, without any progress towards resolution or reconciliation. The worst clashes occurred in the northern Gaza Strip, where Gen. Muhammed Gharib, a senior commander of the Fatah-dominated Preventative Security Force, was killed when a rocket hit his home. Gharib's two daughters and two bodyguards were also killed in the attack, which was carried out by Hamas gunmen.
At the end of January 2007, it appeared that a newly-negotiated truce between Fatah and Hamas was starting to take hold . However, after a few days, new fighting broke out. Fatah fighters stormed a Hamas-affiliated university in the Gaza Strip. Officers from Abbas' presidential guard battled Hamas gunmen guarding the Hamas-led Interior Ministry.
In May 2007, the deal between Hamas and Fatah appeared to be weaker, as new fighting broke out between the factions. This was considered a major setback. Interior Minister Hani Qawasmi, who had been considered a moderate civil servant acceptable to both factions, resigned due to what he termed harmful behavior by both factions.
Fighting widened to several points in the Gaza Strip with both factions attacking vehicles and facilities of the other side. In response to constant attacks by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched an airstrike which destroyed a building used by Hamas. Some Palestinians said the violence could bring the end of the Fatah-Hamas coalition government, and possibly the end of the Palestinian authority.
Hamas spokeman Moussa Abu Marzouk stated that Israel and the EU were to blame for the worsening situation. As the situation worsened and his government was on the verge of collapse, he indicated no acceptance of the idea that maybe the way to give the Palestinian people a better life is by working towards some form of mutual recognition and acceptance, instead of just continuing to call for more conflict and war. Expressions of concerns were received from many Arab leaders, with many offering to try to help by doing some diplomatic work between the two factions. One journalist wrote an eyewitness account stating:
Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Saudi Arabia is funding Hamas, maybe not the smartest thing to do, but they help, like the US is helping Israel. What's your point? Why should Saudi Arabia build a city for Palestinians, when Palestinians have their own land, but they aren't free to be a country only because Israel has the US support.Kmarion wrote:
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.Bubbalo wrote:
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?Kmarion wrote:
Um no, but Palestinains are just as much a victim of the other Arabs who exploit their suffering and neglect them.
Wait a min so you are saying it's ok to steal land cause they Arabs and have to much. So if the Russian let's hypothetically they invade California. Then it's ok for them to keep cause American is so big.Kmarion wrote:
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.Bubbalo wrote:
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?Kmarion wrote:
Um no, but Palestinains are just as much a victim of the other Arabs who exploit their suffering and neglect them.
It's not always "Victims of Zionism". Look at Lebanon, look at what happened in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit … direct=yes
Gaza Strip situation following Israeli withdrawal
In December 2006, news reports indicated that a number of Palestinians were leaving the Gaza Strip, due to political disorder and economic stagnation there.
In January 2007, fighting continued between Hamas and Fatah, without any progress towards resolution or reconciliation. The worst clashes occurred in the northern Gaza Strip, where Gen. Muhammed Gharib, a senior commander of the Fatah-dominated Preventative Security Force, was killed when a rocket hit his home. Gharib's two daughters and two bodyguards were also killed in the attack, which was carried out by Hamas gunmen.
At the end of January 2007, it appeared that a newly-negotiated truce between Fatah and Hamas was starting to take hold . However, after a few days, new fighting broke out. Fatah fighters stormed a Hamas-affiliated university in the Gaza Strip. Officers from Abbas' presidential guard battled Hamas gunmen guarding the Hamas-led Interior Ministry.
In May 2007, the deal between Hamas and Fatah appeared to be weaker, as new fighting broke out between the factions. This was considered a major setback. Interior Minister Hani Qawasmi, who had been considered a moderate civil servant acceptable to both factions, resigned due to what he termed harmful behavior by both factions.
Fighting widened to several points in the Gaza Strip with both factions attacking vehicles and facilities of the other side. In response to constant attacks by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched an airstrike which destroyed a building used by Hamas. Some Palestinians said the violence could bring the end of the Fatah-Hamas coalition government, and possibly the end of the Palestinian authority.
Hamas spokeman Moussa Abu Marzouk stated that Israel and the EU were to blame for the worsening situation. As the situation worsened and his government was on the verge of collapse, he indicated no acceptance of the idea that maybe the way to give the Palestinian people a better life is by working towards some form of mutual recognition and acceptance, instead of just continuing to call for more conflict and war. Expressions of concerns were received from many Arab leaders, with many offering to try to help by doing some diplomatic work between the two factions. One journalist wrote an eyewitness account stating:
Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.
Helping people out should not be conditional of the circumstances that brought them to your need. If you pretend to weep for them as much as their Arab brethren does you would try to assist them in any manner. They should be dealing more with the immediate. Some people are incapable of self blame and require the Zionist and Great Satan to excuse away their failings in all circumstances.sergeriver wrote:
Saudi Arabia is funding Hamas, maybe not the smartest thing to do, but they help, like the US is helping Israel. What's your point? Why should Saudi Arabia build a city for Palestinians, when Palestinians have their own land, but they aren't free to be a country only because Israel has the US support.Kmarion wrote:
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.Bubbalo wrote:
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?
It was George Bush who endorsed the withdrawal in 2005 that led to all the chaos in Gaza. (Along with 50 million dollars for housing reconstruction).
bogo24dk you missed the point so far I don't even know how to respond to you.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Russia is bigger than America dumbass.bogo24dk wrote:
Wait a min so you are saying it's ok to steal land cause they Arabs and have to much. So if the Russian let's hypothetically they invade California. Then it's ok for them to keep cause American is so big.Kmarion wrote:
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.Bubbalo wrote:
The suffering and neglect which wouldn't exist without Israel? The Arabs are responsible for that suffering and neglect?
It's not always "Victims of Zionism". Look at Lebanon, look at what happened in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit … direct=yes
Gaza Strip situation following Israeli withdrawal
In December 2006, news reports indicated that a number of Palestinians were leaving the Gaza Strip, due to political disorder and economic stagnation there.
In January 2007, fighting continued between Hamas and Fatah, without any progress towards resolution or reconciliation. The worst clashes occurred in the northern Gaza Strip, where Gen. Muhammed Gharib, a senior commander of the Fatah-dominated Preventative Security Force, was killed when a rocket hit his home. Gharib's two daughters and two bodyguards were also killed in the attack, which was carried out by Hamas gunmen.
At the end of January 2007, it appeared that a newly-negotiated truce between Fatah and Hamas was starting to take hold . However, after a few days, new fighting broke out. Fatah fighters stormed a Hamas-affiliated university in the Gaza Strip. Officers from Abbas' presidential guard battled Hamas gunmen guarding the Hamas-led Interior Ministry.
In May 2007, the deal between Hamas and Fatah appeared to be weaker, as new fighting broke out between the factions. This was considered a major setback. Interior Minister Hani Qawasmi, who had been considered a moderate civil servant acceptable to both factions, resigned due to what he termed harmful behavior by both factions.
Fighting widened to several points in the Gaza Strip with both factions attacking vehicles and facilities of the other side. In response to constant attacks by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched an airstrike which destroyed a building used by Hamas. Some Palestinians said the violence could bring the end of the Fatah-Hamas coalition government, and possibly the end of the Palestinian authority.
Hamas spokeman Moussa Abu Marzouk stated that Israel and the EU were to blame for the worsening situation. As the situation worsened and his government was on the verge of collapse, he indicated no acceptance of the idea that maybe the way to give the Palestinian people a better life is by working towards some form of mutual recognition and acceptance, instead of just continuing to call for more conflict and war. Expressions of concerns were received from many Arab leaders, with many offering to try to help by doing some diplomatic work between the two factions. One journalist wrote an eyewitness account stating:
Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.
OMGCougar wrote:
Russia is bigger than America dumbass.bogo24dk wrote:
Wait a min so you are saying it's ok to steal land cause they Arabs and have to much. So if the Russian let's hypothetically they invade California. Then it's ok for them to keep cause American is so big.Kmarion wrote:
Suffering= no, exploitation= yes, neglect= to some degree. If the Saudis love the Palestinians so much, why not build a model city in the Kingdom for the 400,000 or so stranded in Lebanon? There is something wrong with systematically mourning the dead and yet doing nothing to protect them.
It's not always "Victims of Zionism". Look at Lebanon, look at what happened in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit … direct=yes
Gaza Strip situation following Israeli withdrawal
In December 2006, news reports indicated that a number of Palestinians were leaving the Gaza Strip, due to political disorder and economic stagnation there.
In January 2007, fighting continued between Hamas and Fatah, without any progress towards resolution or reconciliation. The worst clashes occurred in the northern Gaza Strip, where Gen. Muhammed Gharib, a senior commander of the Fatah-dominated Preventative Security Force, was killed when a rocket hit his home. Gharib's two daughters and two bodyguards were also killed in the attack, which was carried out by Hamas gunmen.
At the end of January 2007, it appeared that a newly-negotiated truce between Fatah and Hamas was starting to take hold . However, after a few days, new fighting broke out. Fatah fighters stormed a Hamas-affiliated university in the Gaza Strip. Officers from Abbas' presidential guard battled Hamas gunmen guarding the Hamas-led Interior Ministry.
In May 2007, the deal between Hamas and Fatah appeared to be weaker, as new fighting broke out between the factions. This was considered a major setback. Interior Minister Hani Qawasmi, who had been considered a moderate civil servant acceptable to both factions, resigned due to what he termed harmful behavior by both factions.
Fighting widened to several points in the Gaza Strip with both factions attacking vehicles and facilities of the other side. In response to constant attacks by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched an airstrike which destroyed a building used by Hamas. Some Palestinians said the violence could bring the end of the Fatah-Hamas coalition government, and possibly the end of the Palestinian authority.
Hamas spokeman Moussa Abu Marzouk stated that Israel and the EU were to blame for the worsening situation. As the situation worsened and his government was on the verge of collapse, he indicated no acceptance of the idea that maybe the way to give the Palestinian people a better life is by working towards some form of mutual recognition and acceptance, instead of just continuing to call for more conflict and war. Expressions of concerns were received from many Arab leaders, with many offering to try to help by doing some diplomatic work between the two factions. One journalist wrote an eyewitness account stating:
Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.
It was a hypothetical question. For your sake let's say it's danmark who invades it.
How did you get the impression that I thought it was ok to steal land?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Since you are so egar to blame the arbas for what they do or not do. And don't see the root of the problem as the main problem. And that Israel is stealing land and the only home they have is Palestine's. Not Dubai or saudia Arabia.Kmarion wrote:
How did you get the impression that I thought it was ok to steal land?
I am eager to explain what I see as the entire situation. I am capable of dishing blame out to everyone who does or does not do anything to help. I am not blinded by a single ideology that requires me to look in only one direction.bogo24dk wrote:
Since you are so egar to blame the arbas for what they do or not do. And don't see the root of the problem as the main problem. And that Israel is stealing land and the only home they have is Palestine's. Not Dubai or saudia Arabia.Kmarion wrote:
How did you get the impression that I thought it was ok to steal land?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Then enlighten me with your view on how do you see the Palestinian situation when it comes to Israel ?Kmarion wrote:
I am eager to explain what I see as the entire situation. I am capable of dishing blame out to everyone who does or does not do anything to help. I am not blinded by a single ideology that requires me to look in only one direction.bogo24dk wrote:
Since you are so egar to blame the arbas for what they do or not do. And don't see the root of the problem as the main problem. And that Israel is stealing land and the only home they have is Palestine's. Not Dubai or saudia Arabia.Kmarion wrote:
How did you get the impression that I thought it was ok to steal land?
Eh - Serge and I will definitely not stop trying, why?Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Anyone got a feeling of deja vu? I mean, you guys are pretty much saying the exact same thing you've been saying in every other Israel vs Palestine thread. How much more is it going to take before you realize you're not going to change anyone's mind?
-konfusion
Denmark may be too big, I mean California is big, but doesn't Denmark have colonies and/or annexes around the world, I think it would be more logical to suggest that perhaps the Luxembourgian Army or perhaps the Vatican Guard invaded California, but I doubt they would make it through South Central L.A. in one piece. Especially in those little outfits they have to wear, plus I think a Glock or a Mac10 can defeat a spear rather easily. But how would you suggest they sail around to get to California? Perhaps through the Panama Canal or around India? I mean, come on man, the logistics just don't add up. I don't think the economy of Luxembourg or the Vatican would be able to support the logistical, energy and economical deficits that the state has acquired, such a move could be devastating to an occupying army that has supply lines stretched 3 quarters the distance around the globe. We haven't even gone into the problems of air superiority, I mean, how to the Luxembourgian's expect to control the airspace around LAX? What about Ahhnold? Do you think he will just stand around while some Vatican guard in a purple and blue tutu waltz's into the capital building and demands the capital be turned over to the pope? What about a vicious power struggle between the Vatican and Luxembourg to control the agricultural regions versus the urban areas? Which would be more profitable to either side to hold? Detrimental to hold?bogo24dk wrote:
OMG
It was a hypothetical question. For your sake let's say it's danmark who invades it.
You should really think your idea's through more. Sheer lunacy. Also.....where is Danmark? Is that like, one of those cute names the media came up with for a gay couple, like Bennifer or TomKat?
LoLCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Sergeriver alone has produced a massive volume of the same Israel vs Palestine threads. You'd think he'd have something better to do with his time at age 35.
Last edited by Cougar (2007-05-31 10:43:38)
I love how people casually ignore the fact that Hamas directly targets civilians. Not to mention they put their own civilians at risk by launching attacks from their neighborhoods. All of those civilian deaths listed in the title of this thread are Hamas's fault.
How can anyone support this?
Get out of you diluted "Israel is stealing land" cloud and actually look at what Palestine is doing. Whether or not there will be peace is Palestine's decision, not Israel's. Even if Israel ceases retaliation from Hamas's attacks and even ceases all military action in the region, the rockets will still keep flying.
How can anyone support this?
Get out of you diluted "Israel is stealing land" cloud and actually look at what Palestine is doing. Whether or not there will be peace is Palestine's decision, not Israel's. Even if Israel ceases retaliation from Hamas's attacks and even ceases all military action in the region, the rockets will still keep flying.
Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt (2007-05-31 10:46:54)
Who is supporting the means? No-one. We're supporting the just ends.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
How can anyone support this?
Get out of you diluted "Israel is stealing land" cloud and actually look at what Palestine is doing. Whether or not there will be peace is Palestine's decision, not Israel's. Even if Israel ceases retaliation from Hamas's attacks and all military action in the region, the rockets will still keep flying.
And Hamas have successfully observed ceasefires in the past, for the record.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-31 10:48:23)
That means that Israel pwn'd those noobs.CameronPoe wrote:
Not that two wrongs (one big wrong, one small wrong) make a right but I wonder how many Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinian terrorists in 2006 - I'd say less than 20.
guess that is what happens when you throw rocks at somebody bigger than you. Israel FTW!!!!!
I feel Israel needs to withdraw. At the same time the Palestinians need to get a grip on their extremist and work on their internal conflicts. I'm certain a repeat of 2005 would happen and Palestinians would suffer at the hands of shocker Palestinians. However, that's their fate for the choosing.bogo24dk wrote:
Then enlighten me with your view on how do you see the Palestinian situation when it comes to Israel ?Kmarion wrote:
I am eager to explain what I see as the entire situation. I am capable of dishing blame out to everyone who does or does not do anything to help. I am not blinded by a single ideology that requires me to look in only one direction.bogo24dk wrote:
Since you are so egar to blame the arbas for what they do or not do. And don't see the root of the problem as the main problem. And that Israel is stealing land and the only home they have is Palestine's. Not Dubai or saudia Arabia.
You still have a hard time understanding the point I was intending to make. The so called sympathizers could be doing more for the victims in this conflict. If a friend of mine was in a car accident involving a drunk driver and needed my help I would do whatever I could. The fact the other driver was wrong and should not have been drinking and driving would not excuse me from helping (If I really cared about them).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
WHY HELLO THAR IGNORANT STUPIDITY, HOW NICE TOO SEE U AGAIN!Lotta_Drool wrote:
That means that Israel pwn'd those noobs.CameronPoe wrote:
Not that two wrongs (one big wrong, one small wrong) make a right but I wonder how many Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinian terrorists in 2006 - I'd say less than 20.
guess that is what happens when you throw rocks at somebody bigger than you. Israel FTW!!!!!
That's just so easy for a country that's been at war (on the losing side) for 60 years, isn't it?Kmarion wrote:
At the same time the Palestinians need to get a grip on their extremist
-konfusion
It is what's needed, easy or not. The extremist targets/violence extends beyond the West and Israel also.konfusion wrote:
That's just so easy for a country that's been at war (on the losing side) for 60 years, isn't it?Kmarion wrote:
At the same time the Palestinians need to get a grip on their extremist
-konfusion
Xbone Stormsurgezz
It was never their land they just occupied it, it was land acquired by WWII, the united nations handed it to the British to make a permanent settlement for the Jews, they refused & the Jews stepped in on the last day & declared themselves a nation. The land rights belong to Israel period, Palestinians need to make peace or get the fuck out.bogo24dk wrote:
Hamas is the least of the problem. Cause with hamas or no hamas the Israelis still don't think it's favorable for them to make a peace which in term means giving land back to the Palestinians.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
You think Palestine would get a clue and do something about Hamas.
Is that true?TrollmeaT wrote:
It was never their land they just occupied it, it was land acquired by WWII, the united nations handed it to the British to make a permanent settlement for the Jews, they refused & the Jews stepped in on the last day & declared themselves a nation. The land rights belong to Israel period, Palestinians need to make peace or get the fuck out.bogo24dk wrote:
Hamas is the least of the problem. Cause with hamas or no hamas the Israelis still don't think it's favorable for them to make a peace which in term means giving land back to the Palestinians.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
You think Palestine would get a clue and do something about Hamas.