BF2S Forums 47% of Americans Think Israel is Justified in Killing Civilians

konfusion wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

OMG I agree........never thought id see the day..................If this is possible then maybe the middle east can be sorted out too.

How about some karma then?? jesus

Fine

-konfusion

I don't know what to say, except +1.

konfusion wrote:

analogy to Germany: Did the Nazis represent their whole population? I don't think so.
...

The Nazis dictated Germany's policies just like the extremist groups are doing so in Palestine.

And you want me to support the plight of people who support extremist groups.

Hitler definitely was a mistake, and so is Hamas, imo.

-konfusion

Just as an aside; I don't think the Nazi party was ever elected into power by the Germans were they? They had a few success in the early 30's but they never had control of the Reichstag. Hitler was invited to become Chancellor by Hindenburg and Hindenburg also signed numerous laws (including the Reichstag Fire Decree in '33 i think) helping the Nazi's along the way.

The Palestinians have voted the extremists in, the Germans didn't. Still a mistake? Time will tell but i don't think you can't blame the Palestinians for trying another party in power when they feel themselves to be under siege.

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Perhaps you would like to respond to them usmarine, given that you are in such complete agreement with this guy?

You write too much.

Did you mis me? Been in San francisco on shitty business. Anyway he can write as much as he likes its a forum for petes sake.

Oh and I guess the 1-2 ATG and USmango2005 still goin on - lol. Wonder where ATG is, guess he is well lurking in this thread?

Btw great thread.

ummm......ok.

konfusion wrote:

Well, when I took history, I was taught that the "National Socialist Party" was elected in - just as Hitler was. So they're essentially the same. Oh, and corrected (you had a double negative there).

-konfusion

Wow is that who the National Socialists were!? Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Did your history include the Reichstag Fire Decree & the Enabling Act? Cos if it did you'd know that before the March '33 election both were enforced to enable Hitler to wipe out the Communist opposition. Lets keep in mind that the main party contesting the majority with the NSDAP was the Communist KPD. I don't know how much you know about the political landscape in the UK, but its like saying Labour won the election after the Tories got banned from taking part. Whilst technically accurate, somewhat lacking in substance don't you think?

And even after removing the Communists and intimidating the other opposition party through several days of riots, the NSDAP still only came away with a slim majority.

So you tell me, is an election without one of the major political forces an accurate representation of the German populace? And how does that election compare to the Palestinian one? I was under the impression that anyone could put themselves forward, regardless of ideology; is that not the case?

konfusion wrote:

Dunno - maybe my Swiss history class was biased, but that's pretty much how I learned it.

I was pointing out that desperate times call for desperate measures. The radical one who can present the most opportunities will always be voted for in times like these, no matter the moral costs.

-konfusion

And I completely agree with you; my issue was not with the point you were making, more the analogy you chose to express it. The "election" that the Nazi's "won" wasn't a fair reflection of the German people's views. I think that the Palestinian election was however and if anything that demonstrates the dire straits they find themselves in

Pug wrote:

So, in other words, the people are responsible for the actions of their leaders, unless they are Palestinian?

No - I don't hold Germany responsible for what the Nazis did. Don't have any idea where you got that from. Are your "reading between the lines" again?

-konfusion

Pug wrote:

Ummm, no.  Every book about WWII talks about the fact that war was declared against Germany and vice versa...not Nazis.  If I use your logic, the Democrats (which is different then "Americans") were responsible for entering and an allied victory in WWII because FDR was president.

A country's leadership is not segregated from it's people, unless it's a total wingnut scenario.  If initiated or elected or empowered by the people, the leadership's agenda is a reflection on the people.  Hamas were brought to power by the people, who knew full well their intentions prior to putting them there.

The German people empowered the Nazi party to unite traditional Germanic lands...and it kind of spilled over.  So no, I don't make the distinction like you do.

For instance, if an Israeli was in Lebanon - do you think they'd buy the "hey...it's not me...it's the government"?  So, whether you believe they are responsible or not, they are held accountable for their leaders actions.

Then it just so happens that I disagree. Not all Germans were Nazis, and not all Nazis hated Jews. Just as not all Israelis are soldiers, and not all Israeli soldiers want Palestine off the map (I hope). The same thing goes on for Palestinians. So I guess we can agree to disagree.

-konfusion