Given that Europe is technologically more advanced and the fact that France and the UK have nuclear weapons I reckon we're pretty safe, although it would be horribly messy.
I think countries like Finland, Norway and Sweden would also be faced with the Russians, remember how the Finnish used to fight them back in the old days? Still in terms of manpower, maybe, technology, still maybe but not certain. Russia's original rush tactics are what would give them the upper hand.
Russia pr date is no threat for any European country, their forces are underpaid and highly demotivated to fight any war and they lack funding for driving their partially rusty equipment any further than the Baltic states.
Last edited by Varegg (2007-06-04 12:42:44)
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Although the above may be true, Russia still has one of the largest Nuclear weapons storeage.
russia would probably destroy most of europe but maybe not win the war, nobody wins a war.
Its strange, in the book I'm writing the Russians invade all the Eastern European countries in 2012 and they start a military buildup at the end of 2007! Unlikely to happen in RL though.
What about WW1 and its sequel WW2Ruckel wrote:
russia would probably destroy most of europe but maybe not win the war, nobody wins a war.
Last edited by M.O.A.B (2007-06-04 12:49:20)
Do the Russians have access to Tesla Tanks? How about Mammoth Tanks? History tells us those tanks can make a difference.
Anyone catch this reference here?
Anyone catch this reference here?
C&C Series ftw!
EDIT - forgot to answer the OP. I think, in a purely conventional war, with no aid (financial or military) from the US, Europe could not hold back from the Russias. Put up a valiant defense yes, and by no means would it be a quick and painless victory for the Russians, but Russia would prevail. Even though EU tech is far more advanced than RUS tech, remember : for every 1 outdated russian tank the EU takes out with a high tech, costly missile, there are 50 more outdated tanks to replace it. Superior numbers would also factor into it financially - EU tech is effective, but extremely costly -- regardless of a range, precision, or warhead size, it would be too expensive the produce enough weapons to take out enough armor to stop an invasion.
Think of back to WW2, and the Battle of Britain -- yes, the UK did hold out (kudos for you guys), but that was against Germany, which is much smaller than russia, and the UK had some serious US foreign aid. Also, consider the remnants of Cold War - era Soviet puppet government officials -- maybe they wouldn't hate an invasion, and would instead welcome it as a chance for them to regain past glory. I see the Warsaw Pact nations as being mere bumps on the Red Army's march to Paris, Berlin, and London. Germany would provide perhaps the strongest resistance, since they possess some of the most powerful and advanced technology, but again, it will be too few, too late. It'll be a long war, but without US support, Europe would invariably fall, or at least thrown into a century of chaos and disorder.
EDIT - forgot to answer the OP. I think, in a purely conventional war, with no aid (financial or military) from the US, Europe could not hold back from the Russias. Put up a valiant defense yes, and by no means would it be a quick and painless victory for the Russians, but Russia would prevail. Even though EU tech is far more advanced than RUS tech, remember : for every 1 outdated russian tank the EU takes out with a high tech, costly missile, there are 50 more outdated tanks to replace it. Superior numbers would also factor into it financially - EU tech is effective, but extremely costly -- regardless of a range, precision, or warhead size, it would be too expensive the produce enough weapons to take out enough armor to stop an invasion.
Think of back to WW2, and the Battle of Britain -- yes, the UK did hold out (kudos for you guys), but that was against Germany, which is much smaller than russia, and the UK had some serious US foreign aid. Also, consider the remnants of Cold War - era Soviet puppet government officials -- maybe they wouldn't hate an invasion, and would instead welcome it as a chance for them to regain past glory. I see the Warsaw Pact nations as being mere bumps on the Red Army's march to Paris, Berlin, and London. Germany would provide perhaps the strongest resistance, since they possess some of the most powerful and advanced technology, but again, it will be too few, too late. It'll be a long war, but without US support, Europe would invariably fall, or at least thrown into a century of chaos and disorder.
Last edited by R0lyP0ly (2007-06-04 17:41:34)
Don't the Germans or the British have some AWAC's? I cant remember.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
I'm not sure if NATO's combined air forces would be able to stand up to Russia's. Air superiority would certainly be key in this type of conflict.
If the Russians were allied with another country and could win a quick, decisive victory then possibly. Right now however they're too weak and too broke to fight a prolonged engagement on multiple fronts.
Exactly, the fact that both sides have nukes means we are once again in Dr. Strangelove territory.CameronPoe wrote:
Given that Europe is technologically more advanced and the fact that France and the UK have nuclear weapons I reckon we're pretty safe, although it would be horribly messy.
I have to say I'm a little annoyed that the US has made us end up as the hostage in this situation ...and of course Poland and the Czech Rep. for helping them do so. I still don't think anything will actually happen though, it's tough talk as usual.
Eurofighter > most russian aircraft.Commie Killer wrote:
Don't the Germans or the British have some AWAC's? I cant remember.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
I'm not sure if NATO's combined air forces would be able to stand up to Russia's. Air superiority would certainly be key in this type of conflict.
I'll have you know that in Germany, Japan & The Soviet Union they're reffered to as "International Civil War 1 & 2"M.O.A.B wrote:
Its strange, in the book I'm writing the Russians invade all the Eastern European countries in 2012 and they start a military buildup at the end of 2007! Unlikely to happen in RL though.What about WW1 and its sequel WW2Ruckel wrote:
russia would probably destroy most of europe but maybe not win the war, nobody wins a war.
Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/kCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Hypothetical situation:
Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?
Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
I bet you France are itching for a chance to do something about their dismal reputation on the battlefield! Put a tenner on them, you'd get good odds.RDMC(2) wrote:
Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/kCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Hypothetical situation:
Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?
Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
rofl +1RDMC(2) wrote:
Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/kCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Hypothetical situation:
Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?
Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
Dont forget that Russians are able to fight in toughest conditions; their mentality is way too different from Europes, so when it comes to war, most of Europe forces will lack morale, toughness etc (except German), when for Russians it would be enough with warm boots and vodka+bread.
I am just joking, but I still give Europe a fairly good chance, first Russia has to fight through Eastern Europe, probably meeting heavy resistance, while the Western Countries makes ready for war. The russian army is a higly demotivated army, whilst Western Europe armies are made up of professional, highly trained soldiers with better equipment, and I as just read, we also have nukes..whoopieBraddock wrote:
I bet you France are itching for a chance to do something about their dismal reputation on the battlefield! Put a tenner on them, you'd get good odds.RDMC(2) wrote:
Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/kCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Hypothetical situation:
Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?
Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
Is it not the other way around, Russia being demotivated?sdlettonieCZLV wrote:
rofl +1RDMC(2) wrote:
Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/kCerpin_Taxt wrote:
Hypothetical situation:
Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?
Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
Dont forget that Russians are able to fight in toughest conditions; their mentality is way too different from Europes, so when it comes to war, most of Europe forces will lack morale, toughness etc (except German), when for Russians it would be enough with warm boots and vodka+bread.
Crappy tanks, have the quality of Jet fighter but not a quantity of them. Russian government, odds stacked against them. Not to mention fighting a war they don't want to be in.
Europe would win, probably loose alot of men/equipment ,wouldn't be worth it for either side, Tbh.
Pffttt....
so no war?
/leaves the army
j/k
I would rather fight against US than Russia, just because its better being in captivity in some Florida camp than Siberia...
/leaves the army
j/k
I would rather fight against US than Russia, just because its better being in captivity in some Florida camp than Siberia...
" Without nukes involving, yeah I actually think we might stand a chance. We have the Eurofighter typhoon, one of the most agile planes in the world, the Leopard II tank. One of the best, if not THE best tank in the world. We do have a weakness..yes, you guessed it, the french! Aah! we surrendaar! j/k "
just so you know the Leopard 2 (can't find the roman numerals, well that and i can't be bothered to find them) anyway the leopard 2 tank and the british challenger 2 tank both have the same main gun, which is the exact same one that the M1A2 abrams uses just the leopard has less armour than the challenger 2 and the abrams so its faster so to be quite honest at least of the big eu nations have very similar tanks and other such weapons.
people are also forgetting the fact that Britains an island which would make it on its own a hell of a lot harder to invade and we also have a very large navy, though granted there's not much a navy can do when the enemies fighting inland apart from to act as a home base and refueling station for aircraft.
but thats just my opinion and your all free to destroy it.
just so you know the Leopard 2 (can't find the roman numerals, well that and i can't be bothered to find them) anyway the leopard 2 tank and the british challenger 2 tank both have the same main gun, which is the exact same one that the M1A2 abrams uses just the leopard has less armour than the challenger 2 and the abrams so its faster so to be quite honest at least of the big eu nations have very similar tanks and other such weapons.
people are also forgetting the fact that Britains an island which would make it on its own a hell of a lot harder to invade and we also have a very large navy, though granted there's not much a navy can do when the enemies fighting inland apart from to act as a home base and refueling station for aircraft.
but thats just my opinion and your all free to destroy it.
Last edited by Noobeater (2007-06-04 14:00:51)
Could Earth defeat Mars if we were invaded?
GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Could Earth defeat Mars if we were invaded?
We kinda allready did in War of the Worlds and Mars Attacks (tnx usmarine)... duhGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Could Earth defeat Mars if we were invaded?
Last edited by Varegg (2007-06-04 14:08:52)
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
We just need some yodelling music and the common cold and we're good to go.Varegg wrote:
We kinda allready did in War of the Worlds and Mars Attacks (tnx usmarine)... duhGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Could Earth defeat Mars if we were invaded?