I think you mean hypocrisy.
And how am I guilty of it?
And how am I guilty of it?
I don't know if anyone has addressed this in a good way, but I'm too pissed to give a damn.Inspect@hDeck wrote:
The world would be almost exactly the same as it would be today. The Americans didn't do much in WW1, and in WW2, you guys played a significantly larger part, but were still not necessary for the good guys to win. You won a lot of battles sure, but few actually contributed to the outcome.
Inspect@hDeck, you are terribly uninformed. Do you anything of WWII history at all other than D-Day? What I am about to say is not arrogance, but historical truth:
Without America in WWII Europe and the world would be a hell of a lot different.
No America ever in the Second World War:
Forget about Lend-Lease, it's ended.
British are thrown out of the desert, Malta abandoned;
Therefore, Greece and the Balkans (or even any part of the Mediterranean) are no longer a threat (of Allied invasion) in Hitler's mind, and now he has more units to fit in the opening stages of Barbarossa. Even though logistics would still be horrendous, Stalingrad is taken, Paulus crosses the Volga, therefore preventing supplies from Britain getting to the USSR from the Caspian Sea. Oh, and now some more oil for his panzers. The Soviet Union's nerve center (Moscow) is eventually taken. And finally, the Soviets have been defeated.
USSR is defeated, Hitler can now take the Middle East from the few British troops that may or may not be still there. More oil for der Fuehrer.
America still not in the war? Because the British have no hope of an amphibious invasion that only they can pull off (meaning with only British troops) French resistance slowly breaks down.
There goes one less thorn in Hitler's side.
And that's just the European Theatre.
Yamamoto decides not to attack Pearl Harbor, Japanese/American relations are patched up (somehow). Japan dominates the Pacific.
In short, America was VERY necessary for victory. And, on the off chance you do know a bit more about WWII history (which I highly doubt you do) I'm willing to bet you think the Soviet Union could have won it all by themselves. If this is so, know that all but. . .oh, 2 or 3 scholars are against you.
I heard you guys talking numbers..here are a few from WWII
Deaths among civilians—many resulting from famine and internal purges, such as those in China and the USSR—were colossal, but they were less well documented than those among fighting forces. These figures are best available from authoritative sources, but the precise numbers will never be known.
WORLD WAR II: THE TOP TEN
Countries that suffered the greatest military losses
COUNTRY KILLED
1. USSR 13,600,000*
2. Germany 3,300,000
3. China 1,324,516
4. Japan 1,140,429
5. British Empire** 357,116
6. Romania 350,000
7. Poland 320,000
8. Yugoslavia 305,000
9. United States 292,131
10. Italy 279,800
*Total, of which 7.8 million were battlefield deaths, 2.5 million were later deaths from wounds and disease, and 3.3 million were prisoner-of-war deaths. **Including Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, etc.
Countries with the largest armed forces of World War II
*At peak strength
COUNTRY PERSONELL*
1. USSR 12,500,000
2. United States 12,304,000
3. Germany 10,000,000
4. Japan 6,095,000
5. France 5,700,000
6. United Kingdom 4,683,000
7. Italy 4,500,000
8. China 3,800,000
9. India 2,150,000
10. Poland 1,000,000
Allowing for deaths and casualties, the total forces mobilized during the course of the war is, of course, greater than the peak strength figures: The total for the USSR, for example, has been put as high as 20,000,000; the U.S. - 16,354,000; Germany - 17,900,000; Japan - 9,100,000; and the UK - 5,896,000.
SOURCES: National Archives and Records Administration; U.S. Army; American Memory (http://memory. loc.gov)
Deaths among civilians—many resulting from famine and internal purges, such as those in China and the USSR—were colossal, but they were less well documented than those among fighting forces. These figures are best available from authoritative sources, but the precise numbers will never be known.
WORLD WAR II: THE TOP TEN
Countries that suffered the greatest military losses
COUNTRY KILLED
1. USSR 13,600,000*
2. Germany 3,300,000
3. China 1,324,516
4. Japan 1,140,429
5. British Empire** 357,116
6. Romania 350,000
7. Poland 320,000
8. Yugoslavia 305,000
9. United States 292,131
10. Italy 279,800
*Total, of which 7.8 million were battlefield deaths, 2.5 million were later deaths from wounds and disease, and 3.3 million were prisoner-of-war deaths. **Including Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, etc.
Countries with the largest armed forces of World War II
*At peak strength
COUNTRY PERSONELL*
1. USSR 12,500,000
2. United States 12,304,000
3. Germany 10,000,000
4. Japan 6,095,000
5. France 5,700,000
6. United Kingdom 4,683,000
7. Italy 4,500,000
8. China 3,800,000
9. India 2,150,000
10. Poland 1,000,000
Allowing for deaths and casualties, the total forces mobilized during the course of the war is, of course, greater than the peak strength figures: The total for the USSR, for example, has been put as high as 20,000,000; the U.S. - 16,354,000; Germany - 17,900,000; Japan - 9,100,000; and the UK - 5,896,000.
SOURCES: National Archives and Records Administration; U.S. Army; American Memory (http://memory. loc.gov)
you do know this thread was started to remember America's war dead, right?
No, it was started because ATG wanted to make us all feel guilty for criticising the US whilst linking Iraq to WWII in one fell swoop.
It failed miserably.
It failed miserably.
If you really think that's all it was about Lizzard I must disown you.
seriously people fuck off about politics.. who cares what a war is about the soldiers dont choose what wars to fight they just do it. All it is is about simply running a thought through your head saying thanks for serving or shame you had to fuckin die not something to cause abuncha ignorant dumasses to go into a political rant.
You, erm, do realize that this is the Debate and Serious Talk section, right?
Without political rants we might as well have one big Junk Drawer.
Without political rants we might as well have one big Junk Drawer.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Memorial day just passed in the U.S, so ATG decided to post a topic (last year) showing tribute to fallen American soldiers from wars that span the century and the world. But, apparently, no country, especially the U.S., is allowed to be proud or to remember their soldiers or they are trying to "link" a war that happened in the 40's to a war happening today. This topic shouldn't even be in D&ST, because it's non-debatable as far as I'm concerned, you don't bash another countries fallen especially from a country that is one of your biggest allies!Bubbalo wrote:
No, it was started because ATG wanted to make us all feel guilty for criticising the US whilst linking Iraq to WWII in one fell swoop.
It failed miserably.
How would you like it if I said "Fuck those dirtbag Aussies that fought at Tobruk and Gallipoli, I don't owe them a damn thing and they bite my ass."
Or perhaps, how would a Brit like it if I said "Fuck the limey British assholes who fought at Dunkirk and over the skys of Britain, what a bunch of fags."
You don't say shit like that. You're out of line saying it and it makes you looks like a jackass at best. If you don't have anything nice to say about another countries fallen, then GTFO and find an Israel thread to bitch in.
Welcome to the Debate and Serious TalkPw.Sultan wrote:
seriously people fuck off about politics.. who cares what a war is about the soldiers dont choose what wars to fight they just do it. All it is is about simply running a thought through your head saying thanks for serving or shame you had to fuckin die not something to cause abuncha ignorant dumasses to go into a political rant.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...fucking owned.Cougar wrote:
What the fuck is wrong with you? Memorial day just passed in the U.S, so ATG decided to post a topic (last year) showing tribute to fallen American soldiers from wars that span the century and the world. But, apparently, no country, especially the U.S., is allowed to be proud or to remember their soldiers or they are trying to "link" a war that happened in the 40's to a war happening today. This topic shouldn't even be in D&ST, because it's non-debatable as far as I'm concerned, you don't bash another countries fallen especially from a country that is one of your biggest allies!Bubbalo wrote:
No, it was started because ATG wanted to make us all feel guilty for criticising the US whilst linking Iraq to WWII in one fell swoop.
It failed miserably.
How would you like it if I said "Fuck those dirtbag Aussies that fought at Tobruk and Gallipoli, I don't owe them a damn thing and they bite my ass."
Or perhaps, how would a Brit like it if I said "Fuck the limey British assholes who fought at Dunkirk and over the skys of Britain, what a bunch of fags."
You don't say shit like that. You're out of line saying it and it makes you looks like a jackass at best. If you don't have anything nice to say about another countries fallen, then GTFO and find an Israel thread to bitch in.
Perhaps the mods should delete all the negative posts and lock.
But then it wouldn't qualify as a HOF topic.
Fuck it, no thread posted honoring American soldiers will go unflammed/spammed.
I knew this when I wrote it.
But then it wouldn't qualify as a HOF topic.
Fuck it, no thread posted honoring American soldiers will go unflammed/spammed.
I knew this when I wrote it.
Calm down.ATG wrote:
Perhaps the mods should delete all the negative posts and lock.
But then it wouldn't qualify as a HOF topic.
Fuck it, no thread posted honoring American soldiers will go unflammed/spammed.
I knew this when I wrote it.
Yep, totally all about honouring America's war dead, no implication of debt at all.ATG wrote:
The Earth is soaked red with all the blood Americans have shed for the world.........................................And Iraq
dont hate the soldiers....
hate the overzealous/ ambitious politicians that put them there.
the soldiers are just doing their job...
hate the overzealous/ ambitious politicians that put them there.
the soldiers are just doing their job...
"Don't hate the player, hate the game", isn't that how the saying goes ?
I wonder why Germany hasn't got a veteran's day....
In germany we have a saying that says "Über die Toten nur Gutes", which roughly translates into "about the dead, only good things ( shall be said )". What that implies is the general belief that the death of a human being is always tragic and sad, whatever the circumstances, and that one should not criticize those who cannot defend themselves indisriminately.
Most of them died for reasons they considered important to themselves, and while we can only hope that their sacrifice hasn't been in vain, it is our responsibility to make sure our governments only sends our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, mums and dads, into battle for reasons that are as true and honest as they claim to be.
I wonder why Germany hasn't got a veteran's day....
In germany we have a saying that says "Über die Toten nur Gutes", which roughly translates into "about the dead, only good things ( shall be said )". What that implies is the general belief that the death of a human being is always tragic and sad, whatever the circumstances, and that one should not criticize those who cannot defend themselves indisriminately.
Most of them died for reasons they considered important to themselves, and while we can only hope that their sacrifice hasn't been in vain, it is our responsibility to make sure our governments only sends our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, mums and dads, into battle for reasons that are as true and honest as they claim to be.
Does that saying apply to Mr. Adolf aswell?B.Schuss wrote:
"Don't hate the player, hate the game", isn't that how the saying goes ?
I wonder why Germany hasn't got a veteran's day....
In germany we have a saying that says "Über die Toten nur Gutes", which roughly translates into "about the dead, only good things ( shall be said )". What that implies is the general belief that the death of a human being is always tragic and sad, whatever the circumstances, and that one should not criticize those who cannot defend themselves indisriminately.
Most of them died for reasons they considered important to themselves, and while we can only hope that their sacrifice hasn't been in vain, it is our responsibility to make sure our governments only sends our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, mums and dads, into battle for reasons that are as true and honest as they claim to be.
That's not “historical truth”, that's present speculation you tit.Reaper Hilarus wrote:
What I am about to say is not arrogance, but historical truth:
Without America in WWII Europe and the world would be a hell of a lot different.
It makes me laugh that people on here can claim to know what would have happened in WW2 if USA/Russia/Britain didn't enter when even experts on the subject can't agree on any hypothesis, and yet some guy with access to Wikipedia can?
Besides, the "who won WW2" game can go round in circles all day, for example if Britain hadn't have won the Battle of Britain before the US could be bothered to realise their was a war on, then the US would have certainly been defeated in the end because Hitler would have controlled the whole of Europe...
Last edited by =OBS= EstebanRey (2007-06-06 03:26:47)
As long as there is only one and this one. No offence, but you guys make as many honoring topics as there are Iran topics. It's not even like that at some army forums i've seen. It just goes over the top to the point of ridiculousness.ATG wrote:
Perhaps the mods should delete all the negative posts and lock.
But then it wouldn't qualify as a HOF topic.
Fuck it, no thread posted honoring American soldiers will go unflammed/spammed.
I knew this when I wrote it.
Next time i see another "Lets remember our heroes" topic i think i'm gonna scream. Surely if people are that dedicated to their soldiers by spamming forums with topics like that, they'd do something better than spam internet forums with topics like that.
Please don't take my reply as an attack on soldiers or anything, because if you do then you're a horrible person.
(This post wasn't directed @ ATG either, just a general comment)
When Bubs raises you.............he wins. Chill.ATG wrote:
Perhaps the mods should delete all the negative posts and lock.
But then it wouldn't qualify as a HOF topic.
Fuck it, no thread posted honoring American soldiers will go unflammed/spammed.
I knew this when I wrote it.
dude, it's a saying. It came into existence long before Hitler was born, and exists well after his death. I think it demonstrates a principle rather than being associated with a specific period in time or a specific person.buLLet_t00th wrote:
Does that saying apply to Mr. Adolf aswell?B.Schuss wrote:
"Don't hate the player, hate the game", isn't that how the saying goes ?
I wonder why Germany hasn't got a veteran's day....
In germany we have a saying that says "Über die Toten nur Gutes", which roughly translates into "about the dead, only good things ( shall be said )". What that implies is the general belief that the death of a human being is always tragic and sad, whatever the circumstances, and that one should not criticize those who cannot defend themselves indisriminately.
Most of them died for reasons they considered important to themselves, and while we can only hope that their sacrifice hasn't been in vain, it is our responsibility to make sure our governments only sends our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, mums and dads, into battle for reasons that are as true and honest as they claim to be.
People are different, and will have different opinions on almost anything. In the end, it's your choice. If you want to apply the saying to Hitler, go ahead. There is a chance, though, that the majority of people would be opposed to that assessment.
WTF ???!!Inspect@hDeck wrote:
Reading over this thread,and from messaging, you may get the impression that I do not respect Americans, that's not true at all. I respect your fallen, as you probably respect our fallen. Anyone that dies defending freedom (with the exception of the Germans) deserves to be remembered as a hero.
Care to elaborate ?
As far as I know, german soldiers are fighting in the fucking war on Terror ( side by side with canadian soldiers, I might add ) in fucking Afghanistan right now. Just two weeks ago, a couple of them returned home in body bags. Are you saying their sacrifice is worth less ?
shame on you, dude....
Oh boy.B.Schuss wrote:
WTF ???!!Inspect@hDeck wrote:
Reading over this thread,and from messaging, you may get the impression that I do not respect Americans, that's not true at all. I respect your fallen, as you probably respect our fallen. Anyone that dies defending freedom (with the exception of the Germans) deserves to be remembered as a hero.
Care to elaborate ?
As far as I know, german soldiers are fighting in the fucking war on Terror ( side by side with canadian soldiers, I might add ) in fucking Afghanistan right now. Just two weeks ago, a couple of them returned home in body bags. Are you saying their sacrifice is worth less ?
shame on you, dude....
I would suggest disregarding that comment Herr Schuss as it was too retarded to bother with.
I respect and admire and am grateful for the participation of the German soldiers in the GWOT.
I think seeing the Iron Cross on a fighter bomber makes people a little nervous, which is understandable considering the past.
I, for one, think it is bullshit not to remember the German fallen of WO II.
Not all German were Nazi's back then you know. Most were just ordinary people like you and me.
Just because they started WO II, doesn't mean they should be forgotten.
Not all German were Nazi's back then you know. Most were just ordinary people like you and me.
Just because they started WO II, doesn't mean they should be forgotten.
the soldiers on ALL the sides shouldn't be forgotten indeed, I think of this quite often whenever there is some world war II movie/docu (where nobody seems to bother doing that)Gillenator wrote:
I, for one, think it is bullshit not to remember the German fallen of WO II.
Not all German were Nazi's back then you know. Most were just ordinary people like you and me.
Just because they started WO II, doesn't mean they should be forgotten.
