OpsChief
Member
+101|7099|Southern California
Sometimes Lone Wolves are a headache to play with, not because of the people but because of the missing pieces to help them work with the rest of the team. How can this be solved? Should it be solved? From the perspective of an online multiplayer commander or squad leader the answer is "yes".

My main suggestion is to give the Commander "Squad Leader" functions for the loners. Anyone not in a squad is in the command "squad" by default without having to join, they can't be allowed call for supplies like a squad leader or VoIP the commander but he can VoIP them. Most importantly commanders can send verbal game commands from his menu, like the "Artillery, your area" that is used before a strike. Currently you can select all squads and warn them of an Arty strike but the lone wolves eat steel when the rounds hit. I know the U.S. and Chinese military are "teams within teams" and lone wolves are rare and usually CIA or something. lol

Why doesn't everyone join a squad?  One reason is they don't know how. Next is they are too polite to join a squad without an invitation. Some may not like to fight in a squad and haven't figured out that they are cutting themselves out of the info loop. Maybe they think all the squads are full of noobs. Could be they hate taking orders. Or maybe they think that as a sniper or pilot they don't need to be in a squad. Lone Wolves are often repeatedly spawnpoint-killed because they can't find a squad to spawn with. Any or all of these reasons may be true at some time or another.

As a squad leader you try to invite people into your squad so you can deploy a sizable force at some point. As a commander you have no way to task or warn them effectively, just typing. The "Shot Over" should signal the LW that arty is near and check their minimaps for the impact area but that fails too often.  During battles you notice people in a gaggle and you can't yell at them to move out. Before they changed the commander artillery kills it was the loners that most often got killed by the artillery in my experience and then punished the commander.

So giving the commander one-way VoIP/menu message access to Lone Wolves solves a bunch of troubles. I have seen some suggestions that a commander be a Spawn Point like SLs, this could be part of the Lone Wolf management also. Finally if the Commander can't be made the "default" squad leader/spawn point then provide a tag below the squad tags to allow warnings to the LWs or let the commander to place all lone wolves into a squad or to task them individually ( this would be insanely hard in a 32 player team).

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-01-18 13:03:23)

stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7143|California

that would be nice, cause when i lone wolf in the plane, its nice to have the commander tell me if im being backside owned or not
T1mbrW0lf
Member
+2|7219|Eastern PA
I most often play "Lone Wolf" when I'm Spec-Ops or Sniper - It gets really tiresome to work your way into an enemy base just in time to find that your (former) Squad Leader resigned, and now your squad is spawning on you, either:

A.) Giving your Spec-Ops mission away as they run around tossing ammo and med packs; or

B.) Running into the Claymores you deployed as a Sniper - then respawning as another Sniper and flopping down in front of you (and in plain sight of the enemy) whilst firing rapidly at nothing and pitching a volley of grenades . . .

I also bail from Squads that don't work together or don't use VoIP for anything other than idle chat / bitching - and I resign as SL when clueless Commanders constantly order objectives on the other side of the map from your currnet location; or issue mission orders without regard for the Squad composition ("Get repairs to this position" - to a Medic, 2 Spec-Ops, and a Sniper).
Tushers
Noctwisaskfirtush
+224|7107|Some where huntin in Wisconsin
I play lone wolf but i have been playing more squad related thing now.

1. i play lone wolf because i dont usally do what everyone else is they telll me to attck and i dont cuz im tobusy getting kills.

2.   the only time i am ion a squad is when i am sniping so i get poped the other guy bes squad ect.

3. lone wolf is also cool because the commander cant talk to u through ur voIP and bother the sh*t out of me when i am sniping. 

my 2 cents
Arkanon
Member
+3|7118|London, UK
If you want to play alone, but also receive orders from the commander, just create a squad and click the padlock symbol so it's locked. Then nobody else can join that squad.

However, I'd hate to see people do this unless they were in a sniper or spec-ops kit. A lone assault soldier is about as much use as a newbie pilot.

As for the people who don't understand how to join squads, they're not likely to pay attention anyway. I can send artillery warnings to squadleaders over and over again, and they walk straight into the damned barrage anyway.

Last edited by Arkanon (2006-01-21 12:37:26)

Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7113|Tampa Bay Florida
The problem with creating a squad and locking it is that it's pretty selfish.  I mean, sure, if they want to be alone fine, but the are getting time as squad leader which they obviously don't deserve.  And plus, it disrespects the team because the player is saying that everyone is a noob.  I wouldn't have a prob with being in a sniper squad, I would help the player out and camp for all I care.

About the lone wolves, very good ideas, maybe in the next patch or something?
Jepeto87
Member
+38|7108|Dublin
I've clocked up a fair amount as a lone wolve because some squad leaders are useless they dont do anything !!

No orders or anything, seems to me they're just trying to increase there time as squad leader time.

You spawn on them only to find that they plan the rest of round raping an uncappable base  or something!

Saying that however, I love it when I find a good squad  thats working together, and i'd perfer always to be in one! except I cant get my mike to work so ive never REALLY experienced a proper communicationg squad... buts thats off topic, lol!

Last edited by Jepeto87 (2006-01-21 17:19:30)

2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|7105|Stillwater, Ok
The best squad is one that has support, medic, anti tank or special ops.  You get healed when you need, ammo when you need, and can take out armor.  If the squad leader dies he can get revived and you can put a constant onslaught to the position your attacking.  But i hate when as squad leader there are 4 people in my squad....im at the rear tellin them to attack....spawn on me.... and i die after 5 minutes of dumbasses not listening.
Fahrenheit
Member
+0|7201

T1mbrW0lf wrote:

I most often play "Lone Wolf" when I'm Spec-Ops or Sniper - It gets really tiresome to work your way into an enemy base just in time to find that your (former) Squad Leader resigned, and now your squad is spawning on you, either:

A.) Giving your Spec-Ops mission away as they run around tossing ammo and med packs; or

B.) Running into the Claymores you deployed as a Sniper - then respawning as another Sniper and flopping down in front of you (and in plain sight of the enemy) whilst firing rapidly at nothing and pitching a volley of grenades . . .

I also bail from Squads that don't work together or don't use VoIP for anything other than idle chat / bitching - and I resign as SL when clueless Commanders constantly order objectives on the other side of the map from your currnet location; or issue mission orders without regard for the Squad composition ("Get repairs to this position" - to a Medic, 2 Spec-Ops, and a Sniper).
same here dude!! although i play more in squads now than ever sometimes its nice just to g it alone and take out the enemy assets without orders being given every 5 secs or peeps spawning on you! mainly i just create me own squad and hope no one joins (i dont lock it cos thats just silly).....least i can call in arty and supplies!!!
i play mostly as spec opps so im gonna go for enemy assets..ther are a lot of seasoned players out there but theres still a lot of new guys (rookies) who dont think about different approaches to attacking bases (karkand) but i agree with poster commander should have the ability to contact loners.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|7108
I find it more effective to lock the squad if I'm a sniper or spec ops or wanting to be a fighter pilot.  You then have the ability to ask for arty or supplies if needed.  Also the commander should be able to see what missions he should give you and what support you may need in those missions.

Other than that I usually play some sort of support role for ground assult roles with a squad.
bigelectricat
Member
+3|7114

T1mbrW0lf wrote:

I resign as SL when clueless Commanders constantly order objectives on the other side of the map from your currnet location; or issue mission orders without regard for the Squad composition ("Get repairs to this position" - to a Medic, 2 Spec-Ops, and a Sniper).
i have given orders for repair to squads that follow commands even though they dont have an engineer when i send the request... hoping that they are smart enough to respawn one engineer.
./KRUX
Member
+1|7160|Austin Texas
PLaying as a lonewolf earns no time towards medals or awards, so most think its a ABOSOLUTE WASTE OF YOUR TIME TO EVER PLAY AS A LONEWOLF. As soon as you join a game immediantly look for a squad. If you wanna earn points pick one thats about to cap a flag its pretty simple. The smart est way to play is squad hopping upon death. This way your always on the cutting edge of the action. That means points galore. When i see people going lonewolf it really pisses me off. This isnt quake or some other game, its ALL about team play. So STOP going lonewolf, it might sound cool to be the "lonewolf" but your a complete liability to your team.

With that said, why have the lonewolf option? EA need to come up with some awards for being lonewolf. Badges, awards, medals. IMO it would be cool to offer lonewolf heavy load out(more ammo) extra c4 for special operation soilders would be very welcome i bet. EA screwed the pooch even allowing this option. EA since you have it please reward it!

Last edited by ./KRUX (2006-01-21 19:41:55)

TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7095|Colorado
I mostly just forget to join a squad when first starting up, specially when its in the middle of a battle & you spawn in the action. The other time is when the side is completely incompentant & I choose not to listen to a team constantly saying "oohhhh I owned him".
Other than that it is a waste of time to be lonewolf just like krux said, no medals , no anything , other than the fun of playing.
teh adam
Member
+2|7109

Tushers wrote:

I play lone wolf but i have been playing more squad related thing now.

1. i play lone wolf because i dont usally do what everyone else is they telll me to attck and i dont cuz im tobusy getting kills.

2.   the only time i am ion a squad is when i am sniping so i get poped the other guy bes squad ect.

3. lone wolf is also cool because the commander cant talk to u through ur voIP and bother the sh*t out of me when i am sniping. 

my 2 cents
I have no clue what you are talking about in sentence #2 first of all (it makes no sense... someone want to rephrase it?)

No offense but this type of attitude is what causes the problem... how many times have you played in a squad (not many considering you just started playing).

Of course its not your fault... the first commander you dealt with was probably an asshole and the first squad you joined probably had some kid that squealed over voip making your ears bleed.

Also commanders that use voip are usually helpful when your sniping... they sometimes say stuff like "watch out your about to be knifed" or "Incoming Artillary".

Last edited by teh adam (2006-01-21 23:33:18)

DSRTurtle
Member
+56|7108
I think there is a time and a place in the game for lonewolves.  However, that is limited to fighter pilots and snipers, and maybe spec ops. 

I don't use VOIP because of the way it interfers with my sound card settings.

As Commander I generally try to do the following:
Use the sat scan for spotting as often as possible to help lonewolf snipers and others when I don't have a UAV available for squads. 
Make an effort to support those squads on the ground with Arty, UAV, and supplies.  These are the guys who take and hold the ground needed to win. 
Give orders to squad leaders for defense or attack to the closest flag based on the position of the squad leader relative to the flag in question.  Occassionally I will order squads to attack flags on the other side of the map based on their position and our control of the map in question. 

My thoughts on Squad Leaders:
Squad Leaders should not be in the air unless it's in a transport chopper with the rest of their squad. 
Squad Leaders cannot lead 6 man squads when they are in a jet.  Your way too busy flying and bombing targets to give orders and make requests.  A locked one person squad for you is fine when I'm commanding cause I can see what your intentions are.  Orders will be issued accordingly and very infrequently. Jets make a quick arty substitute in a pinch.  When I give an attack order I want you to bomb the location i'm saying to attack.

My thoughts on squad members:
Spawn on your squad leader.  This helps you work as a team.  I realize this is not always possible and you sometimes get separated when in multiple vehicles.  Get back together as fast as a possible. 
If you don't want to be a squad leader join a squad.  Commanders in general, myself in particilar will help you with more orders, supplies, uav support and and arty on targets.  4 people in a squad capturing a flag gives everyone more points and you capture the flag much quicker.  Do NOT stand around after capturing the flag.  MOVE your butt out to the next closest enemy flag or you will be arty'd by the enemy. 
Play what ever kit you like best, I don't care.  However if your an engineer I may issue a repair order.  If/When you die please follow my repair order.  I want you to get the points for it, rather than dropping my supplies next to my arty.  My supplies are there to repair and rearm you in combat. 

My thoughts on Snipers:
Snipers are great for defending flags where armored vehicles either can't get to, or in rounds where there are very few vehilces to protect the occupants. 
Snipers are great for protecting spec ops when going after commanders and their assets.

I realize this a long post, but those are most of my thoughts on the subject of lonewolves.
Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|7111
Theres really no point to make a squad or join a squad unless you know the person because 99% of the time every one in the squad just goes off on there own.
chitlin
Banned
+36|7185
why ? so you can give him orders ? ...no thx most commanders either give stupid orders or say the obvious..

that only flag we dont have attack there ? oh no shit ...commanders arent that important ... just keep giving me uav and shut up =p
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|7108

chitlin wrote:

why ? so you can give him orders ? ...no thx most commanders either give stupid orders or say the obvious..

that only flag we dont have attack there ? oh no shit ...commanders arent that important ... just keep giving me uav and shut up =p
Your the player who won't get that support and will probably have arty dropped on your head. 

A good commander can make an even game an easy victory.  I've come into games in the middle of the round where the side I'm on doesn't have a commander.  Seeing that we don't have a commander, I apply for it and then take a sure defeat and turn it into a close game or a victory for my side.  More often than not a victory.
chitlin
Banned
+36|7185
youre probably the commander that thinks people need to make requests to use the commander assets ...any half decent commander knows where uav's supplies and arty belongs .. i can see the flashing red marker on my map just fine

the commander is pretty much never the deciding factor in a win .. its the guys in the field ..and if your guys on the front suck it doesnt matter how awesome of a commander you think you are
Arkanon
Member
+3|7118|London, UK
A good commander can help a good team. But it's true that a good commander can't do shit for a bunch of numbnuts that are busy teamkilling each other to be first to play with the fun toys. If I see a team that dumb, I resign and pray that the server reassigns me to the other team soon.
OpsChief
Member
+101|7099|Southern California
ty all  Good comments

Based on your ideas I think the commo could be set up this way-

Commander commo needs:
-Squad Leader Channel (2-way)
-Air Channel/Pilots only (1 or 2-way selectable) (whether pilot is in a squad or not)
-Lone Wolf Channel (1-way from commander but 2-way between loners) (I see this mostly as a way to warn people about artillery and ask them to join squads. Making it 2-way between lone wolves will help them form squads too. Another way to do this is add a tab for lone wolves in the COs commo menu for the arty warning and add a message "You are AWOL soldier! Join your Squads NOW!!! ooorahhh!" use The Gunny's voice)

Also Squads should not be lockable with only 1-2 people in them until all loners are gone.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|7108
Ops, I disagree about lockable squads.  I will lock it with one or 2 people for certain missions.  Like a support squad consisting of an eng, medic, and support guy.  grab a jeep and run around fixing everything and giving out ammo and first aid.   Or when your flying.  As a squad in flight status you can help the team by bombing a target designated by the commander.  Maybe EA/DICE should a Bomb option to the list of options for the commander/squad leader.  I rarely lock a squad though. 

Other times locked squads are usually teammates who don't want outsiders joining there team because they feel the outsiders might actually do more harm than good. 

After so many hours though you get a feel for good team players who will try and work with anyone and those who don't. 

I noticed some servers will kick those lonewolves after a while.

Edit notes:

Customize your squad if you want to be a lonewolf sniper or something.  You can always lock the squad, but the commander can see what kit you have and if needed assign missions accordingly.

Last edited by DSRTurtle (2006-01-26 15:31:42)

OpsChief
Member
+101|7099|Southern California

DSRTurtle wrote:

Ops, I disagree about lockable squads.  I will lock it with one or 2 people for certain missions.  Like a support squad consisting of an eng, medic, and support guy.  grab a jeep and run around fixing everything and giving out ammo and first aid.   Or when your flying.  As a squad in flight status you can help the team by bombing a target designated by the commander.  Maybe EA/DICE should a Bomb option to the list of options for the commander/squad leader.  I rarely lock a squad though. 

Other times locked squads are usually teammates who don't want outsiders joining there team because they feel the outsiders might actually do more harm than good. 

After so many hours though you get a feel for good team players who will try and work with anyone and those who don't. 

I noticed some servers will kick those lonewolves after a while.

Edit notes:

Customize your squad if you want to be a lonewolf sniper or something.  You can always lock the squad, but the commander can see what kit you have and if needed assign missions accordingly.
Turtle I agree totally those are great points and for those good specialty squads. Some kinds of squads need to be locked. But in a 32v32 player game that is risky if too many people do it. I played on one of those loner kicking servers and I got kicked because there was no squad I could join lmao!!! And they didn't say You have 30 seconds to join a squad or else....  I always join squads.

For less than 20 ppl I think my idea isn't relevant at all. More than 20 and sometime you need that extra squad leader to spawn away from camped areas.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|7108
30 seconds is a little too short of a time span to find and join a squad.  A couple of minutes would be better.  I usually join or create a squad before I spawn.  Unfortuanately that causes me not to get in the attack chopper or jet.  But then you can't have everything.  I've found it somewhat helpful to create a squad, but not lock it.  Then when you have a spare 30 seconds or so, invite people you know to be good "TEAM" players to join it.

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