i myself would go with a 12 gauge, but i also like the .45
Poll
.40S&W vs .45ACP A personal choice?
| .40 all the way. More bullets. | 43% | 43% - 52 | ||||
| .45 Why have more bullets? Only need to hit once. | 56% | 56% - 68 | ||||
| Total: 120 | ||||||
I have a 40 Hk its the P2000 model. yes they do cost a little more. But you get what you pay for an if you have to carry for your life (job) No compromise. as for the grip they come with 4 interchangeable to your hand size.
This is the gun that won the contract for a couple agency in the USA.
when i got this gun i spent 6 hours at the range fired it nonstop of every type of load and casing. about 3000 rounds and one dead arm i didn't have one jam but did have 3 misfires not the pistol that the load.
http://www.hk-usa.com/p2000_general.html
This is the gun that won the contract for a couple agency in the USA.
when i got this gun i spent 6 hours at the range fired it nonstop of every type of load and casing. about 3000 rounds and one dead arm i didn't have one jam but did have 3 misfires not the pistol that the load.
http://www.hk-usa.com/p2000_general.html
Last edited by SmkenRez (2007-06-23 20:46:15)
i would go with the .40 - but not so you have more ammo.
a tazer?! lol. i would love to know how a tazer can be more useful or/[and] effective than a handgun?Skorpy-chan wrote:
I don't doubt the crime, but why a handgun? I mean, you slip while drawing it, you risk blowing your toes off. You miss, you risk killing someone else entirely.
Surely something like a tazer would be more useful or effective.
(I'm not debating politics, merely the practicality and sensibility of carrying around a dispenser of hot lead. Politics is boring.)
you cant conceal a shotgun, and i own the smallest legally allowed.....there is no way ill get that in my pants.Skorpy-chan wrote:
I don't doubt the crime, but why a handgun? I mean, you slip while drawing it, you risk blowing your toes off. You miss, you risk killing someone else entirely.
Surely something like a tazer would be more useful or effective.
(I'm not debating politics, merely the practicality and sensibility of carrying around a dispenser of hot lead. Politics is boring.)
a tazer requires that you engage in hand to hand combat. unless you get one of the "gun" tazers, and you cant really conceal those either.
i practice on a weekly basis to prevent mistakes like what you described. you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but at least you will have a chance if someone starts shooting at you.
oh and i carry something that i would use long before i drew my weapon......ill give you a hint, its about 9 inches long and its made from S30V stainless steel
I carry this.imortal wrote:
I am at having a problem with a decision. I am buying a new pistol, as my fiance is inheriting my old Glock 23 .40 caliber. Over the last 14 years, I have jumped between a glock .40 and a 1911 in .45, and now I am poised at an impasse. My wrist can't handle the angle the Glock grip is set at, and I need something smaller than a 1911 for carry. I looked and I looked, and I am finally settling on the Smith & Wesson Military and Police pistol (M&P). My problem is picking between the .40 and the .45. The .40 has a 15 round magazine, the .45 a 10 round. The .45 is a couple oz heavier, and about a 1/2 inch longer. That is the extent of the difference.
So, looking for opinions. I am not saying I will go with what you all vote for, but I will think on it.
The S&W M&P .40 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ … y_rn=15711
The S&W M&P .45 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ … y_rn=15711
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ul … arrylg.php
.. Wear a inside the belt side holster. You can wear a T-shirt and no one will ever see it.
I used to carry this.. Great in a horizontal cross draw during the winter.. Galco makes a great one.
(Second pic. down)
http://www.hkpro.com/uspc.htm
Summer time carry (depended on what clothing I have on.. Until I bought the Kimber... scroll down) . SOB holster
http://froogle.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi … m=74070296
But my first gun.... I sold it like a moron... DON'T EVER SELL A GUN. ITW holster... Yea, I know... I was young and dumb.
http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/40/23/
I've got a few other guns but those are the highlights..
Point is that I started out the Polymer framed semi .40 caliber. I found a gun that is right for me 1911 .45 . Granted the gun I carry now (7+1) doesn't match the (13+1) H&K .40 in terms of firepower, but hell if you're in that boat, why not then the 9mm 17 round mag? 9mm have been know to ricochet off windshields on cars instead of penetrating them -but hell maybe one of the other rounds will make it though. 45's great but too much (size) but too little (quantity).. Decisions, decisions. For me -I think that If I am to use my gun it would be most likley in very close range. No trigger happy 50 yard shots. Save that showmanship for the gun range. I think that the first 3 times I depress the trigger will be the most important in a lethal urban situation -whether I carry a clip with 7 or 17 rounds. I want those first three shots to really count. I've read countless articles and reports on defensive shooting. The conculsions I've personally reached from them is that if I'm gonna have to shoot someone it is going to be close up, the longest/shortest 5 seconds of my life. I decided to carry something very comfortable that has been battle proven and reilable. What ever you do, let me know what you decided on and why. Thanks! -DAN
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2007-06-23 21:41:17)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
i own a hk usp .40 (full frame) and a springfield armory custom 1911 .45 cap (also a full frame), i have other hand guns, but those two are my babies. i perfer my 1911 over my usp, its easier to carry, easier to point shoot, and it grips better than my hk, and seeing that it is a steel frame, the recoil is nothing, i could shoot my .45 all day long. now, if you wanna talk recoil, i have a sw model 60 .357 (2.25 in barrel) and that son of a bitch kicks like a mule, but its an awesome pocket gun.
DEAR GOD AVOID S&W AUTO PISTOLS LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!!!
They are absolutely the worst auto pistols on the market by a major manufacturer. I haven't had a chance to toy with an M&P yet, but if the other autos S&W makes are any comparison they are junk. Seems rather odd cause S&W makes probably the highest quality revolvers of the major manufacturers. I actually have to charge more for a clean & oil of S&W autos because they've got so many god damned springs in them it makes reassembly a bitch, I think I counted over 27 springs in a S&W Model 410. Compare that to the 1911 which has 5 including mag spring, or 6 if you count the extractor as a spring (it itself is a spring).
As for .40vs45acp, it's simply personal preference. You deciding factors should be, how big are your hands, can you handle the recoil? If so I'd get the .45acp, most of the newer auto's out there can hold about 12-14rnds of 45acp, and I hate to say it, but if you need more than that in a personal defense situation your fucked anyways. If you've got smaller hands and can't handle the recoil get the .40S&W, in just about any situation you probably won't have to fire the gun in self defense, most criminals at the site of a gun aimed at them, run in terror or start begging for mercy.
They are absolutely the worst auto pistols on the market by a major manufacturer. I haven't had a chance to toy with an M&P yet, but if the other autos S&W makes are any comparison they are junk. Seems rather odd cause S&W makes probably the highest quality revolvers of the major manufacturers. I actually have to charge more for a clean & oil of S&W autos because they've got so many god damned springs in them it makes reassembly a bitch, I think I counted over 27 springs in a S&W Model 410. Compare that to the 1911 which has 5 including mag spring, or 6 if you count the extractor as a spring (it itself is a spring).
As for .40vs45acp, it's simply personal preference. You deciding factors should be, how big are your hands, can you handle the recoil? If so I'd get the .45acp, most of the newer auto's out there can hold about 12-14rnds of 45acp, and I hate to say it, but if you need more than that in a personal defense situation your fucked anyways. If you've got smaller hands and can't handle the recoil get the .40S&W, in just about any situation you probably won't have to fire the gun in self defense, most criminals at the site of a gun aimed at them, run in terror or start begging for mercy.
Bigger is better
noice 
I shoot both and don't think the .40 recoils much less. I find the .45 more controllable with follow ups. IMO you can't go wrong either way but I lean toward .45ghettoperson wrote:
Hmmm... not that I know a great deal about guns, but I figure a .40 is big enough to stop most stuff, and the less recoil and more rounds would make it more suitable for protecting yourself. If it comes down to you having to use it, which I hope it doesn't, I'd rather have a few more bullets. 10 isn't really a lot.
I am planning to get the SA XD but you mentioned that you didn't care for the feel. Para ordinace has hicap .45s if thats a deal breaker.
For normal carry, if you need 15rnds to do the job, what you really need is more range time.
I own both calibers and I would say having the right .45 ammunition makes all the difference in the recoil.
If you can't conceal it, you're not trying hard enough, IMO. Get a folding stock, and you should be able to pack it down into a bag of some sort.Parker wrote:
you cant conceal a shotgun, and i own the smallest legally allowed.....there is no way ill get that in my pants.Skorpy-chan wrote:
I don't doubt the crime, but why a handgun? I mean, you slip while drawing it, you risk blowing your toes off. You miss, you risk killing someone else entirely.
Surely something like a tazer would be more useful or effective.
(I'm not debating politics, merely the practicality and sensibility of carrying around a dispenser of hot lead. Politics is boring.)
a tazer requires that you engage in hand to hand combat. unless you get one of the "gun" tazers, and you cant really conceal those either.
i practice on a weekly basis to prevent mistakes like what you described. you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but at least you will have a chance if someone starts shooting at you.
oh and i carry something that i would use long before i drew my weapon......ill give you a hint, its about 9 inches long and its made from S30V stainless steel
I was referring to the dart-and-wires tazer. They drop someone pretty much instantly on impact, and they're the size of a large pistol. Again, try harder if you can't hide it.
Practice is one thing, but people still panic when faced with trouble. And no matter how careful you are, you're still gonna drop it sooner or later.
And if you're bashing someone with what sounds like a large dildo or maglite, you're in hand-to-hand combat anyway. The 12 gauge is usually strong enough to be used as a bludgeon.
...Skorpy-chan wrote:
If you can't conceal it, you're not trying hard enough, IMO. Get a folding stock, and you should be able to pack it down into a bag of some sort.Parker wrote:
you cant conceal a shotgun, and i own the smallest legally allowed.....there is no way ill get that in my pants.Skorpy-chan wrote:
I don't doubt the crime, but why a handgun? I mean, you slip while drawing it, you risk blowing your toes off. You miss, you risk killing someone else entirely.
Surely something like a tazer would be more useful or effective.
(I'm not debating politics, merely the practicality and sensibility of carrying around a dispenser of hot lead. Politics is boring.)
a tazer requires that you engage in hand to hand combat. unless you get one of the "gun" tazers, and you cant really conceal those either.
i practice on a weekly basis to prevent mistakes like what you described. you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but at least you will have a chance if someone starts shooting at you.
oh and i carry something that i would use long before i drew my weapon......ill give you a hint, its about 9 inches long and its made from S30V stainless steel
I was referring to the dart-and-wires tazer. They drop someone pretty much instantly on impact, and they're the size of a large pistol. Again, try harder if you can't hide it.
Practice is one thing, but people still panic when faced with trouble. And no matter how careful you are, you're still gonna drop it sooner or later.
And if you're bashing someone with what sounds like a large dildo or maglite, you're in hand-to-hand combat anyway. The 12 gauge is usually strong enough to be used as a bludgeon.
HINT: Parker makes knives.
im sorry man, but it is completely impossible to conceal a shotgun to carry it. there is just no way. i have a shotgun that has a PISTOL grip.....no stock. NOT going to be able to conceal it.Skorpy-chan wrote:
If you can't conceal it, you're not trying hard enough, IMO. Get a folding stock, and you should be able to pack it down into a bag of some sort.Parker wrote:
you cant conceal a shotgun, and i own the smallest legally allowed.....there is no way ill get that in my pants.Skorpy-chan wrote:
I don't doubt the crime, but why a handgun? I mean, you slip while drawing it, you risk blowing your toes off. You miss, you risk killing someone else entirely.
Surely something like a tazer would be more useful or effective.
(I'm not debating politics, merely the practicality and sensibility of carrying around a dispenser of hot lead. Politics is boring.)
a tazer requires that you engage in hand to hand combat. unless you get one of the "gun" tazers, and you cant really conceal those either.
i practice on a weekly basis to prevent mistakes like what you described. you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but at least you will have a chance if someone starts shooting at you.
oh and i carry something that i would use long before i drew my weapon......ill give you a hint, its about 9 inches long and its made from S30V stainless steel
I was referring to the dart-and-wires tazer. They drop someone pretty much instantly on impact, and they're the size of a large pistol. Again, try harder if you can't hide it.
Practice is one thing, but people still panic when faced with trouble. And no matter how careful you are, you're still gonna drop it sooner or later.
And if you're bashing someone with what sounds like a large dildo or maglite, you're in hand-to-hand combat anyway. The 12 gauge is usually strong enough to be used as a bludgeon.
your reference to the dart-and-wires stun gun means that you would have to carry something, like you said, the size of a large handgun........except one problem....you get one shot.
i understand people panic under certain situations, thats why i wrote, "you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong" up there ^^^
from what i gather you know very little about firearms in general, so when you say something like "you arent trying hard enough" when talking about the concealment of a shotgun, if kind of verifies that belief.
Oh it's not impossible, it would just be highly illegal. Just get a cheap break open single barrel or double barrel, shorten the stock up, or make a pistols style for it, and chop the barrel down to about 8 inches, bam easily concealable shotgun that would land you in jail for ten years if caughtParker wrote:
im sorry man, but it is completely impossible to conceal a shotgun to carry it. there is just no way. i have a shotgun that has a PISTOL grip.....no stock. NOT going to be able to conceal it.Skorpy-chan wrote:
If you can't conceal it, you're not trying hard enough, IMO. Get a folding stock, and you should be able to pack it down into a bag of some sort.Parker wrote:
you cant conceal a shotgun, and i own the smallest legally allowed.....there is no way ill get that in my pants.
a tazer requires that you engage in hand to hand combat. unless you get one of the "gun" tazers, and you cant really conceal those either.
i practice on a weekly basis to prevent mistakes like what you described. you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but at least you will have a chance if someone starts shooting at you.
oh and i carry something that i would use long before i drew my weapon......ill give you a hint, its about 9 inches long and its made from S30V stainless steel
I was referring to the dart-and-wires tazer. They drop someone pretty much instantly on impact, and they're the size of a large pistol. Again, try harder if you can't hide it.
Practice is one thing, but people still panic when faced with trouble. And no matter how careful you are, you're still gonna drop it sooner or later.
And if you're bashing someone with what sounds like a large dildo or maglite, you're in hand-to-hand combat anyway. The 12 gauge is usually strong enough to be used as a bludgeon.
your reference to the dart-and-wires stun gun means that you would have to carry something, like you said, the size of a large handgun........except one problem....you get one shot.
i understand people panic under certain situations, thats why i wrote, "you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong" up there ^^^
from what i gather you know very little about firearms in general, so when you say something like "you arent trying hard enough" when talking about the concealment of a shotgun, if kind of verifies that belief.
Actually, a combat shotgun with the folding stock folded should conceal pretty easily if you just think a little and wear a baggy jacket.Parker wrote:
from what i gather you know very little about firearms in general, so when you say something like "you arent trying hard enough" when talking about the concealment of a shotgun, if kind of verifies that belief.
Also, how the hell was I meant to know that the 9" metal thing was a knife? Only Parker company I know makes fountain pens, and 9" is just unnecesarrily long for a knife blade. 3-5" is enough for a between-the-ribs sucking chest wound, slicing a tendon or artery, disembowelling someone, or many other domestic uses.
Normally, I would agree with you. Our range used to rent out some old S&W autos, and I had to clean them. I agree that they were nothign but trouble. But once the Sigma series came out, they started a change in how their autos are made. Granted, the Sigma is trash too, but it as still an improvement on their number series.ts-pulsar wrote:
DEAR GOD AVOID S&W AUTO PISTOLS LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!!!
They are absolutely the worst auto pistols on the market by a major manufacturer. I haven't had a chance to toy with an M&P yet, but if the other autos S&W makes are any comparison they are junk. Seems rather odd cause S&W makes probably the highest quality revolvers of the major manufacturers. I actually have to charge more for a clean & oil of S&W autos because they've got so many god damned springs in them it makes reassembly a bitch, I think I counted over 27 springs in a S&W Model 410. Compare that to the 1911 which has 5 including mag spring, or 6 if you count the extractor as a spring (it itself is a spring).
The word I have gotten, and heard around the local range is that the M&P is pretty good. Not up to snuff as a range gun (that sees 1000 - 2000 rounds a week put through it), but a pretty good gun for everyday carry and use.
ill go take a pic just to show how retarded that is........Skorpy-chan wrote:
Actually, a combat shotgun with the folding stock folded should conceal pretty easily if you just think a little and wear a baggy jacket.Parker wrote:
from what i gather you know very little about firearms in general, so when you say something like "you arent trying hard enough" when talking about the concealment of a shotgun, if kind of verifies that belief.
Also, how the hell was I meant to know that the 9" metal thing was a knife? Only Parker company I know makes fountain pens, and 9" is just unnecesarrily long for a knife blade. 3-5" is enough for a between-the-ribs sucking chest wound, slicing a tendon or artery, disembowelling someone, or many other domestic uses.
its nine inches OVERALL LENGTH.
you dont possess the knowledge to discuss blade types and ability, so keep your IDEAS of what knives can do to yourself.
Ummm, I live in Texas. In the summer I am in shorts and a t shirt with sandles on. Small is the keyword in concealability here.Skorpy-chan wrote:
If you can't conceal it, you're not trying hard enough, IMO. Get a folding stock, and you should be able to pack it down into a bag of some sort.
Believe it or not, those tazers are MORE restricted than guns are, here. Plus, tazers have an absolute maximum range (length of the wires). YOu also have to hit with BOTH the darts, or nothing happens. And those things are not that accurate. And once you stick them in, you are now connected to the person by wires. You try to run to clear the scene, he is free again. Your batteries run dry, he is free again (not to mention extremely pissed off)Skorpy-chan wrote:
I was referring to the dart-and-wires tazer. They drop someone pretty much instantly on impact, and they're the size of a large pistol. Again, try harder if you can't hide it.
That is the entire purpose of practice. And by that I mean a LOT of practice. You should draw your pistol from your holster in practce at least 500 times before you ever use it in public and for real. That is so you NEVER fumble the draw. And no, you are not going to drop it sooner or later.Skorpy-chan wrote:
Practice is one thing, but people still panic when faced with trouble. And no matter how careful you are, you're still gonna drop it sooner or later.
ok, to prove a point and provide myself with some entertainment between todays jobs............
here i am, with my mossberg 500c 20 ga tactical shotgun.
looks pretty hard to conceal that.......well, lets give it a try.
that doesnt look right.....is that a shotgun under my arm?
lets try something different.........
hhmmmm, either i am very happy to see someone, or there is a firearm under my shirt........
hey, whats this?
i dont have the shotgun anymore......did i hide it?
no, its behind me.
hey whats that now?
couldnt see it before?
it was concealed, UNLIKE the shotgun.
wow, i guess that .38 is slightly easier to conceal on your person than a shotgun.......
who would have thought?
here i am, with my mossberg 500c 20 ga tactical shotgun.
looks pretty hard to conceal that.......well, lets give it a try.
that doesnt look right.....is that a shotgun under my arm?
lets try something different.........
hhmmmm, either i am very happy to see someone, or there is a firearm under my shirt........
hey, whats this?
i dont have the shotgun anymore......did i hide it?
no, its behind me.
hey whats that now?
couldnt see it before?
it was concealed, UNLIKE the shotgun.
wow, i guess that .38 is slightly easier to conceal on your person than a shotgun.......
who would have thought?
Parker, you need a shave.
neither
4.6x30 & 5.7x28 all the way
4.6x30 & 5.7x28 all the way
nowai
i want some birds to migrate there eventually
but, ya my wife is busting my balls big time about that.
one of the perks of working out of the house.
i want some birds to migrate there eventually
but, ya my wife is busting my balls big time about that.
one of the perks of working out of the house.
Personaly, judging by what you said about your mild history of firearms, .45
You can most likely handle the recoil and aim well enough, and all your gonna need is one shot to put down any attacker
You can most likely handle the recoil and aim well enough, and all your gonna need is one shot to put down any attacker
skorpy, where did your opinion go to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seveN
Try this one. Stopping power of a .223 and capacity of a 9mm. I've shot one of these. Almost no recoil, and accurate as hell. Ammo is kinda a pain to find which makes it an expensive date at the range.
Try this one. Stopping power of a .223 and capacity of a 9mm. I've shot one of these. Almost no recoil, and accurate as hell. Ammo is kinda a pain to find which makes it an expensive date at the range.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2007-07-06 05:51:29)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.