How do you propose they'll get access to it?usmarine2005 wrote:
I understand that. Do you really think they would not get their hands on the sauce?Bubbalo wrote:
I don't think you understand the situation, usmarine. These are isolated communities, it's not like they can just break a shop window to get to alcohol.
I have no idea.Bubbalo wrote:
How do you propose they'll get access to it?usmarine2005 wrote:
I understand that. Do you really think they would not get their hands on the sauce?Bubbalo wrote:
I don't think you understand the situation, usmarine. These are isolated communities, it's not like they can just break a shop window to get to alcohol.
All I know, if they banned it from me, I would find a way to get it.
Right, so we'll just have to take your word that there must be a way?usmarine2005 wrote:
I have no idea.
All I know, if they banned it from me, I would find a way to get it.
All I gotta say is... I'd make the same move if I were PM of Australia.
Hmm....there are alot of people O/S who cannot make out the leaves from the tree.
TBH this was going to happen sooner or later. The major stuff up that was ATSIC will make Australians go back to paternalism. ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Commission) was supposed to solve these problems in remote communities when it was setup in the late 80's. It failed.
Example: One year it was given a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. 12 million was spent on abuse of women in remote communities(a serious problem). Yet the executives of the ATSIC board spent ~15mil on a new car fleet for themselves that year alone. Also there is another problem of millions of dollars from ATSIC budgets. Most of the money spent within ATSIC went missing and now has been written off.
Like topal63 I can understand people calling racist over the whole situation. But we have tried throwing money at the problem and that did not help.
TBH this was going to happen sooner or later. The major stuff up that was ATSIC will make Australians go back to paternalism. ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Commission) was supposed to solve these problems in remote communities when it was setup in the late 80's. It failed.
Example: One year it was given a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. 12 million was spent on abuse of women in remote communities(a serious problem). Yet the executives of the ATSIC board spent ~15mil on a new car fleet for themselves that year alone. Also there is another problem of millions of dollars from ATSIC budgets. Most of the money spent within ATSIC went missing and now has been written off.
Like topal63 I can understand people calling racist over the whole situation. But we have tried throwing money at the problem and that did not help.
26 miles, lol. Try 260 miles before you see another person, and double that before you see a pizza shop, then you're getting close.usmarine2005 wrote:
I convinced a Domino's pizza guy to deliver a shit load of pizzas to us and it was a 26 mile drive for him. He made a lot of money off that.Invaderzim wrote:
You dont seem to see the point here, these communities are a long way away from other cities/towns
EDIT: After looking at the map and realising we're talking in miles, I'm probably over-exaggerating. Just pretend I said kilometers.
Point taken, but the way you worded your post makes you look like an ignorant redneck.Pea....Tear.....Griffen wrote:
Its needed in the N.T, Without alchohol and sick pornos the Aborigines will have nothing to spend their free money on except food for their kids. Its about time the government made sure that the welfare money goes towards what its meant to.
Last edited by cospengle (2007-06-23 08:11:39)
Of course, the issue there is more the people chosen to lead ATSIC rather than any inherent flaws with ATSIC. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Howard chose people who he knew would screw it up.Budzilla wrote:
Hmm....there are alot of people O/S who cannot make out the leaves from the tree.
TBH this was going to happen sooner or later. The major stuff up that was ATSIC will make Australians go back to paternalism. ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Commission) was supposed to solve these problems in remote communities when it was setup in the late 80's. It failed.
Example: One year it was given a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. 12 million was spent on abuse of women in remote communities(a serious problem). Yet the executives of the ATSIC board spent ~15mil on a new car fleet for themselves that year alone. Also there is another problem of millions of dollars from ATSIC budgets. Most of the money spent within ATSIC went missing and now has been written off.
Like topal63 I can understand people calling racist over the whole situation. But we have tried throwing money at the problem and that did not help.
ATSIC only had a problem at the top and allocation of funds. Having cleaned an office for ATSIC staff for 4 years and then another 2 years when they broke up into their respective smaller departments I can say that, here in Arhnem land anyway, they were a good bunch who tried their hardest.Bubbalo wrote:
Of course, the issue there is more the people chosen to lead ATSIC rather than any inherent flaws with ATSIC. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Howard chose people who he knew would screw it up.Budzilla wrote:
Hmm....there are alot of people O/S who cannot make out the leaves from the tree.
TBH this was going to happen sooner or later. The major stuff up that was ATSIC will make Australians go back to paternalism. ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Commission) was supposed to solve these problems in remote communities when it was setup in the late 80's. It failed.
Example: One year it was given a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. 12 million was spent on abuse of women in remote communities(a serious problem). Yet the executives of the ATSIC board spent ~15mil on a new car fleet for themselves that year alone. Also there is another problem of millions of dollars from ATSIC budgets. Most of the money spent within ATSIC went missing and now has been written off.
Like topal63 I can understand people calling racist over the whole situation. But we have tried throwing money at the problem and that did not help.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
You can't trust any of those 'coalition of the willing' countries!
feels like we have gone back 40 yrs, in terms of equal rights, in particular aboriginal rights, im sure there is more of an agenda then 'porn' and sex abuse... very odd.
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
If you are talking about Bush his term limits are up. According to our constitution he and the Vice President can only serve 2 terms.Ratzinger wrote:
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
Notice how the thread says CIVIL RIGHTS AUSTRALIA?Harmor wrote:
If you are talking about Bush his term limits are up. According to our constitution he and the Vice President can only serve 2 terms.Ratzinger wrote:
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I'm waiting for the old bugger to die of old age during a parliament sitting... I mean I know we have an ageing population and an increasing retirement age but fuck me, when most of the country wants you to retire wouldn't you be best off doing it?Ratzinger wrote:
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
lolHarmor wrote:
If you are talking about Bush his term limits are up. According to our constitution he and the Vice President can only serve 2 terms.Ratzinger wrote:
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
Oh and FDR?Harmor wrote:
If you are talking about Bush his term limits are up. According to our constitution he and the Vice President can only serve 2 terms.Ratzinger wrote:
Its an election year people!
There is no intent to improve any feature of indigenous people's lives.
The sole intent is to improve the Coalition vote!
How fuckin' dumb would you have to be to let this thieving lying bastard have another go?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
I never said anything else. Government departments are never rotten to the core, because the work at the bottom is too shitty to do even if you can make a bit extra being dodgy.Flecco wrote:
ATSIC only had a problem at the top and allocation of funds. Having cleaned an office for ATSIC staff for 4 years and then another 2 years when they broke up into their respective smaller departments I can say that, here in Arhnem land anyway, they were a good bunch who tried their hardest.
Way to not read the thread.ozghost wrote:
feels like we have gone back 40 yrs, in terms of equal rights, in particular aboriginal rights, im sure there is more of an agenda then 'porn' and sex abuse... very odd.
Aren't you the guy who thinks he's Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon or something? Still smoking the same shit?
it's actually pretty simple. First, you give people certain rights, such as welfare, access to education, and the right to buy alcohol.
Then you examine how they use those rights, and what - if any - good comes from it.
In a third step, you then change or modify the rights so they benefit the majority of the community and implement sanctions for those who chose to abuse their rights.
I don't think this is a race issue. If the government has determined that substance abuse is one of the major causes of child abuse and social troubles in the NT, it is certainly its right to regulate access to those substances. And from what I have read so far, the law applies to all people in the NT, not just the Aboriginees (sp?).
Every country regulates access to certain intoxicating substances, in some shape or form. Why ? Because they have proven to be harmful to society in general.
Are the aboriginees' civil rights infringed upon? not really. As long as they show no effort to be "productive members of society" ( boy, I hate that term ), they'll have to live with the fact that they'll have less rights than those who do. And since when was "drinking booze" part of one's civil rights ?
But I also agree that laws alone won't help fix the underlieing issues here. I am sure the Australian Government is aware of that. It's one part of a complex attempt to tackle the problem, I hope.
Then you examine how they use those rights, and what - if any - good comes from it.
In a third step, you then change or modify the rights so they benefit the majority of the community and implement sanctions for those who chose to abuse their rights.
I don't think this is a race issue. If the government has determined that substance abuse is one of the major causes of child abuse and social troubles in the NT, it is certainly its right to regulate access to those substances. And from what I have read so far, the law applies to all people in the NT, not just the Aboriginees (sp?).
Every country regulates access to certain intoxicating substances, in some shape or form. Why ? Because they have proven to be harmful to society in general.
Are the aboriginees' civil rights infringed upon? not really. As long as they show no effort to be "productive members of society" ( boy, I hate that term ), they'll have to live with the fact that they'll have less rights than those who do. And since when was "drinking booze" part of one's civil rights ?
But I also agree that laws alone won't help fix the underlieing issues here. I am sure the Australian Government is aware of that. It's one part of a complex attempt to tackle the problem, I hope.
I'm starting to wonder... Mal Brough has taken a very, very different approach to every other Indigenous Affairs minister in the past few governments we've seen...
Maybe he wants to change the political suicide predictions that normally come with the appointment as the minister for that portfolio. Anyway, good luck to him and I really hope something good comes of this because they truly are a great peoples with an awesome culture... Which is dying out fast. Got to save what we can.
Edit.
Also need somebody from the Indidgenous community to step up and be a leader... Noel Pearson is trying but his ideas involve taking away all forms of welfare... Which isn't common among community 'leaders' cause they don't want their free money taken away.
Maybe he wants to change the political suicide predictions that normally come with the appointment as the minister for that portfolio. Anyway, good luck to him and I really hope something good comes of this because they truly are a great peoples with an awesome culture... Which is dying out fast. Got to save what we can.
Edit.
Also need somebody from the Indidgenous community to step up and be a leader... Noel Pearson is trying but his ideas involve taking away all forms of welfare... Which isn't common among community 'leaders' cause they don't want their free money taken away.
Last edited by Flecco (2007-06-25 04:17:38)
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Wow, you actually have a minister for them. This really shows that they are treated differently than they should be as they are Australian citizens too.Flecco wrote:
I'm starting to wonder... Mal Brough has taken a very, very different approach to every other Indigenous Affairs minister in the past few governments we've seen...
Maybe he wants to change the political suicide predictions that normally come with the appointment as the minister for that portfolio. Anyway, good luck to him and I really hope something good comes of this because they truly are a great peoples with an awesome culture... Which is dying out fast. Got to save what we can.
Edit.
Also need somebody from the Indidgenous community to step up and be a leader... Noel Pearson is trying but his ideas involve taking away all forms of welfare... Which isn't common among community 'leaders' cause they don't want their free money taken away.
What do they think about this ministry ? What do other Aussies think about it too ?
So are old people, but they have their own department. Should we be taking that, and all their benefits, away?Lost Hope wrote:
This really shows that they are treated differently than they should be as they are Australian citizens too.
No, I wanted to say that having a minister for them is as if they were second class citizens.Bubbalo wrote:
So are old people, but they have their own department. Should we be taking that, and all their benefits, away?Lost Hope wrote:
This really shows that they are treated differently than they should be as they are Australian citizens too.
Are you fucking kidding me? You're saying that giving them a whole extra government department is like treating them as second class citizens? And I suppose people with their own personal chef should be pitied too?
wtf are you on about?Lost Hope wrote:
No, I wanted to say that having a minister for them is as if they were second class citizens.Bubbalo wrote:
So are old people, but they have their own department. Should we be taking that, and all their benefits, away?Lost Hope wrote:
This really shows that they are treated differently than they should be as they are Australian citizens too.