I think that's a nonsense statement, no offense. We are humans, we have a sex drive and a natural interest in violence that comes from our primal survival instinct. That is the reason people watch boxing, porn, horror movies and play violent video games. These are safe outlets for primal drives that do not have a place in modern everyday society anymore. I would argue that I would not trust someone who bottles all of his inner aggression up in an unhealthy way. These drives exist in humans, no point pretending they don't.Spearhead wrote:
Exactly.some_random_panda wrote:
I think he's pointing more to the fact that someone who finds fun in playing as an insane criminal killing other insane criminals and sane people in tremendously bloody ways is probably not an ideal friend.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Why? Afraid I'm gonna gag you with a carrier bag and beat your head in with my bare hands/break your neck (Thats kill one in the original Manhunt).
Seriously, if someones homicidal it's because they have mental issues, not because of a computer game.
Lets just say... I would not trust someone who finds entertainment in shit like that. Kind of like the people who jump from the 7th story of a building into a pool.. just not my cup of tea..
Why don't you read what you said again, use logic this time, and post again when you do. You're comparing an interactive, visually realistic simulation of murder, to literature. There's a difference in watching someone get murdered, and actually committing the murder yourself.blisteringsilence wrote:
Ever read Huck Finn? I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings? Of Mice and Men? Catcher in the Rye? To Kill a Mockingbird?Spearhead wrote:
Use your heads, people.... they're outlawing it so dumbshit parents don't have a chance to let their kids play it. I was at Bestbuy a few years ago, and in the line in front of me a woman was asking her 5 year old son whether GTA San Andreas was the game he wanted for christmas. The truth is, parents don't give a shit nowadays. I'll be willing to bet that kid will be FUBAR by the time hes 15.
You can go on and on about how you should have the right to play games like Manhunt 2... but the fact is, sick shit like that shouldn't even be available for kids to play. I mean, they shouldn't even be within 5 miles of where a kid is. Why? Because kids can literally have their lives ruined by even the tiniest amount of shit that goes on when they're young.
The are dangerous books, if you ask the right people. They should be banned from all libraries, as kids might read them, and this would lead to the end of society as we know it.
I'm not saying everyone who plays Manhunt 2 will be a murderer. What I'm saying is that there's a certain line that, in my opinion, shouldn't be crossed. In my opinion it should be a felony to let any kid under the age of 12 play a rated M game. I started playing rated M games when I was 15, and, after I self examined myself and honestly came to the conclusion that I was mature enough. It wasn't my parents, or anybody. They left me alone and let me decide when I could play the things I wanted.
If you read what I've already said, I SAID I don't agree with banning games. But what I am saying is that I understand why someone would want to ban a game like Manhunt 2. In my honest opinion, no offense meant to anyone out there, you've got to be already fucked up if you want to play such a fucked up game.
It's like saying "Let's not make murder illegal, because there are a small percentage of sickos who find enjoyment in it". Exaggeration, of course, but a pretty good analogy in my view.
John Kelleher noob
Last edited by Tjasso (2007-06-25 05:03:10)
Yes, but you're missing the point here. Mental health is all about balance, and limitations. Of course we all have a sex drive, but would you hang out with someone whos jacking off 30 times a day? Theres a LINE, where natural becomes unnatural.Braddock wrote:
I think that's a nonsense statement, no offense. We are humans, we have a sex drive and a natural interest in violence that comes from our primal survival instinct. That is the reason people watch boxing, porn, horror movies and play violent video games. These are safe outlets for primal drives that do not have a place in modern everyday society anymore. I would argue that I would not trust someone who bottles all of his inner aggression up in an unhealthy way. These drives exist in humans, no point pretending they don't.Spearhead wrote:
Exactly.some_random_panda wrote:
I think he's pointing more to the fact that someone who finds fun in playing as an insane criminal killing other insane criminals and sane people in tremendously bloody ways is probably not an ideal friend.
Lets just say... I would not trust someone who finds entertainment in shit like that. Kind of like the people who jump from the 7th story of a building into a pool.. just not my cup of tea..
Another example. Someone who plays a first person shooter 40 hours a week for 3 years in a row will be 99 percent likely to have mental health issues, minor ones at least. It's all about.. balance. If one aspect, such as violence or sex drive becomes to heavy, the whole ship capsizes.
Last edited by Spearhead (2007-06-25 04:59:17)
John Kelleher is actually usually not that bad, I'm surprised he took this action. This is the same guy who allowed Gaspar Noe's 'Irreversible' a limited cinema release and full retail release here.Tjasso wrote:
John Kelleher noob
I wouldn't hang out with the guy if he insisted on masturbating in front of me! Your argument seems to be about the amount of gameplay rather than the game itself. There are guidelines regarding how long someone should play games or watch TV per day, if these are followed then there shouldn't be a problem.Spearhead wrote:
Yes, but you're missing the point here. Mental health is all about balance, and limitations. Of course we all have a sex drive, but would you hang out with someone whos jacking off 30 times a day? Theres a LINE, where natural becomes unnatural.Braddock wrote:
I think that's a nonsense statement, no offense. We are humans, we have a sex drive and a natural interest in violence that comes from our primal survival instinct. That is the reason people watch boxing, porn, horror movies and play violent video games. These are safe outlets for primal drives that do not have a place in modern everyday society anymore. I would argue that I would not trust someone who bottles all of his inner aggression up in an unhealthy way. These drives exist in humans, no point pretending they don't.Spearhead wrote:
Exactly.
Lets just say... I would not trust someone who finds entertainment in shit like that. Kind of like the people who jump from the 7th story of a building into a pool.. just not my cup of tea..
Another example. Someone who plays a first person shooter 40 hours a week for 3 years in a row will be 99 percent likely to have mental health issues, minor ones at least. It's all about.. balance. If one aspect, such as violence or sex drive becomes to heavy, the whole ship capsizes.
Can I ask you, do you have any friends in the military? These people are trained to dehumanise their victims and kill (in reality, not as part of a game), they are allowed to integrate in normal society even after experiencing horrific war zones. What should be done with these people in your opinion?
those people (not the militairy folks who come back in civilian live;) ) dont know reality from fiction if it stood in front of them
most shit about games come from people who never have experienced a true good game ... we know its not real
most shit about games come from people who never have experienced a true good game ... we know its not real
Last edited by Tjasso (2007-06-25 05:08:44)
It's ok for this kinda stuff to be sold in a movie at Wal-mart, but its taboo in a video game..
whatever.
whatever.
I don't think this has to do with censorship. This is not a newspaper article, or some other form of opinion-presenting. This is art, or more precisely, entertainment ( I don't thimk anything released by Rockstar would qualify as art ). Entertainment with a business background. And for titles released in the entertainment industry, there have always been standards determining what is acceptable and what is not. This applies to the display or re-enactment of nudity as well as violence or other activities that are prohibited for minors.
so what's the big deal here ? We all know that laws won't help shit, if they are badly enforced by bad parenting, or retailers who look away when a minor is purchasing a game for adults. Moreover, in the days of online shops and credit cards, national laws usually can be easily bypassed.
This is the same debate we are conducting with regard to cigarettes or alcohol. In the end, it's rarely the laws that aren't sufficient, it's how well they are enforced.
I think we all agree that there are some things out there that none of us would want his young children to be exposed to, be it violence, sex, drugs, aolcohol or cigarettes. The solution is obviously a combination of laws ( which restrict release / sale of such content / products ) and a responsible community that helps enforce these laws.
I dare say the latter is the more important part of the equasion. Good parenting, responsible sales personnel, and companies that take their social responsibility seriously.
so what's the big deal here ? We all know that laws won't help shit, if they are badly enforced by bad parenting, or retailers who look away when a minor is purchasing a game for adults. Moreover, in the days of online shops and credit cards, national laws usually can be easily bypassed.
This is the same debate we are conducting with regard to cigarettes or alcohol. In the end, it's rarely the laws that aren't sufficient, it's how well they are enforced.
I think we all agree that there are some things out there that none of us would want his young children to be exposed to, be it violence, sex, drugs, aolcohol or cigarettes. The solution is obviously a combination of laws ( which restrict release / sale of such content / products ) and a responsible community that helps enforce these laws.
I dare say the latter is the more important part of the equasion. Good parenting, responsible sales personnel, and companies that take their social responsibility seriously.
You are fusing the realms of entertainment and politics. Someone who serves in the military and enjoys killing, I'd say, has a head problem. But the fact is, military service is required of people in order to protect their country. A very small percentage of them even see combat, let alone actually kill a person. And from what I've heard, out of all the soldiers who have ever served in the military, only a very small percentage of THEM are proud of killing another person.Braddock wrote:
I wouldn't hang out with the guy if he insisted on masturbating in front of me! Your argument seems to be about the amount of gameplay rather than the game itself. There are guidelines regarding how long someone should play games or watch TV per day, if these are followed then there shouldn't be a problem.Spearhead wrote:
Yes, but you're missing the point here. Mental health is all about balance, and limitations. Of course we all have a sex drive, but would you hang out with someone whos jacking off 30 times a day? Theres a LINE, where natural becomes unnatural.Braddock wrote:
I think that's a nonsense statement, no offense. We are humans, we have a sex drive and a natural interest in violence that comes from our primal survival instinct. That is the reason people watch boxing, porn, horror movies and play violent video games. These are safe outlets for primal drives that do not have a place in modern everyday society anymore. I would argue that I would not trust someone who bottles all of his inner aggression up in an unhealthy way. These drives exist in humans, no point pretending they don't.
Another example. Someone who plays a first person shooter 40 hours a week for 3 years in a row will be 99 percent likely to have mental health issues, minor ones at least. It's all about.. balance. If one aspect, such as violence or sex drive becomes to heavy, the whole ship capsizes.
Can I ask you, do you have any friends in the military? These people are trained to dehumanise their victims and kill (in reality, not as part of a game), they are allowed to integrate in normal society even after experiencing horrific war zones. What should be done with these people in your opinion?
Ultimately, it's just not a good comparison. One is entertainment, one is service. There's a difference in enjoying something sick, and doing something sick in service/protection of your country.
I might join the military when I graduate,
But if we're talking about mental conditioning and how too much video game playing can effect this it is a good comparison. Whether soldiers see action or not the mental conditioning has still been drilled into them in their training and in a much more severe way than video games could ever do.Spearhead wrote:
You are fusing the realms of entertainment and politics. Someone who serves in the military and enjoys killing, I'd say, has a head problem. But the fact is, military service is required of people in order to protect their country. A very small percentage of them even see combat, let alone actually kill a person. And from what I've heard, out of all the soldiers who have ever served in the military, only a very small percentage of THEM are proud of killing another person.Braddock wrote:
I wouldn't hang out with the guy if he insisted on masturbating in front of me! Your argument seems to be about the amount of gameplay rather than the game itself. There are guidelines regarding how long someone should play games or watch TV per day, if these are followed then there shouldn't be a problem.Spearhead wrote:
Yes, but you're missing the point here. Mental health is all about balance, and limitations. Of course we all have a sex drive, but would you hang out with someone whos jacking off 30 times a day? Theres a LINE, where natural becomes unnatural.
Another example. Someone who plays a first person shooter 40 hours a week for 3 years in a row will be 99 percent likely to have mental health issues, minor ones at least. It's all about.. balance. If one aspect, such as violence or sex drive becomes to heavy, the whole ship capsizes.
Can I ask you, do you have any friends in the military? These people are trained to dehumanise their victims and kill (in reality, not as part of a game), they are allowed to integrate in normal society even after experiencing horrific war zones. What should be done with these people in your opinion?
Ultimately, it's just not a good comparison. One is entertainment, one is service. There's a difference in enjoying something sick, and doing something sick in service/protection of your country.
I might join the military when I graduate,
I've seen videos on this forum of US and British soldiers whooping and cheering after shooting and beating people in a warzone, these could be regarded as characteristics of enjoying oneself could they not? Can I ask you, would you rather piss off a Vietnam veteran or a Manhunt 2 fan? I know which one I'd avoid.
My point is the Government can consider it okay to send a boy of 18 to go and become a trained killer but it can then turn around and say 'you're not allowed to play this videogame, it's too violent' ...Ludicrous.