Pages: 1 2

 

2007-06-28 13:43:12
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Inevitability of war between the US and Iran?  I don't agree with that.  Diplomatic pressure can be successful.
not when it gets sabotaged from within.

I just dont see a peaceful solution satisfying this admin or anyone else involved with PNAC.



The same way we're not leaving Iraq for next few years.  Gauranteed. we're not just NOT leaving, but were gonna send more and more troops in.
You are probably right.  But who is it calling the shots?  I have yet to read any intelligence report or hear any General argue that Iran is a threat to our country.  The only things I have been reading regarding Iran is 1) emotional, borderline propaganda about the Iranian Government, and 2)how the push to accept Euros in lieu of dollars for oil is hurting the strength of the American dollar.

Can anybody provide me with any type of Intelligence/Military analysis that concludes Iran is a threat?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-28 14:14:16)

2007-06-28 13:52:53
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA
are the iranians not fomenting violence within iraq and supplying weapons to the insurgency?  would that make them a threat?  it's not like they are completely innocent.
2007-06-28 14:08:03
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

are the iranians not fomenting violence within iraq and supplying weapons to the insurgency?  would that make them a threat?  it's not like they are completely innocent.
There is not much (if any) concrete evidence that ^^ is happening, but there is a lot of speculation.  And I refuse to believe Iran providing weapons to the insurgency would constitute a threat against the US.  It may be "wrong" (providing insurgents with weapons), but the US oversees a vast international arms trading economy, so they (people in Government) hardly have the objectivity to lecture in that regard.

Sanctions on the Nuclear Program, increased diplomatic relations with the EU/Security Council, and a willingness to meet with IAEA inspectors all point to both the international community and Iran wanting a peaceful compromise.  It seems the US (Bush Administration) is causing the most hysteria in regards to rhetoric and threats of conflict.
2007-06-28 15:48:45
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7088

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Inevitability of war between the US and Iran?  I don't agree with that.  Diplomatic pressure can be successful.
not when it gets sabotaged from within.

I just dont see a peaceful solution satisfying this admin or anyone else involved with PNAC.



The same way we're not leaving Iraq for next few years.  Guaranteed. we're not just NOT leaving, but were gonna send more and more troops in.
You are probably right.  But who is it calling the shots?  I have yet to read any intelligence report or hear any General argue that Iran is a threat to our country.  The only things I have been reading regarding Iran is 1) emotional, borderline propaganda about the Iranian Government, and 2)how the push to accept Euros in lieu of dollars for oil is hurting the strength of the American dollar.

Can anybody provide me with any type of Intelligence/Military analysis that concludes Iran is a threat?
In regards to Iraq, Iran is a huge threat to the stability of that country.  But then again, so was the invasion.  Note I say invasion and not current American presence for any of those who would like to mince my words (not you, your from OC).  Iran is behind a lot of the violence without a doubt in my mind.  The Iranian gov't is undermining what the Multi-National forces are trying to accomplish in Iraq's reconstruction/construction as well as amnesty for any of the forgiveable insurgency.  Sunni Iraqis hate Iranians and viceversa


Is that justifiable cause for war?  Iranian agents are killing our soldier and marines.  Is the Iranian gov't behind it?  I think so.  Could you blame the Iranians for holding this kind of policy?  No, no more than you could blame the United States for invading Iraq (my opinion).  But likewise, you cant blame the United States for agression when there is clearly casus belli.  There has been cause for war since 1979.   In the eyes of those that run this country and steer its agenda,  Iran  does not have to pose a threat to the people of the United States for a justifiable reason for war. 

WHy do they call it the department of defense?  They changed the name during the 20th century from its prior title "Department of War".

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-06-28 15:51:31)

2007-06-28 15:52:49
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6935|Menlo Park, CA

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

are the iranians not fomenting violence within iraq and supplying weapons to the insurgency?  would that make them a threat?  it's not like they are completely innocent.
Not too mention funding various terror groups worldwide, killing Marines in the early 80's, giving weapons and supplies to terror groups, hostage taking. . . . . the list goes on!!

Let me ask you guys this. . . Why on earth does an intollerant regime like Iran deserve the most powerful weapon on the planet??

There is NOTHING that anyone can put on the table that would indicate Iran being a responsible caretaker of a nuclear weapon. . . .NOTHING!

They are a racist, intollerant, criminal terrorist regime that needs to be dealt with militarily! Due to the fact all other avenues for peace, negotiations, and tranqulity HAVE FAILED! The global community doesnt want them having nuclear weapons either. Its not just the USA that wants them disarmed or should I say armed. . . .
2007-06-28 16:08:21
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

In regards to Iraq, Iran is a huge threat to the stability of that country.  But then again, so was the invasion.  Note I say invasion and not current American presence for any of those who would like to mince my words (not you, your from OC).  Iran is behind a lot of the violence without a doubt in my mind.  The Iranian gov't is undermining what the Multi-National forces are trying to accomplish in Iraq's reconstruction/construction as well as amnesty for any of the forgiveable insurgency.  Sunni Iraqis hate Iranians and viceversa


Is that justifiable cause for war?  Iranian agents are killing our soldier and marines.  Is the Iranian gov't behind it?  I think so.  Could you blame the Iranians for holding this kind of policy?  No, no more than you could blame the United States for invading Iraq (my opinion).  But likewise, you cant blame the United States for agression when there is clearly casus belli.  There has been cause for war since 1979.   In the eyes of those that run this country and steer its agenda,  Iran  does not have to pose a threat to the people of the Unites States for a justifiable reason for war. 

WHy do they call it the department of defense?  They changed the name during the 20th century from its prior title "Department of War".
Iran is most certainly a huge threat to the stability of Iraq..  So is Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.  I do not see Iraq being 'stable' regardless if we (Coalition of the willing) are there or not.  It (stability, civility in Iraq) is something that must be self-imposed in my opinion.  Same with Iran - there is a large amount of dissidence in Iran right now - international independent media groups are reporting on large amounts of protests (and arrests) throughout the country (majority are students from what I have read).  It is not up to the US to undermine regimes that it views as unfriendly to US economic interests and principles.  I have faith in the people of that country to stand up to their own corrupt and morally devoid rulers.

The factional violence there (Middle East) really does transcend the (expediently created) national borders.  Any way that Iran can undermine what it perceives as Western Power it will, much like the Soviets did during the Cold War.  I have no illusions as to the intent of Iran.  I agree that some support for the insurgency is provided by Iran.  I am simply pointing out that there is not enough documented evidence to argue the case of war.  The way I see it though, this Administration asked for it; the Bush Administration describing Iran as a part of the "Axis of Evil" essentially polarized Iran/US relations.  The actions we are taking and the rhetoric being used is further polarizing these relations, while the rest of the world seems to be warming up their respective relations.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-28 16:08:51)

2007-06-28 16:12:21
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7088

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

In regards to Iraq, Iran is a huge threat to the stability of that country.  But then again, so was the invasion.  Note I say invasion and not current American presence for any of those who would like to mince my words (not you, your from OC).  Iran is behind a lot of the violence without a doubt in my mind.  The Iranian gov't is undermining what the Multi-National forces are trying to accomplish in Iraq's reconstruction/construction as well as amnesty for any of the forgiveable insurgency.  Sunni Iraqis hate Iranians and viceversa


Is that justifiable cause for war?  Iranian agents are killing our soldier and marines.  Is the Iranian gov't behind it?  I think so.  Could you blame the Iranians for holding this kind of policy?  No, no more than you could blame the United States for invading Iraq (my opinion).  But likewise, you cant blame the United States for agression when there is clearly casus belli.  There has been cause for war since 1979.   In the eyes of those that run this country and steer its agenda,  Iran  does not have to pose a threat to the people of the Unites States for a justifiable reason for war. 

WHy do they call it the department of defense?  They changed the name during the 20th century from its prior title "Department of War".
Iran is most certainly a huge threat to the stability of Iraq..  So is Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.  I do not see Iraq being 'stable' regardless if we (Coalition of the willing) are there or not.  It (stability, civility in Iraq) is something that must be self-imposed in my opinion.  Same with Iran - there is a large amount of dissidence in Iran right now - international independent media groups are reporting on large amounts of protests (and arrests) throughout the country (majority are students from what I have read).  It is not up to the US to undermine regimes that it views as unfriendly to US economic interests and principles.  I have faith in the people of that country to stand up to their own corrupt and morally devoid rulers.

The factional violence there (Middle East) really does transcend the (expediently created) national borders.  Any way that Iran can undermine what it perceives as Western Power it will, much like the Soviets did during the Cold War.  I have no illusions as to the intent of Iran.  I agree that some support for the insurgency is provided by Iran.  I am simply pointing out that there is not enough documented evidence to argue the case of war.  The way I see it though, this Administration asked for it; the Bush Administration describing Iran as a part of the "Axis of Evil" essentially polarized Iran/US relations.  The actions we are taking and the rhetoric being used is further polarizing these relations, while the rest of the world seems to be warming up their respective relations.
agree with you in principal, seriously.  but, wars have been started over lesser infractions.
2007-06-28 16:22:32
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Iran is most certainly a huge threat to the stability of Iraq..  So is Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.  I do not see Iraq being 'stable' regardless if we (Coalition of the willing) are there or not.  It (stability, civility in Iraq) is something that must be self-imposed in my opinion.  Same with Iran - there is a large amount of dissidence in Iran right now - international independent media groups are reporting on large amounts of protests (and arrests) throughout the country (majority are students from what I have read).  It is not up to the US to undermine regimes that it views as unfriendly to US economic interests and principles.  I have faith in the people of that country to stand up to their own corrupt and morally devoid rulers.

The factional violence there (Middle East) really does transcend the (expediently created) national borders.  Any way that Iran can undermine what it perceives as Western Power it will, much like the Soviets did during the Cold War.  I have no illusions as to the intent of Iran.  I agree that some support for the insurgency is provided by Iran.  I am simply pointing out that there is not enough documented evidence to argue the case of war.  The way I see it though, this Administration asked for it; the Bush Administration describing Iran as a part of the "Axis of Evil" essentially polarized Iran/US relations.  The actions we are taking and the rhetoric being used is further polarizing these relations, while the rest of the world seems to be warming up their respective relations.
agree with you in principal, seriously.  but, wars have been started over lesser infractions.
Word.  Let's hope people in Iran and the US don't fall for the inevitable escalation of words and actions of both regimes.
2007-06-28 16:24:53
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|7111

Funny how the students brought about the rise of the Fundamentalists.  Now, they are the ones working to bring about their fall.
2007-06-28 16:26:15
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7088

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Word.  Let's hope people in Iran and the US don't fall for the inevitable escalation of words and actions of both regimes.
I wish my outlook was as good as yours brother, but fuck man, November 2004 pretty much sealed my outlook on humanity pretty effectively.
2007-06-28 16:27:59
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

Ilocano wrote:

Funny how the students brought about the rise of the Fundamentalists.  Now, they are the ones working to bring about their fall.
Yeah, I felt it necessary to include that.  Could be a very telling insight into the ideological changes of the people of Iran.


https://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-28 16:31:39)

2007-06-28 16:37:29
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Funny how the students brought about the rise of the Fundamentalists.  Now, they are the ones working to bring about their fall.
Yeah, I felt it necessary to include that.  Could be a very telling insight into the ideological changes of the people of Iran.


http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
i wonder if this guy is still alive and with his head.  hmmm.
2007-06-28 16:40:12
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA
This pretty much sums up the axis of evil:

http://www.gamespot.com/users/bloody1f4 … P65bsFvDPZ

great skit. 

Last edited by CaptainSpaulding71 (2007-06-28 16:44:08)

2007-06-28 16:40:28
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7088

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Funny how the students brought about the rise of the Fundamentalists.  Now, they are the ones working to bring about their fall.
Yeah, I felt it necessary to include that.  Could be a very telling insight into the ideological changes of the people of Iran.


http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
sucks about that though is if/when we engage in hostilities, any hope of securing a unified dissent to the ayatollahs will be long gone.  The outbreak of War always unifies a population no matter what there differences.
2007-06-28 23:31:05
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6935|Menlo Park, CA
The Iranians arent stupid people at all. . .

Unfortunately they as many other muslim nations, have been hijacked!!!

I personally have friends that are Persian, and know many through my work, and they hate the current regime.  I know I know they have been Americanized, but at the same time they still keep in contact with many still in Iran! To the point where many inside Iran are very scared of a confrontation with the USA.  Most Iranians that aren't extremist are content with the USA, they may have some dislike for George Bush, but appreciate the American way of life. 

However the fact remains. . . .The Iranians arent doing enough to change the status quo in their country, therefore are subject to the outcome of the eventual American involvement in their country.  The students can protest all they want but thats not going to change the radicals still running the "show"!!! 

I dont think any sane person wants to see war between these two nations, but we are heading down a path of no return!!  Saddam played games/baited the USA, and look where it got him.  The Iranians are doing the same thing. . . . Bottom line, is the USA gets tired of playing games after a while!!!
2007-06-28 23:44:01
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Could be a very telling insight into the ideological changes of the people of Iran.
Nope.  It's because most popular revolutions are lead by universities.  The last one was due to an unpopular dictatorship, this one is due to an unpopular theocracy.  Universities tend to be the centrepiece of Liberalisation.
2007-06-29 09:16:54
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

Bubbalo wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Could be a very telling insight into the ideological changes of the people of Iran.
Nope.  It's because most popular revolutions are lead by universities.  The last one was due to an unpopular dictatorship, this one is due to an unpopular theocracy.  Universities tend to be the centrepiece of Liberalisation.
Oh yeah, how could I forget that liberal Ayatollah Khomeini!
2007-06-29 09:19:46
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005
Compared to the previous administration, yeah.  Liberal.  Or at least, he was at the time.
2007-06-29 09:53:33
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7076|949

Bubbalo wrote:

Compared to the previous administration, yeah.  Liberal.  Or at least, he was at the time.
No he wasn't.  He was a religious extremist, and nationalist.
2007-06-29 19:48:17
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6849|North Carolina

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Compared to the previous administration, yeah.  Liberal.  Or at least, he was at the time.
No he wasn't.  He was a religious extremist, and nationalist.
Yep...  universities are better described as centerpieces for extremism, liberal or otherwise.  Anytime you have a large group of people with a lot of knowledge and not much worldly experience, you're likely to find radicals of one sort or another....

Khomeini was more liberal than the Shah in terms of certain democratic principles, but overall, he was a fucking ultraconservative powermonger.

The people of Iran just traded one oppression for another....
2007-07-02 11:57:37
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|7111

fadedsteve wrote:

The Iranians arent stupid people at all. . .

Unfortunately they as many other muslim nations, have been hijacked!!!

I personally have friends that are Persian, and know many through my work, and they hate the current regime.  I know I know they have been Americanized, but at the same time they still keep in contact with many still in Iran! To the point where many inside Iran are very scared of a confrontation with the USA.  Most Iranians that aren't extremist are content with the USA, they may have some dislike for George Bush, but appreciate the American way of life. 

However the fact remains. . . .The Iranians arent doing enough to change the status quo in their country, therefore are subject to the outcome of the eventual American involvement in their country.  The students can protest all they want but thats not going to change the radicals still running the "show"!!! 

I dont think any sane person wants to see war between these two nations, but we are heading down a path of no return!!  Saddam played games/baited the USA, and look where it got him.  The Iranians are doing the same thing. . . . Bottom line, is the USA gets tired of playing games after a while!!!
Having worked in Orange County, I have known quite a few Persians.  One used to be a Colonel in the Shah's air force.  He showed me pictures of him being trained by US pilots.  Another friend was from a well-to-do Iranian family.  He often went to Turkey to party-up American style.  At least the wealthy were happy with the Shah.

 

Pages: 1 2

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard