BF2S Forums Everyone wins when every has health insurance

Blehm98 wrote:

the only reason the US healthcare system has problems is because there are so many illegals sucking all the hospitals dry, so they ahve to charge more and close down their southern hospitals

Just had to get that in, very important point

I work in medicine. This is not true. While part of the problem, this is by no means the only reason, nor primary one.

Bubbalo wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

You do know that more people decreases the cost per person?

Are you aware of the healthcare cost in America? Per citizen the US government contributes nearly 6k a year. That exceeds any other government backed socialized medical plan. The real problem is the cost... of course thats why you don't have to wait months for simple procedures like MRI's here.

Well then maybe you should take some lessons from other countries on how to run it.

I don't know how many times I'm going to post this little tidbit. I should really just print screen to a jpg, and start pasting.

Americans pay more for healthcare and medications because our dollars are doing 96% of the research of the entire world. We pay the most, and as a result, we get the best and newest of everything. And then everyone else complains that it costs too much, and everyone should get free everything, and the world would be a happy place, and no more children would starve in Bangladesh, and I would get a new firetruck every Christmas.

There is no free lunch. Bubs, why don't you get on your government to, i dunno, 14x its current medical research budget. Who knows, we might get to pay less here in the US if the rest of the planet starts picking up the slack.

Bubbalo wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

You do know that more people decreases the cost per person?

Are you aware of the healthcare cost in America? Per citizen the US government contributes nearly 6k a year. That exceeds any other government backed socialized medical plan. The real problem is the cost... of course thats why you don't have to wait months for simple procedures like MRI's here.

Well then maybe you should take some lessons from other countries on how to run it.

We're way TOO BIG of a nation to have "socialized medicine". . . . it would bankrupt our companies and our country!

Which country that is even remotely the size of the United States "has" a "successful" "socialized medical" program????







. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . there is none!

In response to a couple of posts:

America ought be paying less for medicine relative to other Western countries because they also have to pay to import it from the US.  If this isn't the case, you're doing something wrong.

fadedsteve, you do know that a if there are more people there's also more money?

Bubbalo wrote:

America ought be paying less for medicine relative to other Western countries because they also have to pay to import it from the US.  If this isn't the case, you're doing something wrong.

Health care isn't cars. With the great majority of products, manufacture is more expensive than the R&D. In health care, the R&D is what you're paying for. It may only cost $0.28 for the materials and time to make a pill, but you also have to pay for the $750,000,000 the company invested in creating it. The same goes for diagnostic devices, implants, etc. It's why a titanium bone screw is $3,000, and the same titanium screw for metal is $12.

blisteringsilence wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

America ought be paying less for medicine relative to other Western countries because they also have to pay to import it from the US.  If this isn't the case, you're doing something wrong.

Health care isn't cars. With the great majority of products, manufacture is more expensive than the R&D. In health care, the R&D is what you're paying for. It may only cost $0.28 for the materials and time to make a pill, but you also have to pay for the $750,000,000 the company invested in creating it. The same goes for diagnostic devices, implants, etc. It's why a titanium bone screw is $3,000, and the same titanium screw for metal is $12.

Yes, and the R&D costs are factored into the cost of the product.  If everyone else is getting it cheaper, it's because they're being given a discount, in which case the US government should be having stern words with them.

Sorry, as much as I give to charity this is not something I'm going to do.

If I need emergency surgery I'm not going to wait months so I'm either in alot of pain or may die because.

1.  Make insurance payments tax deductable
2.  Allow Medical Savings Accounts that transfer from year-to-year (they work like an IRA)
3.  Tort reform
4.  Fix the illegal immigrant problem (70+ hospitals in California have closed because of illegals)
5.  Encourage more doctors and nurses (pay them more, give them grants for college)

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.

They don't loose if the cost of hiring a replacement is less than the cost of support.

Well think about it if they cycle through employes their reputation gets shot to hell and the loose not only work force but buisness as well. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire.

take a look at mcdonalds and the modern day meat packing industry. they dont offer insurance to their workers. when people at the meatpacking plants get hurt, they are indirectly encouraged to leave through lowered wages. same thing with mcdonalds, they just cycle through the pool of waiting unskilled workers/immigrants looking for jobs.

and nothing is happening to either group's reputations. the meatpacking industry sells a large portion of their cattle/chicken to mcdonalds and other fast food companies. masses of people worldwide still buy the poison that these restaurants sell. their reputation is irrelavent. people are still buying their products and they are making large amounts of money, which is all that matters in this capitalistic hell we call civilized society.

CameronPoe wrote:

CC-Marley wrote:

Government Health Care Sucks. It may sound good but it really isn't. Think about it again....

Works in Europe & Canada and especially so in Sweden, Norway, Switzerland.

Depends of your definition of "works" is.

NHS can work if

- enough people have jobs to pay into the system
- people are encouraged to live a healthy life ( eat healthy, no smoking, regular workout ) and visit their doctor regularly, to ensure health issues are discovered before they get worse
- there is no abuse of the system, e.g. through illegals who make use of the system, but don't contribute themselves financially

I have done my best in the past couple of years to follow those principles, and you can count the number of times I have visited a doctor over a five-year-period with one hand. With the exception of accidents and genetically-induced illnesses ( such as cancer ), there is actually little that can harm the human body, if you take the necessary precautions.

As a result, I have consumed much less than I have paid into the system.

Unfortunately, those who take their responsibility towards society seriously like that seem to be a minority. People smoke, eat too much fat and sugar, consume too much alcohol and generally neglect their body. The resulting health problems put an unnecessary load on the NHS.

Let's use a car analogy here. If you take the time to do regular check-ups of your vehicle, and keep all parts in good condition, you'll have a much better chance to not only be able to use it for a longer period of time, but also avoid costly major repairs or part replacements.

Gee, I hope that made sense...

The American system for healthcare is by no means perfect, but if you have money you'll get the best health care.

The question is whether healthcare is a basic human right?   If it is then the state should supply it.  But then shouldn't the state also feed you?  What about shelter you?  When does it end?

What I think is wrong with the American health care system that could be improved:

1.  We should stress preventitive health care and reward it (right now we reward NOT doing tests and procedures)

2.  After 7 years ALL drugs should be public domain, before then the drug company can charge whatever they want and whatever the market will bare (this encourages drug companies to make wonder drugs - does that mean that people will die during the 7 years, yes, but then if there was no incentive for the drug the drug would had never been made).

3.  Health Insurance should be tax deductable and required by law for employees just like drivers insurance is required to drive a car (a very basic package would be required by all employees to have - yeah I know its socalistic, but I think its necessary $15/month)

4.  Fix the illegal immigration problem (70+ hospitals in the last 10 years have closed in California because of illegals - I would rather pay for an American bum's healthcare than an illegal who works).

5.  Doctors and hospitals that give free health care should have those procedures/drugs tax deductable (just like a charitable donation)

6.  Drug companies give their drug away to the poor should have it tax deductable (just like a charitable donation)




My solution: I say if you speak spanish say you're an illegal and you'll get free healthcare.

P.S.  I don't want to wait 4 months for an emergency procedure just because its 'free'.

Last edited by Harmor (2007-06-29 08:29:42)

Bubbalo wrote:

Harmor wrote:

but if you have money you'll get the best health care.

And if you don't, you get to watch your children die slowly and painfully!

That is not true. The cost to others here that pay for health insurance just goes up a bit.