BF2S Forums Next step, Border Enforcement and Employee Tamperproof cards?

How about:

Mexicans stay in Mexico!!
maybe Mexico makes it more enjoyable of a place so people don't want to leave??

Personally, I'm liking the concrete wall idea.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. You're saying we should have all the illegal immigrants register at the post office and then after five years we consider doing something about them? Amazing. Maybe we should also have all the unconvicted rapists in the country register at the post office and we can consider arresting them after five years too? If they're here illegally, then they are criminals. It's total bullshit that these particular criminals should be given a pass to break the law just because they're willing to wash our dishes and mow our yards for half of minimum wage.

Think about this, whats if they were terrorist. Then our Nation would do something about it. Right now the main thing our government is worried about is terrorism and the war in Iraq. Hundreds of the thousands that come over are criminals escaping imprisonment in Mexico. I have no problem with Mexicans, in a matter of fact I think they are great hard-working individuals, but only those that are legal citizens. I feel they should become legal citizens like the rest of us so we can stop paying for all there problems.

The problem here is we have sort of a Catch-22.

How do you keep poor Mexicans from coming into the US illegally to find work? A wall will keep out some, but as Harmor suggested, a lot of these measures will just push it farther underground. A work visa program will NOT be widespread enough to allow 20 million people into the country to all make minimum wage or more. The US economy probably won't be able to support that. The solution is to remove their desire to come here. We do that by helping to raise the standard of living in Mexico.

How do you raise the standard of living in Mexico when the government is known for widespread corruption and misappropriating funds? You find a way to get the money directly into the hands of the people. A work visa program would be a good start for this, but again, would not be able to support the sheer volume of people who will try to come in. So... you "let" a number of the population sneak through the border and work illegally in the country for almost slave wages. Now businesses can afford the labor they need to keep prices competitive and the Mexican people get billions (and billions and billions) in aid each year.

Immigration And Terror And Stuff!!!

The two big issues for both parties? Immigration and terror. Here’s how one issue can solve the other.

Those behind terror are reproducing like crazy. They pump out killers like they’re Doritos. Meanwhile, westerners wear condoms and get abortions. As the enemy grows, we shrink. Numbers dictate success. However, we have a secret weapon: Mexicans.

They’re hard workers and very Catholic - which means they reproduce and are good neighbors. They also love Chevys and think Morrissey is Elvis.

Mexicans are the Eisenhower Generation.

We’ve got two kinds of people making more people. One fosters fanatics who want to blow up our buildings. The other group wants to vacuum them. I know who I’m with. Mexicans. They’re one hope against an enemy whose aim is our own extinction.

While Mexicans bus your table, they’re defending western civilization. While they blow the leaves off your lawn, they’re striking a blow against terror. Mexicans are the Mace against madmen, because they out-screw the creeps who kill for Allah. As we embrace cats over kids, Mexicans multiply - preventing us from becoming Europe - a continent flooded by people who hate them. Mexican families love this country. I don’t like Mexico (diarrhea, people) but I love Mexicans. If you are Mexican, and you aren’t here yet… then come… in every sense of the word. We welcome you with open arms and legs.

We need Mexicans more than they need us. They risk their lives to get here and they’re grateful to be here. So embrace the new front on the war on terror. He’s your waiter. He may be five foot two, but don’t be fooled. He’s tough.

And if you really want to strike a blow against al queda? Tip him twenty five percent.

And that’s my gut feeling.

Be sure to watch Red Eye on Fox News at 2am EST.

elstonieo wrote:

a good start would be that every American that goes to Mexico has to have a passport (or has this changed already)

Have you tried to go past the border towns in Mexico?  You'll see how quickly the police arrest you.

And you thought Abu-grabe was bad...try a Mexican prison.

How about giving illegals a chance to interrgrate into the country. Kinda like will scratch you back if you scratch ours.

My Idea:
1 year military service or 5 years of holding a job.
Must not have a criminal record from country of origin or any other country and must stay crime/drug free during application period
Must learn to speak english before the end of application period (1-5yrs depending on military or civilian)
Will not be allowed to vote during application period
Must take a test on laws of the United States
Must take a United States History Test
Must pass a simple Mathmatics/Science Test
Must pass Drivers Education and Obtain a United States Drivers Liscense before the end of application period (1-5yrs military or civilian)
Not allowed to own a weapon during application period

Just a few ideas but not all of mine.

Commie Killer wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Personally, I think that's being lenient.

I really like the first 2 suggestions, but I'm all for prosecuting employers of illegals severely, deporting illegals themselves to an island in the Pacific, and maybe stretching a very large minefield across the Mexican border.

Whatever the case, the Mexican government has been proven to be colluding with the efforts of illegals, while they still have laws against Americans owning businesses there.

I say fuck the Mexican government.  If they can't get their shit together, revoke NAFTA and "annex" a few choice pieces of land.

That'll teach them a lesson.

Wow, I dont usually agree with you but damn, you hit the nail on the head there.

LOL...  Immigration is one of the few issues that I'm very conservative on.

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

Im liking the big ass fence idea with troops guarding it. If you get arrested and you are a illegal alien, then good bye. And hell, why dont we give the Mexican government some incentives to keep their people down there. Kinda like we will start enforcing the laws, down there, without the permission of their government, and with military forces.

What you are suggestion is a full scale invasion, and admitidly the most insane idea about immigration ive heard to date. Illegal aliens only hop the fence because a green card is insanly expensive (1500 USD last time i checked). If we give them other options, like the idea i suggested in my post, then they wont hope the fence to become illegals, or better yet we can improve trade with mexico and pump up thier economy so the mexicans will actually stay in mexico. What i find ironic about the whole situation is the mexico is having the same problems or immigration with guatamelns/nicaraguans.

You do make some fair points here, and the Guatamalan/Nicaraguan issue is a good but often overlooked point.

It is true that we should probably decrease the cost of green cards.  Maybe we could knock it down to $250.

Ultimately, what concerns me is that we make sure these people are paying into the system and that they are paid a decent wage.  The whole beginning to this problem was how many employers tried to get out cheap in hiring.  They figured out they could pay illegals way less than actual citizens.  This is a very unethical way of doing business that must be dealt with severely.

All people who work in America should be doing so legally and should be paid at least the minimum wage.  No respectable business owner can say that paying someone $5.15 an hour is going to break his/her bank.  If it really does, then they either need to take out a loan or just find another job.  That's a paltry sum to be paying someone, and even raising the minimum wage by a dollar shouldn't be a problem.

It's also good to have information on all immigrants, because if they commit a crime, it's much easier to find and punish them if they are in the system.  If they aren't, then all sorts of nasty things can happen.  For one thing, MS-13 has been doing all kinds of evil things, and we find it very difficult to keep tabs on them because so many of their people are invisible to the system.

So, if we can't fix the system in terms of keeping decent records on who is entering and leaving, then we must take the more drastic route I posted.

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

Ah but if we make citizenship gained by actions and not money with soem of the ideas from my post then they would be protected under the minimum wage act correct?

Very true...  My only worry is what kind of message it sends to future potential illegals.  For example, if we do give them a route to citizenship, what incentive does a potential immigrant have for doing things the legal way?  Many of them will just figure that they can jump the border and worry about it later since we're soft on our enforcement of these laws.

Granted, on the other hand, your method would possibly be more cost-effective and would make better use out of these people than my plan.

OK so i keep seeing that military service should be an option for these people.. I have just a few ideas about that.

Only under certain circumstances should we give illegals the option of staying in the US in exchange for military service. If a program like that was to be put in place there would have to be very specific guidelines or you would see TONS of issues.

If we take 12,000,000 illegals as a conservative number i bet at least 1-2 million of them would want to join the military for 1 year and there is NO WAY the US military could logistically or financially sustain that sort of influx... no way. They would be entitled to Basic Pay, Full medical benefits, Housing or BAH housing allowance, BAS or Basic allowance for sustenance... not gonna happen...

The program would HAVE to be something like this:

1 - limited in scope to say no more than 30-40 thousand men or women per year no more than that - period.

2 - commitment would have to be for 6 years (boot camp + training can take some time and 1 year is a ridiculous time frame) plus there has to be some commitment for the reward at the end.

3 - Applicant must be able to SPEAK, UNDERSTAND, READ and WRITE ENGLISH - we are talking about the US military here where we CANNOT let language cause confusion and get people killed.

4 - must be able to pass same entrance qualifications as everyone else - physical and medical and criminal (cannot be special quals for them).

5 - Would be split up between the Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps based on the needs of the service component, which would be decided in a lottery type system (meaning the individual would NOT have a choice) and the individual would have to complete the basic training and school of that service like everyone else. at no time would applicants be eligible for entrance to the US coast Guard.

6 - Since most of the people entering under this program would have almost zero chance of obtaining a security clearance the program could only be used to fill jobs that do not require access to sensitive items, information or areas - period.

7 - all members in this program would be required to Train, deploy, PT, and go to war if necessary just like the rest of us, and be held to the standards of the UCMJ without question just like the rest of us.

8 - all members must swear allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and take the Same oath of enlistment that the rest of us have taken since 1789.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

9 - regardless of education level no member of this program will be granted access to become a commissioned officer in the US armed forces until completion of initial 6 year commitment.

After the member has completed 6 years of honorable service they can apply for (and should be granted) immediate US citizenship. After the citizenship process has been completed they can then sponsor their families on the road to US citizenship as well just like the rest of us.

In order to continue military service member Must re-enlist as a US citizen in given branch of service (retaining all ranks, awards earned in initial 6 year service period). if the member does not wish to gain citizenship they will not be allowed to re-enter military service but shall be granted a permanent resident status with working permission immediately and discharged honorably.

Just my thoughts..

Last edited by agwood (2007-07-01 22:34:49)