BF2S Forums Why are Europeans obsessed with The United States of America?

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Larkin wrote:

I'm enclined to agree. US foreign policy sucks hard.

GJ in Africa Europe....

Why the fuck should we care about Africa? Africa is the responsibility of Africans? Send them some food and money sure but intervention? Good luck with that!!! LOL

Did Europe not leave the place a mess?

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Why the fuck should we care about Africa? Africa is the responsibility of Africans? Send them some food and money sure but intervention? Good luck with that!!! LOL

Did Europe not leave the place a mess?

And what? We should clean up? The UK didn't clean up when they finally got kicked out of the Republic of Ireland and frankly we were just glad to see the back of them: that's what we wanted - self rule and our own country again!

Took you long enough.  FFS.. "Fighting Irish" my ass.

irishtop wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

That was the 19th century though, the age of empires. Then after WWI we all sat down and decided it was all a big mistake. Then got rid of them.

M.O.A.B wrote:

They did far worse things, just no-one cares about that anymore.

buLLet_t00th wrote:

Thats just stupid, that was then and this is now. None of us were alive when that whole Empire thing was in its infancy, we're alive now and the US has adopted a slightly different type of policy. How can your point be valid in any way?

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject. I don't care what happened in the past. (with regards to debating current world issues (generally speaking)) What matters is what's going on at the moment.

yes the past does matter. no one moment can be un-influenced by the past. every country that has been a world power has been criticized for god knows what during their "reign of power" and this is the US turn in that spot. This time will end eventualy as it has for every other country and we will all move on to be complaing about some other country. So just dont worry yourselves so much about what we do and worry about what you do.

No I know. I tried to distinguish between the two in the above post. But I'm talking about taking one random event from history and saying it's hypocritical because of this. It's important to understand the past, but at the same time you can't say we're hypocritical because of something that happened 200 years ago. It's just not relevant.

d4rkst4r wrote:

Poe, just change your title from "Fair and Balanced" to "Hates America"

LOL. Another one immune to the subtle nuances of sarcasm. One born every day.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-04 14:32:10)

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

GJ in Africa Europe....

Why the fuck should we care about Africa? Africa is the responsibility of Africans? Send them some food and money sure but intervention? Good luck with that!!! LOL

Did Europe not leave the place a mess?

Yup.

Pretty much, but quite a few of the countries were left in a good economic state, which then got fucked over by corrupt leaders (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe being a good example - look what Mugabe has done to what was a rich country (although it was Europeans, the RF, who started the descent into chaos)). Corruption plays a huge part too. India have managed fairly well.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-07-04 14:35:59)

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Tell me now. I want to know why European governments and certain people in Europe are so goddamned concerned about The United States of America?

LIKE OMGZ CUZ WE TOTALLY PWNZ0RZ3D THEM IN DA AMERICAN REVOLUTION LOLZ!!!111!!1!11

CameronPoe wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Why the fuck should we care about Africa? Africa is the responsibility of Africans? Send them some food and money sure but intervention? Good luck with that!!! LOL

I must agree with Usmarine.  European colonialism in Africa in the 19th century specially led to what Africa is now.  Africa was almost entirely occupied by European Countries, drawing the current borders of today African countries without taking care of different ethnic groups living together in small territories under the rule of a puppet.  Pretty much, all the ethnic problems of Africa come from European colonialism.

Of course. But now it is their responsibility to sort out the boys from the men. There were no borders before the Europeans arrived - just tribal regions - Africans need to conduct whatever wars need to be conducted in order to settle the continent into a political equilibrium of their choosing. Every other continent on earth has done so - it is ironic that the 'oldest' is the last to finish the job.... They need to become politically mature and that must take place at their own pace.

So, why should Africans have to make borders for their countries when they just used to own tribal land? Its their land let them do what they want with it. Besides I highly doubt a few more wars in a few of the many countries in Africa is going to settle the political equilibrium of the continent, that's basically wishful thinking.

CameronPoe wrote:

Of course. But now it is their responsibility to sort out the boys from the men. There were no borders before the Europeans arrived - just tribal regions - Africans need to conduct whatever wars need to be conducted in order to settle the continent into a political equilibrium of their choosing. Every other continent on earth has done so - it is ironic that the 'oldest' is the last to finish the job.... They need to become politically mature and that must take place at their own pace.

Because the Middle East has solved the problems caused by BP drawing the map! /sarcasm

RAIMIUS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Of course. But now it is their responsibility to sort out the boys from the men. There were no borders before the Europeans arrived - just tribal regions - Africans need to conduct whatever wars need to be conducted in order to settle the continent into a political equilibrium of their choosing. Every other continent on earth has done so - it is ironic that the 'oldest' is the last to finish the job.... They need to become politically mature and that must take place at their own pace.

Because the Middle East has solved the problems caused by BP drawing the map! /sarcasm

I'm saying they need to redraw their borders as they see fit. The problem in the middle east is that some, very late in the day, decided that it would be a good idea to throw a Jewish state into the mix (of course I'm being over-simplistic).

US war budget = 38xx Billions !? thats insane, well in my mind it is, spend so much money on war insteed of preventing it, i'm thinking back in the 70-80´s the US was providing the Afgan's ( an binladen ? ) with weapons and intel against the USSR.
So i dont think US only contributes to the world when the former goverment is partly guilty in how the world are at this moment,
Agian i think back to the 90´s when the US defended Kuwait. they went in to irak, but didt have the man power to go find saddam then... UN made restrictions http://www.un.org/documents/sc/res/1992/scres92.htm<-- check, "the free world" was against trade. But still they/we didt do anything so irak got set 50 year back in time.

It's to big to cover. I have nothing agianst USA or any other contry. I dont have the full story, only what i know from TV & documentaries.

But still i respect & understand why the coalition is in Irak & afgan.
May the forces stay save and free. Come home to your Families.

Danorge over & out.

Last edited by Danorge (2007-07-04 17:02:16)

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Tell me now. I want to know why European governments and certain people in Europe are so goddamned concerned about The United States of America? A nation that lies several thousands of miles away from European  territory. Enlighten me. The plethora of “ The United States of America sucks“  threads at the moment is mind-boggling - I haven't seen anything about The United States of America on the TV for a while so I can only imagine that European TV is bombarding its citizens with propaganda to legitimize more Anti-American action. Let's remember that The United States of America is a democracy in North America which whilst being an Multi Cultural Society  is remarkably progressive, with female politicians, doctors, lawyers, a highly educated middle class and the freedom to practice any religions and none are enshrined in their legal systems. Before you post please scan your response for any inherent double standards please. Notable things to keep in mind: Any country that can match  The United States of America’s contributions to the world.

Just look at the way the USA treated France and the UK differently in the last 5 years   

my question to you is why shouldn't we be worried and interested in whats happening if it effects us?

Kmarion wrote:

The primary goal has been to prove that the United States is as cruel and corrupt as they themselves have been. When your heritage is genocide,

Obviously the systematic destruction of the aboriginal peoples of North America along with their customs and languages is something other than genocide.

Kmarion wrote:

wars of aggression,

Because Vietnam, the Bay of Pigs, Operation Ajax in Iran, mining of ships in Nicaraguan harbors, the invasion of Greneda and the current war in Iraq never happened and if you claim they did you're obviously either sympathetic to or one of those European moral delinquents.

Kmarion wrote:

or cowardly surrender

And of course we all know that the entire nation of France threw in the towel during WWII. They just sat out the whole war until the Allies liberated them. And all those Allied fliers who went down in occupied France rescued themselves with no help at all. Nobody blew up ammo dumps, nobody derailed German supply trains, nobody relayed info about defensive positions at Normandy to the Allies, the Vichy government never had to create paramilitary units to deal with French partisans and the thirty or so different groups involved in the French Resistance movement are obviously just figments of the fevered imagination of some brie-chewing latte-slurping revisionist historian.

Kmarion wrote:

the record of the United States can be pretty hard to bear.

No, trust me on this one, it's a combination of the arrogance in which the record is usually recited along with big chunks of very ugly moments in American history that get left out of the record that tends to be unbearable.

Kmarion wrote:

The old powers cannot avoid measuring themselves against us, but the disparities they discover are so great that Europe's Moral delinquents can not help but comfort themselves with lies about our clumsiness, our violence, and our crudity.

The old powers have their own problems. Italy still courts old-school fascists. Germany uses its anti-Nazi laws to attack anti-Nazis (figure that one out if you can). France is choking itself with xenophobic paranoia, demanding new arrivals assimilate into their culture while telling those new arrivals that they're savage and backwards and incapable of assimilation. England is becoming the most surveiled nation on the globe, with more remote cameras per capita than anywhere else in the world. Unfortunately all of their failings piled together still do not negate the failings of the United States and its government. Hundreds of years of empire-building bloodshed, cultural snobbery and general avaricious greed can't erase a single black mark on the record of the United States. You don't make a wrong thing right by screaming "But they did/do bad shit too!!!!" or by haranguing everyone about all the good things you do.

Kmarion wrote:

Perhaps they should stop and ask themselves how could such a pathetic mediocrities built the richest, most powerful exemplary society in history.

Richest? Possibly. Powerful? Definitley. Exemplary? Sorry, not buying it. An exemplary society wouldn't have produced things like the School of the Americas, funded a glorified gang of narcoterrorists in Nicaragua, sided with some of the worst dictatorial thugs in history or overthrown legitimate sovereign governments in the interests of American business or government. Not to mention that whole period of time when certain human beings were seen as property and not people and eventually necessitated a fucking war to resolve the issue.

Kmarion wrote:

Sorry for the paste, but it is at least the third time we have been through this.

No apology necessary. I've quite enjoyed taking a big ol' chainsaw of history to this tangled mass of rhetoric. And that's all it is really. A bunch of stern-sounding pseudo-historical tripe wrapped around a core of "Well they're just jealous, that's all!". That's really one of America's biggest problems; the dismissal of any criticism as either sour grapes from outsiders jealous of our success or from people who hate America because their liberal hippie commie pinko college professors told them to.

We are, at this moment, not the greatest nation we could be. We never will be as long as we refuse to acknowledge and correct our failings and wrongdoing. It is the greatest lesson we have not learned from the other world powers. We cannot fix our mistakes by burying them in the pages of history or by shouting down people who speak of them or by saying "What's done is done".

Last edited by HunterOfSkulls (2007-07-04 23:08:54)