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2007-07-05 08:31:32
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

|BFC|Icenflame wrote:

^ ^ ^ lol... what happened in Vietnam again? :p j/k
After we left Vietnam 3 million people died from the killing fields in Cambodia. 

When we pull back our forces in October of this year we will leave approximately 50,000 troops in the country as a garrison.  They will withdraw outside any major cities into semi-permanent bases.

The reason we are not withdrawing ALL troops is because of two things:

1.  This will give Iran enough of a deterant not to mess with Iraq (they won't try to annex 1/3 of Iraq basically or attack them eventhough they will affect them politically and through terrorist actions).

2.  We will be close enough, operationally, to attack any al-Qaeda bases.  Its unlikely we will be able to disrupt as many al-Qaeda missions because we will no longer be on the street.


I want to know what will happen next March when the shit REALLY hits the fan?  What then another surge?
2007-07-05 08:33:35
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6999

Harmor wrote:

After we left Vietnam 3 million people died from the killing fields in Cambodia.
Not your fault. Not your responsibility. Vietnam is the Vietnamese' responsibility. Cambodia is the Cambodians' responsibility. Neither threatened the US.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-05 08:33:48)

2007-07-05 08:36:37
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7125|Dayton, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

Harmor wrote:

After we left Vietnam 3 million people died from the killing fields in Cambodia.
Not your fault. Not your responsibility. Vietnam is the Vietnamese' responsibility. Cambodia is the Cambodians' responsibility. Neither threatened the US.
Humanity is the humans responsibility.  Fostering genocide through inaction is reprehensible.

If we allow people to kill each other, as long as they stay on their side of the fence, the stench of death still ruins my cook out.  We can not allow people to kill each other just so they can "work out their differences".  Humanity is beyond living by Darwin's laws.

Last edited by KnowMeByTrailOfDead (2007-07-05 08:39:51)

2007-07-05 08:38:29
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6999

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Harmor wrote:

After we left Vietnam 3 million people died from the killing fields in Cambodia.
Not your fault. Not your responsibility. Vietnam is the Vietnamese' responsibility. Cambodia is the Cambodians' responsibility. Neither threatened the US.
Humanity is the humans responsibility.  Fostering genocide through inaction is reprehensible.
Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
2007-07-05 08:40:05
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7065|London, England

CameronPoe wrote:

... will the UK, Australia and the rest of the 'coalition of the drilling' remain in Iraq and continue the good fight for justice, peace, equality and harmony there?

lol
If anything, they will pull out before the U.S
2007-07-05 08:45:06
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7125|Dayton, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Not your fault. Not your responsibility. Vietnam is the Vietnamese' responsibility. Cambodia is the Cambodians' responsibility. Neither threatened the US.
Humanity is the humans responsibility.  Fostering genocide through inaction is reprehensible.
Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
Be assured, if we had a military with enough man power to attempt to calm those situations, then I would fully support  the effort, but we can only do one at a time, I am not prepared to turn on back on this situation to allow it to escalate to those levels.  Until people realize that religion and race do not justify murder, then we souled be involved, every civil nation should be.  I would love to see the Chines get involved.
2007-07-05 09:06:56
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6999

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:


Humanity is the humans responsibility.  Fostering genocide through inaction is reprehensible.
Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
Be assured, if we had a military with enough man power to attempt to calm those situations, then I would fully support  the effort, but we can only do one at a time, I am not prepared to turn on back on this situation to allow it to escalate to those levels.  Until people realize that religion and race do not justify murder, then we souled be involved, every civil nation should be.  I would love to see the Chines get involved.
That wouldn't be my ethos at all. Help out a neighbour militarily maybe, help out those less forunate elsewhere financially and humanitarianly maybe, but military intervention in distant regions with different cultures, at different stages of development from the west: no thanks.
2007-07-05 09:07:18
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7025|SE London

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:


Humanity is the humans responsibility.  Fostering genocide through inaction is reprehensible.
Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
Be assured, if we had a military with enough man power to attempt to calm those situations, then I would fully support  the effort, but we can only do one at a time, I am not prepared to turn on back on this situation to allow it to escalate to those levels.  Until people realize that religion and race do not justify murder, then we souled be involved, every civil nation should be.  I would love to see the Chines get involved.
Getting involved in the domestic affairs of other countries is almost always a very bad idea. Best to just stay out of all of them.


In any case, I can't imagine the US doing anything about the Saudis ever. They love them. Also the Saudi military is armed to the teeth (Typhoons, Challenger 2s, M1A2s - they've got proper kit and lots of it). What blame did the Saudis get for 9/11? Not a lot, despite the fact Saudis had more ties to the plot than anyone else.
2007-07-05 09:16:27
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6667|Escea

Bertster7 wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
Be assured, if we had a military with enough man power to attempt to calm those situations, then I would fully support  the effort, but we can only do one at a time, I am not prepared to turn on back on this situation to allow it to escalate to those levels.  Until people realize that religion and race do not justify murder, then we souled be involved, every civil nation should be.  I would love to see the Chines get involved.
Getting involved in the domestic affairs of other countries is almost always a very bad idea. Best to just stay out of all of them.


In any case, I can't imagine the US doing anything about the Saudis ever. They love them. Also the Saudi military is armed to the teeth (Typhoons, Challenger 2s, M1A2s - they've got proper kit and lots of it). What blame did the Saudis get for 9/11? Not a lot, despite the fact Saudis had more ties to the plot than anyone else.
The Saudi's have Chally's? I thought Oman was the only other place that used them. They use P-90's as well.
2007-07-05 10:11:18
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7125|Dayton, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Afraid not. Otherwise people would be taking proper action in Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and numerous other places. I appreciate your sentiment but frankly it's BS.
Be assured, if we had a military with enough man power to attempt to calm those situations, then I would fully support  the effort, but we can only do one at a time, I am not prepared to turn on back on this situation to allow it to escalate to those levels.  Until people realize that religion and race do not justify murder, then we souled be involved, every civil nation should be.  I would love to see the Chines get involved.
That wouldn't be my ethos at all. Help out a neighbour militarily maybe, help out those less fortunate elsewhere financially and humanitarian maybe, but military intervention in distant regions with different cultures, at different stages of development from the west: no thanks.
Oops, sorry, you are right.  Because their culture is different we should let them kill each other.  For a minute there I thought you had an interest in protecting Human life.  I guess we can (should) only protect the ones that some how manage to escape and get a brief reprieve before we send them back as illegal immigrants.

Maybe we should use the same theory with people we throw in jail.  We should just let them kill each other because that is what they know.  Lets just remove the guards (peace keepers) and let Darwin take care of the rest.

Last edited by KnowMeByTrailOfDead (2007-07-05 10:14:00)

2007-07-05 10:15:23
AAFCptKabbom
Member
+127|7102|WPB, FL. USA

CameronPoe wrote:

... will the UK, Australia and the rest of the 'coalition of the drilling' remain in Iraq and continue the good fight for justice, peace, equality and harmony there?

lol
However, to answer the question within your statement and sarcasm - No.  Considering how the dynamics have changed in Iraq and since the U.S. is in the lead role it's obvious that ALL other coalition forces would withdraw from Iraq.  There are many scenarios in which coalition forces will draw down.  The one we all should not allow to happen is leaving over public opinion.  Considering that all the facts point to an all out civil and religious war in Iraq - and that my friend is worth staying and preventing (ever heard of "the thin blue line" well change it to desert camo). 
Would it not be best to put a more positive effort in helping to prevent a civil war and giving Iraq a chance to stand on it's own or would you rather the coalition bailout and find out how bad it could get.  It's time to get past how we got there and stop giving the extremest hope.

Considering that you are being sarcastic and biased, as usual, BF2S should really give you your own topic called "CameronPoe's Rants and Biased Opinions" and ban you from "Debate and Serious Talk" - you really can't be taken seriously.
2007-07-05 10:18:32
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7087

agent146 wrote:

but if we withdraw....that means WE LOSE!!!
we?  I didnt see any Canadians over there.  dont speak on things that dont effect you, youngin. "We"....get real.
2007-07-05 10:20:43
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7045|132 and Bush

I hope so.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-07-05 14:20:42
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

That wouldn't be my ethos at all. Help out a neighbour militarily maybe, help out those less forunate elsewhere financially and humanitarianly maybe, but military intervention in distant regions with different cultures, at different stages of development from the west: no thanks.
Perhaps if your country, Ireland, had that capability and the public to support it then you could see yourself helping if you can.

Americans is the most generous country.  Many of us want others to aspire to what we are. 


Perhaps this analogy may help:

If you see someone drowning in the middle of a freezing lake and you had a jet ski while everyone else is standing on shore, would you not help?


We have the jet ski (a powerful military), with plenty of gas (a strong economy that allows us to spend $300/billion a year on our military).


Now the next question is SHOULD we help?  Or if our help actually makes the situation worst (i.e. leaving Vietnam).
2007-07-05 14:23:47
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6897|Ontario, Canada

CameronPoe wrote:

... will the UK, Australia and the rest of the 'coalition of the drilling' remain in Iraq and continue the good fight for justice, peace, equality and harmony there?

lol
No, since their leaders were practically forced in by Bush. Besides, didn't you all start evacuating troops a long time ago from Iraq?
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
2007-07-05 14:34:00
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6897|Ontario, Canada

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

oug wrote:

lowing wrote:

I can explain it simply: Being in Iraq has nothing to with global terrorism. Leaving Iraq will not bring global peace or end the jihad.
I totally agree. But I don't know which jihad you're talking about. Who has called for a jihad, and against whom?

Oh but it is the war, in the sense that there is no bigger picture (war on terror style) of which this battle is a front.
It is the major front now yes, but the war wages all over the world.

I was under the impression jihad was called by AL-Quida. Or did I miss something
It isn't too hard to fight real terrorism. It's called immigration control, monitoring suspect activities and 'not letting people with boxcutters onto planes'. Iraq does nothing to prevent terrorism taking place in the west. Nothing whatsoever. A lot of the terror activity in the UK is entirely domestic - so Iraq does nothing to prevent that. Terror activity in the US is almost entirely at the hands of visitors - so controlling your borders and policing your country should solve that. There will always be terror. Thankfully setting oneself alight and driving a high quality vehicle into a doorway doesn't get you very far.... lol
Well isn't the US starting to realize that some Muslim's born in America are starting up some terrorist activities? (I'm not 100% sure)
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
2007-07-05 14:39:51
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7087
a withdrawal from Iraq will not mean a military defeat.  Combat operations in Iraq are always one sided.  The fight is always being won.   An American withdrawal from Iraq would be a defeat for the administration and foreign policy.  The insurgency can not kick out the coalition, not a chance.  The unpopularity of the war is the only thing will give the insurgent his victory.
2007-07-05 14:43:12
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7087

d4rkst4r wrote:

Well isn't the US starting to realize that some Muslim's born in America are starting up some terrorist activities? (I'm not 100% sure)
Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols werent muslim.  The Simbianese Liberation army was a bunch of criminals, not immigrants.  The Ku-Klux-Klan,  the majority of gangbangers in city streets......

I would say that the majority of terrorist acts commited in this country's history have been from home grown, born and raised Americans.  Criminals, no doubt, but American never the less.
2007-07-05 14:46:08
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

d4rkst4r wrote:

Well isn't the US starting to realize that some Muslim's born in America are starting up some terrorist activities? (I'm not 100% sure)
Yes...'homegrown' terrorism is starting to rear its ugly head.  The 2nd generation of terrorists are coming of age.

Several of the Fort Dix Six came to this country as children when they entered into the United States from Mexico in Texas. 

The difference is that in this country we have less disaffectived youth.  There also isn't as much segregation (i.e. UK) or cultural intolerance (i.e. France), so generally they integrate and live the 'American way of Life'.

I'm sure many would-be terrorists came to the realization that they have it better if they don't kill themselves because they have the opportunity to succeed.  In the middle east their is a bleak outlook on the future, thus less to live for.



I know I'm no longer homicidal extremist Muslim because of the opportunities available to me.

Last edited by Harmor (2007-07-05 14:46:40)

2007-07-05 14:46:26
_1_MAN-ARMY.17
Member
+27|6664|Turkey
if America withdraws than Turkey will go into northern Iraq to end the terrorism in east Turkey
2007-07-05 14:47:52
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7087
maybe they could go kill some more Armenians
2007-07-05 14:47:53
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

_1_MAN-ARMY.17 wrote:

if America withdraws than Turkey will go into northern Iraq to end the terrorism in east Turkey
Which is exactly why we are going to be leaving 50,000 troops as a garrison when we withdraw in October.
2007-07-05 14:50:29
_1_MAN-ARMY.17
Member
+27|6664|Turkey

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

maybe they could go kill some more Armenians
i dont care about Armenians i care about the damn terrorists
2007-07-05 14:51:56
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7087

_1_MAN-ARMY.17 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

maybe they could go kill some more Armenians
i dont care about Armenians i care about the damn terrorists
hey, the same guys you consider terrorist, so do we.  Just Turkey might over step their boundaries a bit with the rest of the Kurds...not like they have a history of it or anything
2007-07-05 14:54:04
Villain{NY}
Banned
+44|6788|New York
I personally don't think the U.S. will ever leave Iraq no matter how stable it will become.  We'll have a huge Embassy there, which is under construction, and almost certainly an airbase.

If the U.S. was to leave Iraq right now it would be the equivalent of a dam breaking as all the insurgents, terrorists, or whatever would flood into the region from many different countries to exploit the vacuum of power and gain influence with the Iraqi people or simply exert their will over them.  It would also severely undermine the confidence other countries have in the U.S. and portray us as weak and unwilling to fight for a cause.  If the U.S. was to leave I don't think our other allies could handle the surge in violence that would result, and would either have to withdraw or commit to an all out invasion of the desert country, which in itself is a huge gamble and would be very unpopular among the citizens of the country willing to commit to such a plan.

Last edited by Villain{NY} (2007-07-05 14:55:37)

 

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